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US Blames Tech for Hospital Strike. But There’s More To The Story

Rogue Valley

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US Blames Tech for Hospital Strike. But There’s More To The Story

The redacted investigation report reveals that the AC-130U crew got disoriented, ignored rules of engagement, and didn’t listen to a warning....


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joG

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Simpleχity;1065822442 said:
US Blames Tech for Hospital Strike. But There’s More To The Story

The redacted investigation report reveals that the AC-130U crew got disoriented, ignored rules of engagement, and didn’t listen to a warning....


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War is always a brutal mess. But it must sometimes be executed. In such a situation, we probably have made a mistake in hampering ourselves with too restrictive rules of engagement that we should probably rethink.
Later, when responsibility for the security of populations and nations has been transferred to an international organization that robustly and reliably enforces this in general form, we can go back to a more costly regimen of such engagement rules.
 

notquiteright

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War is always a brutal mess. But it must sometimes be executed. In such a situation, we probably have made a mistake in hampering ourselves with too restrictive rules of engagement that we should probably rethink. Later, when responsibility for the security of populations and nations has been transferred to an international organization that robustly and reliably enforces this in general form, we can go back to a more costly regimen of such engagement rules.

Interesting spin, as in standing reality on it's head to beat a favorite dead horse... ;)

For our forces this isn't all out war where civilian casualties are to be ignored in a total war scenario. This is a hot mess we seem to always find ourselves in- a 'small war' with mixed civilian/terrorist populations.

The rules weren't too restrictive- they were ignored. Sloppy work, poor command and control lead to this... :peace
 

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Yes, there is more to the story, and it's right at the beginning of the story--the war was brought under fraud and deception. Fraud vitiates all honor or moral strength.
 

joG

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Interesting spin, as in standing reality on it's head to beat a favorite dead horse... ;)

For our forces this isn't all out war where civilian casualties are to be ignored in a total war scenario. This is a hot mess we seem to always find ourselves in- a 'small war' with mixed civilian/terrorist populations.

The rules weren't too restrictive- they were ignored. Sloppy work, poor command and control lead to this... :peace

Had the rules not been so restrictive, we would not now be discussing this and RT would not have had a field day.
 

lpast

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Interesting spin, as in standing reality on it's head to beat a favorite dead horse... ;)

For our forces this isn't all out war where civilian casualties are to be ignored in a total war scenario. This is a hot mess we seem to always find ourselves in- a 'small war' with mixed civilian/terrorist populations.

The rules weren't too restrictive- they were ignored. Sloppy work, poor command and control lead to this... :peace

I dont think either of you are right, one blames rules the other blames lack of following rules.

Once the military is ordered to wage war those waging war couldnt care less about GOP and Democrat. They have three concerns staying alive, winning and staying alive.

The enemy uses it own as human shield with no regard for their lives. We have been waging war in the middleeast since a week after Sept 9, 2001, 15 full years. The bad incidents and mistakes are been incredibly few and unfortunate as they are and considering the type of combat our enemies are waging and their flagrant disregard for their peoples lives. I submit terrorists have murdered and the cause of the death of many of the people our military is accused of. I am not in the camp of vilifying our own until its proven there was negligence or intent.
 

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War is always a brutal mess. But it must sometimes be executed. In such a situation, we probably have made a mistake in hampering ourselves with too restrictive rules of engagement that we should probably rethink.
Later, when responsibility for the security of populations and nations has been transferred to an international organization that robustly and reliably enforces this in general form, we can go back to a more costly regimen of such engagement rules.

Stupid doctors shouldn't have been there anyway. They knew the risks and got what they deserved!
 

notquiteright

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Had the rules not been so restrictive, we would not now be discussing this and RT would not have had a field day.

Ah so if there are no rules then we will never have a problem.... :doh

But fact is this isn't WWII, this is a small scale 3rd party hot mess where our troops were not under direct fire. The story is simple- error on many parts equaled a hospital being attacked... :peace
 

notquiteright

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I dont think either of you are right, one blames rules the other blames lack of following rules. Once the military is ordered to wage war those waging war couldnt care less about GOP and Democrat. They have three concerns staying alive, winning and staying alive. The enemy uses it own as human shield with no regard for their lives. We have been waging war in the middleeast since a week after Sept 9, 2001, 15 full years. The bad incidents and mistakes are been incredibly few and unfortunate as they are and considering the type of combat our enemies are waging and their flagrant disregard for their peoples lives. I submit terrorists have murdered and the cause of the death of many of the people our military is accused of. I am not in the camp of vilifying our own until its proven there was negligence or intent.

Who vilified??? You need to look that word up.

Our military isn't at 'war' (the kind that gives a fig leaf of cover to killing civilians instead of bad guys), but providing some air support for a dirty little civil war where we don't have direct ground contact. Fact is the entire process was broken from top to bottom on this. Vilify- no. But some sort of punishment should and was meted out... :peace
 

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Who vilified??? You need to look that word up.

Our military isn't at 'war' (the kind that gives a fig leaf of cover to killing civilians instead of bad guys), but providing some air support for a dirty little civil war where we don't have direct ground contact. Fact is the entire process was broken from top to bottom on this. Vilify- no. But some sort of punishment should and was meted out... :peace

Ok we have a misque:) and it was probably me. I support our miltary and our troops fully every minute of every day 365 days a year.

The boots on the ground are only there because a civilian ordered them to go there and still there because no one has ordered them out. If you disagree blame the whitehouse. If theres a mistake made then whoever made it should pay a price based on the facts of the event.

I wish there was no war I wish there were no flag draped coffins I wish I wish I wish and all it is is wishing. The white house the congress creates the wars and continues them endlessly. Everything Obama said he would do, close Gitmo etc hasnt happened. So we have 8 yrs of bush war and now 8 more of Obamas and 16 yrs later its still raging and we still have civilan shield dieing.
How can there not be mistakes made our troops are doing tour after tour after tour.
 

notquiteright

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Ok we have a misque:) and it was probably me. I support our miltary and our troops fully every minute of every day 365 days a year. The boots on the ground are only there because a civilian ordered them to go there and still there because no one has ordered them out. If you disagree blame the whitehouse. If theres a mistake made then whoever made it should pay a price based on the facts of the event. I wish there was no war I wish there were no flag draped coffins I wish I wish I wish and all it is is wishing. The white house the congress creates the wars and continues them endlessly. Everything Obama said he would do, close Gitmo etc hasnt happened. So we have 8 yrs of bush war and now 8 more of Obamas and 16 yrs later its still raging and we still have civilan shield dieing. How can there not be mistakes made our troops are doing tour after tour after tour.

What branch of the military and MOS did you do service? I was army, 11bush (the guys who get sent to be what now is called boots on the ground). I get the 24/7 365 'support' thing but that doesn't excuse piss poor performance. It doesn't give blanket immunity to kill innocent civilians in a hospital. This wasn't a civilian shield dying- this was a hospital targeted when it never should have been.

it is interesting to read the conflicting theories- BushII shouldn't have jumped but now Obama was castrated for not sending in thousands of troops to stop the rise of ISIL. Shoulda jumped into Libya, shoulda stayed out. The bad ol' Mooslems are gonna kill us all, leave the Mooslems to sort themselves out. Invade Saudi Arabia, leave the ME entirely...

Just where do we pack it back up and leave the hot mess BushII created to others for the clean-up? :peace
 

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Stupid doctors shouldn't have been there anyway. They knew the risks and got what they deserved!

Yeah, and the patients too! They should have become wounded and sent to a DIFFERENT hospital. ;)
 

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Stupid doctors shouldn't have been there anyway. They knew the risks and got what they deserved!

And now they are martyrs and that must be worth something.
 

joG

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Ah so if there are no rules then we will never have a problem.... :doh

But fact is this isn't WWII, this is a small scale 3rd party hot mess where our troops were not under direct fire. The story is simple- error on many parts equaled a hospital being attacked... :peace

Nope. Wrong. We have a problem no matter, what the rules are. It is only that the rules seem to make it
1) more expensive to deal with the problem
2) less likely that we will get a new structure for the solution of the problem, if we keep the present rules.

And, you know, it is our money and our kids that have died because of the inappropriate rules.
 

apdst

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It was an accident. These things happen in war.
 

Thoreau72

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It was an accident. These things happen in war.

Not when the war is brought under fraud and deception. When that happens, deception becomes the driving force as the lie must be constantly supported and repeated.
 

apdst

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Not when the war is brought under fraud and deception. When that happens, deception becomes the driving force as the lie must be constantly supported and repeated.

Doesn't matter. These things happen in war.
 

Thoreau72

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Doesn't matter. These things happen in war.

Yes, I think anybody that's ever been there understands that **** happens in war. For that matter, **** happens in life all the time. The bumper sticker in Forrest Gump showed us all that.

But when a war is brought under fraud, deception is already in play, so the moral standard is so much lower.
 

braindrain

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Yes, I think anybody that's ever been there understands that **** happens in war. For that matter, **** happens in life all the time. The bumper sticker in Forrest Gump showed us all that.

But when a war is brought under fraud, deception is already in play, so the moral standard is so much lower.

So was the deception the nuclear bombs that took down the twin towers. That one is one of your fairy tales I like the most. Mainly because it is so completely void of any facts.
 

Deuce

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It was an accident. These things happen in war.

They do. And when they happen, civilized and moral people are obligated to ask how and why. And to see if they can find a way to make these mistakes less often.

When an airliner crashes, nobody shrugs their shoulders and says "well, **** happens!" We have an entire organization devoted to figuring out the how and the why.
 

apdst

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They do. And when they happen, civilized and moral people are obligated to ask how and why. And to see if they can find a way to make these mistakes less often.

When an airliner crashes, nobody shrugs their shoulders and says "well, **** happens!" We have an entire organization devoted to figuring out the how and the why.

Mechanical failures and the fog of war are two totally different things.
 

Deuce

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Mechanical failures and the fog of war are two totally different things.

Mechanical failures?

Most plane crashes are caused by human errors. And even if you think my example is not a good one, the point still stands and you haven't responded to it.
 

apdst

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Mechanical failures?

Most plane crashes are caused by human errors. And even if you think my example is not a good one, the point still stands and you haven't responded to it.

It still doesn't compare to the fog of war. The only way to prevent accidents on the battlefield is to not have a war. Of there's a war, there will be mistakes.
 

Deuce

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It still doesn't compare to the fog of war. The only way to prevent accidents on the battlefield is to not have a war. Of there's a war, there will be mistakes.

This doesn't remotely respond to my point either. Nobody is suggesting all mistakes can be eliminated.
 
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