Unpaid internships should be abolished.

[specklebang]

Yes, yes. You win. My fault. Misunderstood the topic. Completely. Thought we were talking about political internships not giving free labor to a corporation. :3oops: OK?

No doubt my past businesses are obsolete by now. More or less.

Jeez. Once again. You are not allowed to do meaningful work in an unpaid internship. It is not educational. I just explained this to someone else on here. What you're talking about is an apprenticeship - which is the exact opposite. *headdesk*


It's relevant because the business you started then may be obsolete now.


If you're going to open up a biotech or automation-related company you don't want to be an idiot with connections. In fact I don't see how you're going to make connections to start up a high-tech company without some high-tech smarts.

Oh. ****. Oops. I still think I'd go with the internship if it would get me the right connections. I though businesses had apprenticeships and politicians had internships. I trust your opinion.

 

[radcen]

unpaid internships have gone from something to do in college to get a foot in the door to free labor which will get you exactly jack ****. interns should get at least minimum wage if they are doing work.

Bingo. Yes, the employer is imparting knowledge, and knowledge has value, but... the intern is still providing output of their own. Maybe not on the same level as a regular and fully-trained employee, but they wouldn't be being paid as much as a regular fully-trained employee, either.

 

[NoC_T]

But Zalatix, if you get rid of unpaid internships you'll get rid of a great way to beef up your resume to get a job!

Error!!!

NACE - Class of 2013: Paid Interns Outpace Unpaid Peers in Job Offers, Salaries


In other words, if you didn't have an unpaid internship at all and went in without that on your resume, you'd have the same chances of getting a job.

In fact, paid internships have a much better chance of leading to a job!


And you get paid less when you do get a job after doing unpaid internships.

Why is this?

Simple. Because when employers see that you've been previously willing to work for free, they pay you less.

Or the paid interns had other qualifications/experience to offer that made them more desirable. Hence their greater success in attaining employment after their internships. Same reason both instances.

 

[radcen]

Students do internships because it is either required for graduation and/or a way to gain experience and exposure. No one is exactly thrilled about donating their time for free.

Businesses don't pay because they can get away with not paying. Simple as that.

Historical aspects regarding unpaid status aren't really relevant. Times change. Change isn't always good, but it isn't always bad, either. The concept of abusing someone for free work is a concept that should end.

 

[Papa bull]

Students do internships because it is either required for graduation and/or a way to gain experience and exposure. No one is exactly thrilled about donating their time for free.

Businesses don't pay because they can get away with not paying. Simple as that.

Historical aspects regarding unpaid status aren't really relevant. Times change. Change isn't always good, but it isn't always bad, either. The concept of abusing someone for free work is a concept that should end.

I've been in charge of "unpaid interns" before. What it amounted to was mentoring and babysitting. It was a far cry from slave labor. I have no doubt the experience was helpful to those who "worked" for our corporation. They got a feel for how things worked in a corporation, the wide array of tasks being performed, how corporate politics worked, etc. If they opened their mouths and said something foolish, it was good for a laugh and a little red-facing but it wasn't the end of their "career". I don't know... maybe some places us unpaid interns for slave labor, but I can tell you for a fact that this isn't a universal practice. Some corporations like ours felt that it was a responsiblity to mentor them even if we didn't feel like it was necessary to pay them while mentoring them.

 

[radcen]

I've been in charge of "unpaid interns" before. What it amounted to was mentoring and babysitting. It was a far cry from slave labor. I have no doubt the experience was helpful to those who "worked" for our corporation. They got a feel for how things worked in a corporation, the wide array of tasks being performed, how corporate politics worked, etc. If they opened their mouths and said something foolish, it was good for a laugh and a little red-facing but it wasn't the end of their "career". I don't know... maybe some places us unpaid interns for slave labor, but I can tell you for a fact that this isn't a universal practice. Some corporations like ours felt that it was a responsiblity to mentor them even if we didn't feel like it was necessary to pay them while mentoring them.

"Slave labor" is hyperbole, and you won't find me using the phrase, but in my observations and experience interns do actually do work, even if only the most basic and mundane stuff.

 

[Papa bull]

"Slave labor" is hyperbole, and you won't find me using the phrase, but in my observations and experience interns do actually do work, even if only the most basic and mundane stuff.

Without some sort of work it isn't experience at all, so of course some sort of "work" is going to be involved. As in our program we created a "project" for the intern. It wasn't a mission critical project but it was one that had some value of some sort and would give the intern a little bit of a challenge and an opportunity to work with other people in a corporate environment. Some came from neighborhoods where they were not even remotely prepared for a corporate experience. They knew nothing about business or professional behavior and were extremely green. I can tell you for a fact that it was damned good experience for them and I can also tell you for a fact that we didn't make a nickel off their "work". One example was organizing an online documentation repository. They learned how to build a web site, move documents around, how to behave at meetings, how to dress and act and communicate in a corporate environment, how to feel comfortable working around professionals in a global corporation... stuff that you can't learn in school.

But I doubt that we'd have signed up to pay interns to work. We didn't need their work.

 

[Deuce]

"Slave labor" is hyperbole, and you won't find me using the phrase, but in my observations and experience interns do actually do work, even if only the most basic and mundane stuff.

They also routinely do things they aren't technically supposed to do. The rules regarding internship are more strict than most interns are aware of. Or even the business itself might not be aware of it. There are a lot of rules in place to avoid internships becoming just unpaid employees, rules frequently violated.

 

[radcen]

Without some sort of work it isn't experience at all, so of course some sort of "work" is going to be involved. As in our program we created a "project" for the intern. It wasn't a mission critical project but it was one that had some value of some sort and would give the intern a little bit of a challenge and an opportunity to work with other people in a corporate environment. Some came from neighborhoods where they were not even remotely prepared for a corporate experience. They knew nothing about business or professional behavior and were extremely green. I can tell you for a fact that it was damned good experience for them and I can also tell you for a fact that we didn't make a nickel off their "work". One example was organizing an online documentation repository. They learned how to build a web site, move documents around, how to behave at meetings, how to dress and act and communicate in a corporate environment, how to feel comfortable working around professionals in a global corporation... stuff that you can't learn in school.

But I doubt that we'd have signed up to pay interns to work. We didn't need their work.

School is only half of the educational process anyway. I work in civil engineering and by far the most common phrase we hear from newly-minted engineering graduates straight out of school for the first 1 to 2 years is, "They didn't teach us that in school."

 

[Hicup]

What's the big deal? Internship is worth all your years at college learning the "theory".. You can learn more in one year in a real internship than you can in 4 years at college no doubt about it. I'm one of those conservatives that see's brick and mortar colleges going bye bye in the not to distant future! Most of one's college education is spent on learning things that have no practical value in the real world. I say take online courses, and work for free in an internship, or for a small wage. This is the future of education in this country and the world, IMO.

Tim-

 

[soccerboy22]

unpaid internships have gone from something to do in college to get a foot in the door to free labor which will get you exactly jack ****. interns should get at least minimum wage if they are doing work.

I think it would depend on the internship. For example, when I interned at a think tank in DC I was unpaid but in return I was able to go out to dinner with some very high end people and get to experience a lot.

 

[Helix]

I think it would depend on the internship. For example, when I interned at a think tank in DC I was unpaid but in return I was able to go out to dinner with some very high end people and get to experience a lot.

they had upaid interns at the pharmaceutical company i contracted at. they were basically used as free secretaries. it was sad; they were college kids who really wanted a science job there. come to think of it, my "independent contractor" status pretty much sucked, too. you're doing a great job, also, you're fired. labor in this country is not in good shape.

 

[soccerboy22]

they had upaid interns at the pharmaceutical company i contracted at. they were basically used as free secretaries. it was sad; they were college kids who really wanted a science job there. come to think of it, my "independent contractor" status pretty much sucked, too. you're doing a great job, also, you're fired. labor in this country is not in good shape.

I have to say that does suck. I guess stuff like that should probably be more paid, whereas internships like where I had where a person is able to make a ton of connections and dinner for free for would be best unpaid.

 

[Helix]

I have to say that does suck. I guess stuff like that should probably be more paid, whereas internships like where I had where a person is able to make a ton of connections and dinner for free for would be best unpaid.

i could agree to that, certainly.

 

[Mach]

Zalatix knows best for the entire population. We should abolish everything Zalatix wants, and make free anything he wants, because our rights are granted to his by his mercy.

In reality, we're free individually to the point where we have the most advance, most reduction in poverty, highest standards of living, etc., in all such industrialized nations, throughout human history (I'm so tired of typing these basic facts). The way it works is that if someone wants to offer an internship at zero pay, and someone wants to take it, then it's none of your ****ing business, literally, and legally, and ethically.

Remember if you want a government that does whatever authoritarian thing you want, like telling me I can't take, or offer, a free internship, someone who you DON'T agree with will get their pet issues passed as being free, or "abolished", and you'll be all up in protest (I would say up in arms but you may be anti-gun freedoms too). That's why some of us recognize the virtue in a government that tries to protect us both, from each other, but ensuring neither of us interfere with one another's legitimate business.

What's sad is there is even a common use of your same argument, used against gay couples on the gay marriage issue. All these statistics about how more likely gay men are in getting HIV THEREFORE we should prohibit it by law, etc. No one cares what the statistics our, it's their ****ing life and it the externalities are not even approaching the threshold needed to overturn our individual freedom on either of these things.

 

[KevinKohler]

Unpaid internships are just a way to get free labor, and in the process alienate poor and middle class graduates from those companies or careers.


When I graduated, working 30 hours a week for free wasn't in the cards, financially, else I likely would be working for Hallmark. Instead, two mediocre classmates with parents who paid their rent got the spots, after I turned them down.

 

[YoungConserv]

unpaid internships have gone from something to do in college to get a foot in the door to free labor which will get you exactly jack ****. interns should get at least minimum wage if they are doing work.

Then you'll see less internships.

 

[radcen]

Then you'll see less internships.

If all they're doing is non-productive busy-work, I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

 

[YoungConserv]

If all they're doing is non-productive busy-work, I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

But how do you know that's all unpaid internships I did work with non profits and state funded research where there was no money to pay me but it was that field experience that got me the job I have now.

 

[Arbo]

In general, interns don't do anything worth getting paid for. The point is a foot in the door to see what goes on, how things work, etc.

Good lord we have a generation of greedy little people that want to get paid for simply taking a crap.

 

[radcen]

But, if unpaid internships ceased to exist, employers would still need to hire people, so saying "it gave me the job I have now" isn't really relevant. You might have gotten the same job anyway. Or, you might have gotten a different job that would have been as good or better.

 

[Helix]

Then you'll see less internships.

eh, oh well. i don't really mind seeing less completely unpaid work based on the false premise of a future job.

 

[Deuce]

What's the big deal? Internship is worth all your years at college learning the "theory".. You can learn more in one year in a real internship than you can in 4 years at college no doubt about it. I'm one of those conservatives that see's brick and mortar colleges going bye bye in the not to distant future! Most of one's college education is spent on learning things that have no practical value in the real world. I say take online courses, and work for free in an internship, or for a small wage. This is the future of education in this country and the world, IMO.

Tim-

I've yet to see an online education program that was particularly effective.

 

[YoungConserv]

eh, oh well. i don't really mind seeing less completely unpaid work based on the false premise of a future job.

it isn't a promise of a future job it's a chance to better your self to make yourself stand out in the pile of resumes that get dumped on he desks for intro jobs.

 

[Arbo]

I've yet to see an online education program that was particularly effective.

Huh?

The *BEST* classes I ever took were online classes. Why? They didn't waste my time like sitting in a classroom listing to a self absorbed professor did.