Unpaid internships should be abolished.

[samsmart]

And what businesses did you run? This is highly important considering the nature of America's economy.

Just as which career fields require unpaid internships versus paid internships is highly important as well.

 

[specklebang]

As I said in my post, I had 5 different ventures at different times in my life. What does that have to do with "America's economy"? I'm not evading your question, just trying to understand it so my response is appropriate. Only 1 of my businesses was overseas (Korea). My first one. Then I moved to Las Vegas and the others were over a period of almost 40 years.

And what businesses did you run? This is highly important considering the nature of America's economy.

 

[specklebang]

Aren't we discussing political internships where you work for a Senator or similar?

An internship at a gas station wouldn't be very valuable.

Just as which career fields require unpaid internships versus paid internships is highly important as well.

 

[Zalatix]

Of course, they're not apprenticeships but he principle Of trading work for experience is the foundation of both. ID have thought reasonably intelligent people would understand the comparison for that reason. The rest of your vitriolic hyperbole was too senseless to warrant a reply

No, you were unable to actually refute the rest of what I said. You lack the skill to defend your simplistic right wing platitudes when they are challenged.

Your misuse of the word 'apprenticeship' was more egregious than you can comprehend. The law concerning unpaid internships states that interns must not perform productive work and the employer must derive no benefit. This makes unpaid internships the exact opposite of apprenticeships. Please familiarize yourself with this basic fact before you reply. Or perhaps it is wiser to declare victory in your mind and to avoid losing further face by not replying at all.

 

[Zalatix]

As I said in my post, I had 5 different ventures at different times in my life. What does that have to do with "America's economy"? I'm not evading your question, just trying to understand it so my response is appropriate. Only 1 of my businesses was overseas (Korea). My first one. Then I moved to Las Vegas and the others were over a period of almost 40 years.

America's economy is not one which has any place for high school dropouts. It is evolving into a knowledge-based economy. In fact when automation hits, the economy will evolve away from paid work altogether.

 

[samsmart]

Aren't we discussing political internships where you work for a Senator or similar?

An internship at a gas station wouldn't be very valuable.

No, as far as I can tell. The article makes no differentiation between internships with a political official and internships with a business.

 

[specklebang]

First you complain about unpaid internships (education) and then you say that education is imperative. A wee bit contradictory, no?

I still don't know what you are asking me though. What difference does it make what business I was in? I'm living proof you don't need an education. I'm not suggesting it, just pointing out why it would be advisable to get an internship.

You do know that soe people are self-employed. Why do they need an education? Wouldn't connections be more valuable?

But Zalatix, if you get rid of unpaid internships you'll get rid of a great way to beef up your resume to get a job!

Error!!!

NACE - Class of 2013: Paid Interns Outpace Unpaid Peers in Job Offers, Salaries


In other words, if you didn't have an unpaid internship at all and went in without that on your resume, you'd have the same chances of getting a job.

In fact, paid internships have a much better chance of leading to a job!


And you get paid less when you do get a job after doing unpaid internships.

Why is this?

Simple. Because when employers see that you've been previously willing to work for free, they pay you less.

 

[specklebang]

Oh. ****. Oops. I still think I'd go with the internship if it would get me the right connections. I though businesses had apprenticeships and politicians had internships. I trust your opinion.

No, as far as I can tell. The article makes no differentiation between internships with a political official and internships with a business.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Reading some of the response you can see the age old stance by those on the right .... as they bend and twist to reason why this is a good thing.

Corporations comes up with a "con-game".....the right wing goonies know what to do ...start spewing their fart about personal responsibility.

Let's examine the situation .....who's more likely to get suckered into working for free....the poor, the naieve (i.e. immigrants and the young) , and those in dire need for a job. All vulnerable ...and readily exploited by those with money.

Un-paid internship is a fancy term for being one step away from slavery!!

Now imagine ....the government should try this ....let's say the government declares ....every God dam abled body American must do a stint in the military or go to jail!!
How loud would the whine and squeals be from the right?

Wah-wah-wah ....how dare they ask me to fight for my freedoms!! :lamo

 

[samsmart]

Reading some of the response you can see the age old stance by those on the right .... as they bend and twist to reason why this is a good thing.

Corporations comes up with a "con-game".....the right wing goonies know what to do ...start spewing their fart about personal responsibility.

Let's examine the situation .....who's more likely to get suckered into working for free....the poor, the naieve (i.e. immigrants and the young) , and those in dire need for a job. All vulnerable ...and readily exploited by those with money.

Un-paid internship is a fancy term for being one step away from slavery!!

Now imagine ....the government should try this ....let's say the government declares ....every God dam abled body American must do a stint in the military or go to jail!!
How loud would the whine and squeals be from the right?

Wah-wah-wah ....how dare they ask me to fight for my freedoms!! :lamo

Except there's a major difference between internships and conscription and slavery: people don't go to jail if they don't get an internship.

 

[Papa bull]

Except there's a major difference between internships and conscription and slavery: people don't go to jail if they don't get an internship.

They aren't forced to do anything at all. It's strange that some would find work so objectionable that they couldn't imagine anyone volunteering for it and would like to make it impossible to do so.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Except there's a major difference between internships and conscription and slavery: people don't go to jail if they don't get an internship.

Wah-wah-wah ....how dare they ask me to fight for my freedoms!! :2wave:

 

[samsmart]

They aren't forced to do anything at all. It's strange that some would find work so objectionable that they couldn't imagine anyone volunteering for it and would like to make it impossible to do so.

Well, to be fair, interns DO, generally, work hard. And there's a lot of costs involved in an internship, especially transport costs, that they have to pay in order to get that work experience. And, as has been mentioned, an internship is no guarantee of a job offer. And that time spent in an internship is time spent not
looking for a paying job, and so there are opportunity costs that interns suffer.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, as some internships do some good in some career fields, though not all.

 

[Zalatix]

First you complain about unpaid internships (education) and then you say that education is imperative. A wee bit contradictory, no?

Jeez. Once again. You are not allowed to do meaningful work in an unpaid internship. It is not educational. I just explained this to someone else on here. What you're talking about is an apprenticeship - which is the exact opposite. *headdesk*

I still don't know what you are asking me though. What difference does it make what business I was in? I'm living proof you don't need an education. I'm not suggesting it, just pointing out why it would be advisable to get an internship.

It's relevant because the business you started then may be obsolete now.

You do know that soe people are self-employed. Why do they need an education? Wouldn't connections be more valuable?

If you're going to open up a biotech or automation-related company you don't want to be an idiot with connections. In fact I don't see how you're going to make connections to start up a high-tech company without some high-tech smarts.

 

[Papa bull]

Wah-wah-wah ....how dare they ask me to fight for my freedoms!! :2wave:

That made no sense. Did someone kidnap you and make you serve as an unpaid intern or something?

 

[samsmart]

Wah-wah-wah ....how dare they ask me to fight for my freedoms!! :2wave:

You mean your freedom to not take an internship? Which you already have? And nobody is trying to rescind?

 

[Papa bull]

Well, to be fair, interns DO, generally, work hard. And there's a lot of costs involved in an internship, especially transport costs, that they have to pay in order to get that work experience. And, as has been mentioned, an internship is no guarantee of a job offer. And that time spent in an internship is time spent not
looking for a paying job, and so there are opportunity costs that interns suffer.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, as some internships do some good in some career fields, though not all.

I agree. If an intern wants to make the most of it, they WOULD work hard. And there WOULD be transportation costs. And it's all 100% optional and if the intern doesn't think they would benefit from it, then they aren't in any way obliged to participate. People have to weigh their options and make their decisions and doing that is, in and of itself, good training. I would think a young person in college would be capable of handling such a decision without some liberal on a message board making it for them.

 

[washunut]

But Zalatix, if you get rid of unpaid internships you'll get rid of a great way to beef up your resume to get a job!

Error!!!

NACE - Class of 2013: Paid Interns Outpace Unpaid Peers in Job Offers, Salaries


In other words, if you didn't have an unpaid internship at all and went in without that on your resume, you'd have the same chances of getting a job.

In fact, paid internships have a much better chance of leading to a job!


And you get paid less when you do get a job after doing unpaid internships.

Why is this?

Simple. Because when employers see that you've been previously willing to work for free, they pay you less.

Perhaps there is some logic to the statistics cited. It could be that people who take unpaid internships are less qualified than people who get paid.

 

[tererun]

Simple. Because when employers see that you've been previously willing to work for free, they pay you less.

Don't forget that an unpaid internship is basically being a volunteer. People put up with a lot of crap from volunteers because they are free. As an employer i consider volunteer references about as high as a teacher recommendation. Pretty much anyone can get one, and they do not mean anything.

 

[samsmart]

Don't forget that an unpaid internship is basically being a volunteer. People put up with a lot of crap from volunteers because they are free. As an employer i consider volunteer references about as high as a teacher recommendation. Pretty much anyone can get one, and they do not mean anything.

Thats not true at all.

A volunteer gets no training whatsoever. Any training is on the onus of the employer.

But an intern has at least put in the time and effort to stay in college and focus on their major. In fact, internships can only be given to those who are enrolled and seeking a degree.

Interns have the college book learning but lack the real world experience of working for a company. That's what the internship is for.

 

[tererun]

Thats not true at all.

A volunteer gets no training whatsoever. Any training is on the onus of the employer.

Wrong, you give a volunteer training in how to do a job just like you would with any new employee who needs to know procedure. You just do not expect much from them.

But an intern has at least put in the time and effort to stay in college and focus on their major. In fact, internships can only be given to those who are enrolled and seeking a degree.

Interns have the college book learning but lack the real world experience of working for a company. That's what the internship is for.

Again, it is a volunteer position. That book learning thing is great if you are going to be on jeopardy, but really you end up training most employees because they have to learn particular procedures followed by a company, and their education doesn't teach them how to do a job in the way the company wants it done. Maybe in certain specific places an internship might help, but really you are still talking about unpaid volunteers. yes you put a better term on it, but you are not fooling anyone. Plus, staying in college is really more of a matter of avoiding work when you do not get a job while you are there. College is not terribly hard and if you cannot handle it with a job you are pretty much a lazy person looking for a few more years without a job. As an unpaid intern if you show up wasted and go to sleep in a closet no one really cares, but as a paid intern you are expected to start acting professional which is something they do not teach or require in college.

 

[samsmart]

Wrong, you give a volunteer training in how to do a job just like you would with any new employee who needs to know procedure. You just do not expect much from them.


Again, it is a volunteer position. That book learning thing is great if you are going to be on jeopardy, but really you end up training most employees because they have to learn particular procedures followed by a company, and their education doesn't teach them how to do a job in the way the company wants it done. Maybe in certain specific places an internship might help, but really you are still talking about unpaid volunteers. yes you put a better term on it, but you are not fooling anyone. Plus, staying in college is really more of a matter of avoiding work when you do not get a job while you are there. College is not terribly hard and if you cannot handle it with a job you are pretty much a lazy person looking for a few more years without a job. As an unpaid intern if you show up wasted and go to sleep in a closet no one really cares, but as a paid intern you are expected to start acting professional which is something they do not teach or require in college.

Of course you have to train an employee in the corporate culture when you hire them.

But that is far different from giving an employee the technical skills necessary to be employable by a company at all. Which is what college is for.

 

[Moot]

<snip>....And you get paid less when you do get a job after doing unpaid internships.

Why is this?

Simple. Because when employers see that you've been previously willing to work for free, they pay you less.

I think its a matter of "why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?" Or something like that.

 

[tererun]

Of course you have to train an employee in the corporate culture when you hire them.

But that is far different from giving an employee the technical skills necessary to be employable by a company at all. Which is what college is for.

There are a few areas where technical skills you learn in school are beneficial, but really for the most part your college education is useless compared to the experience you get from working and actually doing the job. If you are talking an associates or bachelors degree you are pretty much talking something extremely general with no great knowledge imparted on the student. When you get into a masters and higher there are certain things which they probably learned which will help, but below that it is pretty much a little better than high school. Still, I would say that it is very important to show you can work in a professional environment and accomplish the goals of a job. Being a volunteer simply does not show that.

 

[samsmart]

There are a few areas where technical skills you learn in school are beneficial, but really for the most part your college education is useless compared to the experience you get from working and actually doing the job. If you are talking an associates or bachelors degree you are pretty much talking something extremely general with no great knowledge imparted on the student. When you get into a masters and higher there are certain things which they probably learned which will help, but below that it is pretty much a little better than high school. Still, I would say that it is very important to show you can work in a professional environment and accomplish the goals of a job. Being a volunteer simply does not show that.

Which is why interns aren't volunteers but rather degreed and certified students who are interested enough to be in a career to go to college and learn whatever skills are necessary to succeed at their chosen career field and are willing to work for a time for free in order to garner professional experience.