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Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

danarhea

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WASHINGTON — A bill to restore unemployment benefits to millions who have been out of work for more than six months has cleared a Senate hurdle.


The 60-40 vote came moments after Carte Goodwin, a successor to West Virginia Democrat Robert Byrd, was sworn in. Goodwin was the crucial 60th senator to defeat a Republican filibuster that has led to a lapse in benefits for 2.5 million people.
Discussion? I would like thoughts on this from both sides.

Article is here.
 

NolaMan

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Discussion? I would like thoughts on this from both sides.

Article is here.
To me it is just a waste of money. Unemployment benefits do not really help the economy. We hear all about how it does because that money is spent, but in reality, all government spending does it kill an equal multiplier effect in the private sector.

Paying people not to work (in the name of economic recovery) is going to get us nowhere. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and with predictions that unemployment will remain high for the coming decade, are we just going to pay out for ten years? I hope the bill fails on the final vote.
 

Cold Highway

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All it will seem to do is continue the dependence people have on it. It does not make things better only worse and in addition will add to the debt since unemployment continues to climb very slowly but its climbing.
 

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So you can now collect unemployment for 2 1/2 years? LOL, wow.

That's not unemployment. That's welfare.
 

danarhea

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To me it is just a waste of money. Unemployment benefits do not really help the economy. We hear all about how it does because that money is spent, but in reality, all government spending does it kill an equal multiplier effect in the private sector.

Paying people not to work (in the name of economic recovery) is going to get us nowhere. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and with predictions that unemployment will remain high for the coming decade, are we just going to pay out for ten years? I hope the bill fails on the final vote.
I agree, but now I must ask another question - What is the difference between extending unemployment and giving billions in bailout money to the banksters?

Could it be that our government is more sympathetic to the banksters?
 

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My out of work cousin who's living off the government now for the past year is probably doing somersaults with joy. She makes just as much by staying home and traveling on her husbands money than she would working. I agree... it's not just welfare it's extended welfare. Imagine - staying on the dole for 2 1/2 years going out and getting some 20K job for a few months and then hopefully getting laid off again. Hopefully Washington can keep up printing the worthless money they'll have to use.
 

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I agree, but now I must ask another question - What is the difference between extending unemployment and giving billions in bailout money to the banksters?

Could it be that our government is more sympathetic to the banksters?
None. Just different verbiage of the same thing. And why can't the unemployment money be taken out of the stimulus money if we must do this?
 

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My out of work cousin who's living off the government now for the past year is probably doing somersaults with joy. She makes just as much by staying home and traveling on her husbands money than she would working. I agree... it's not just welfare it's extended welfare. Imagine - staying on the dole for 2 1/2 years going out and getting some 20K job for a few months and then hopefully getting laid off again. Hopefully Washington can keep up printing the worthless money they'll have to use.
And when that 2 1/2 years is up, would your cousin vote for someone who'd extend another couple of years? Hence, the thought process behind all this.
 

Deuce

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To me it is just a waste of money. Unemployment benefits do not really help the economy. We hear all about how it does because that money is spent, but in reality, all government spending does it kill an equal multiplier effect in the private sector.

Paying people not to work (in the name of economic recovery) is going to get us nowhere. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and with predictions that unemployment will remain high for the coming decade, are we just going to pay out for ten years? I hope the bill fails on the final vote.
A line has to be drawn, but a recession is not the time to do it. Unemployment isn't what is stopping people from working right now, the lack of jobs is. Companies get hundreds of resumes to fill a handful of jobs. Unemployment can be the difference between staying in your home or losing it. People without any income stop buying things entirely, you can't ignore government-generated demand any more than you can ignore privately-generated demand. If unemployment stopped today, what magical part of private industry would fill this demand? Where would all the extra jobs come from?

edit: And a bill that gets 60 votes to beat a filibuster isn't going to lose out to the 51 final vote requirement.
 
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danarhea

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None. Just different verbiage of the same thing. And why can't the unemployment money be taken out of the stimulus money if we must do this?
Why should it be done in the first place? But the banksters already have their billions. How about we extend unemployment benefits and take the money back from the banksters to do it? Just playing a little Devil's advocate here, but it's a funny world that doesn't do anything for workers who get laid off, but keeps the wine and caviar flowing to those who ran their banks and companies into the ground.
 

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A line has to be drawn, but a recession is not the time to do it. Unemployment isn't what is stopping people from working right now, the lack of jobs is. Companies get hundreds of resumes to fill a handful of jobs. Unemployment can be the difference between staying in your home or losing it. People without any income stop buying things entirely, you can't ignore government-generated demand any more than you can ignore privately-generated demand. If unemployment stopped today, what magical part of private industry would fill this demand? Where would all the extra jobs come from?
Many of the unemployed simply won't do the jobs that are available to them. There are jobs out there, but they're "beneath" them.
 

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And when that 2 1/2 years is up, would your cousin vote for someone who'd extend another couple of years? Hence, the thought process behind all this.
Hell yeah she would. The last thing she wants to do is work - she's much happier traveling. Her husband makes decent money as a Chemical Engineer - but she had to find work when he had a stretch when he was working part time and teaching part time. Now that he's full time again --- she requested to be let go to collect unemployment and now she loves it. She claims she makes just as much or close to it staying home and traveling.

Damn skippy she'll vote for whomever would continue this --- she loves being paid for doing nothing.
 

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Many of the unemployed simply won't do the jobs that are available to them. There are jobs out there, but they're "beneath" them.
Many, yes, but the fundamental problem is there are far more unemployed than there are job openings.
 

danarhea

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Many of the unemployed simply won't do the jobs that are available to them. There are jobs out there, but they're "beneath" them.
Seems those honest jobs are beneath the banksters too, but they got their money.
 

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Many, yes, but the fundamental problem is there are far more unemployed than there are job openings.
Can you source that please?
 

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Re: Unemployment bill passes Senate hurdle

You've been beaten!
 

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Why should it be done in the first place? But the banksters already have their billions. How about we extend unemployment benefits and take the money back from the banksters to do it? Just playing a little Devil's advocate here, but it's a funny world that doesn't do anything for workers who get laid off, but keeps the wine and caviar flowing to those who ran their banks and companies into the ground.
All part of our growth-by-acquisition mentality these days. Hey, if profits are down, buy another company, so the RMR grows and the investors stay happy! If the economy is struggling, give unemployed people money to spend.

As you're implying, none of this does a dang thing to address the root of the problem. In fact, it only worsens the problem because we're created a lazy nation in the process.
 
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NolaMan

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I agree, but now I must ask another question - What is the difference between extending unemployment and giving billions in bailout money to the banksters?

Could it be that our government is more sympathetic to the banksters?
Well, I was a little torn on TARP, but ultimately I opposed it. But, by the same token, the banks (the majority at least) are not still coming back asking for more money. I imagine most people would oppose giving banks billions more in aid, and it ought to be same in terms of giving unemployed people billions more in aid. Some aid, fine, I don't love it, but I see the political reality. But it has to end somewhere, and there is really no economic benefit that we derive from it.
 

NolaMan

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A line has to be drawn, but a recession is not the time to do it. Unemployment isn't what is stopping people from working right now, the lack of jobs is. Companies get hundreds of resumes to fill a handful of jobs. Unemployment can be the difference between staying in your home or losing it. People without any income stop buying things entirely, you can't ignore government-generated demand any more than you can ignore privately-generated demand. If unemployment stopped today, what magical part of private industry would fill this demand? Where would all the extra jobs come from?
Yes, but government generated demand is a false demand. It first has to kill a same level of private sector demand. There are no jobs (I would argue) because the government keeps spending untold amounts of money trying to "create" them, ignoring that it first elimintes them by taking that money out of the private sector. I feel sympathy for someone that might lose their house on accoung of losing their benefits, but that is just the way the free market works.


edit: And a bill that gets 60 votes to beat a filibuster isn't going to lose out to the 51 final vote requirement.
I can dream right. ;)
 

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Why should it be done in the first place? But the banksters already have their billions. How about we extend unemployment benefits and take the money back from the banksters to do it?
And by the same token, hundreds of billions has already been spent on umemployment benefits and stimulus for the sake of the "little person." It just does not work.

Just playing a little Devil's advocate here, but it's a funny world that doesn't do anything for workers who get laid off, but keeps the wine and caviar flowing to those who ran their banks and companies into the ground.
In fairness here, many of the bank CEO's that were at the helm for this are gone, and the concept that we have not done anything for "workers who get laid off" is bogus at best.
 

danarhea

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And by the same token, hundreds of billions has already been spent on umemployment benefits and stimulus for the sake of the "little person." It just does not work.



In fairness here, many of the bank CEO's that were at the helm for this are gone, and the concept that we have not done anything for "workers who get laid off" is bogus at best.
Fair enough. I do agree with you that we cannot keep spending money like this. I also strongly believe that we should have let the banks go under. Here is the problem I have with the banks - They scream "Capitalism" until they want money from the government. Then they scream "Socialism".
 

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Fair enough. I do agree with you that we cannot keep spending money like this. I also strongly believe that we should have let the banks go under. Here is the problem I have with the banks - They scream "Capitalism" until they want money from the government. Then they scream "Socialism".
Yes, my big problem is that there is now a (quite long) track record of banks taking on risky investments, those investments failing, and the government stepping in to bail them out, and essentially make it so they lose no money. It has happened under both parties.

I mean, honestly, if I am a bank executive, I can look at this history, and my incentive to shy away from making large bets on risky investments basically evaporates.
 

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