Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

[Crunch]

Many, yes, but the fundamental problem is there are far more unemployed than there are job openings.

And of course you are all for amnesty for our undocumented guest workers.... :roll:

 

[Crunch]

Yes, but government generated demand is a false demand. It first has to kill a same level of private sector demand. There are no jobs (I would argue) because the government keeps spending untold amounts of money trying to "create" them, ignoring that it first elimintes them by taking that money out of the private sector. I feel sympathy for someone that might lose their house on accoung of losing their benefits, but that is just the way the free market works.




I can dream right.

It isn't even so much taking out of the private sector that is doing this..... there is plenty of money for investment that is being sat upon.

No businessman is going to spend capital on improvements or job creation in this environment when they don't know what new regulation or tax is going to come out of these amateurs to bankrupt them next. So they sit on it until someone comes along to stabilize this government, or they sit on it as a hedge against those taxes and regulations so they won't have to borrow to stay in business.

 

[ptif219]

The difference between the dems and GOP here was the GOP wanted it paid for. As always Obama gets his way and lies about the GOP and increases the debt. Shows what a lie the dems and Obama told when they passed pay go since it does not apply to them

 

[BDBoop]

I can't even tell you how much I would appreciate anybody who watches this video.

YouTube - Sen. Franken's Speech On The Economy, Unemployment, And The Budget

Get educated, then discuss this issue.

My out of work cousin who's living off the government now for the past year is probably doing somersaults with joy. She makes just as much by staying home and traveling on her husbands money than she would working. I agree... it's not just welfare it's extended welfare. Imagine - staying on the dole for 2 1/2 years going out and getting some 20K job for a few months and then hopefully getting laid off again. Hopefully Washington can keep up printing the worthless money they'll have to use.

 

[Ockham]

I can't even tell you how much I would appreciate anybody who watches this video.

YouTube - Sen. Franken's Speech On The Economy, Unemployment, And The Budget

Get educated, then discuss this issue.

Yeah - not interested in watching 40 minutes off Al Franken in any setting. Even on SNL he was marginal. I don't think I need Al to tell me about my cousin. I know her and her husband fairly well. If you have something specific that applies to my quote (which you added), let me know.

 

[BDBoop]

Okay, from the transcript:

Now, I can't imagine many things more demoralizing than not being able to find work, not being able to take care of your family. I've heard the claim from one of my colleagues that unemployment insurance provides an incentive for the millions of unemployed to just sit on their duffs and not look for work. I couldn't disagree more strongly. Unemployment insurance doesn't keep people from working. A lack of jobs keeps people from working.

I travel all over Minnesota talking to people who are out of work. I went to the Anoka County Workforce Center, I went to union halls in Duluth, in Bemidji, in Rochester. And I meet with folks who are literally depressed. These are people who have worked their whole lives. Folks who started their first paper route when they were nine or ten and took pride in doing their job, even when it meant delivering papers at 6 a.m. on a 30 below zero Minnesota winter morning.

And they've been working ever since. Work is an enormous part of their identity. These Minnesotans don't want an unemployment check. They want work.

Still, I've had a number of them come to me and say, "You know, if it weren't for unemployment insurance, I wouldn't be in my house."

One of my constituents wrote to me and said, "I was employed for 23 years since college graduation and now am in need of extended unemployment benefits as the economy slowly recovers via a 'jobless recovery.' As a college graduate with an MBA and 23 years of continuous employment at 'good jobs,' I never imagined even needing basic unemployment. . . As an active job seeker, I have met hundreds of other job seekers and virtually every one of them wants a job and wants to work."

Now, this constituent, and thousands of others like him, have to hear this junk about how unemployment insurance incentivizes people not to work! I don't know where the Senators who are saying that are going in their states, but from what I've heard from my other colleagues, it's like this all over the country.

 

[NolaMan]

It isn't even so much taking out of the private sector that is doing this..... there is plenty of money for investment that is being sat upon.

"Sat upon" in a bank? That is not how banks operate.

No businessman is going to spend capital on improvements or job creation in this environment when they don't know what new regulation or tax is going to come out of these amateurs to bankrupt them next. So they sit on it until someone comes along to stabilize this government, or they sit on it as a hedge against those taxes and regulations so they won't have to borrow to stay in business.

Money that remains in circulation (ie any money that is not burned, buried, etc) is never "sat on." You are correct, one person might be holding cash in a bank account as a hedge, but the bank turns around and keeps that money moving through the system, so it really does not just "sit".

 

[NolaMan]

Okay, from the transcript:

Now, I can't imagine many things more demoralizing than not being able to find work, not being able to take care of your family. I've heard the claim from one of my colleagues that unemployment insurance provides an incentive for the millions of unemployed to just sit on their duffs and not look for work. I couldn't disagree more strongly. Unemployment insurance doesn't keep people from working. A lack of jobs keeps people from working.

I travel all over Minnesota talking to people who are out of work. I went to the Anoka County Workforce Center, I went to union halls in Duluth, in Bemidji, in Rochester. And I meet with folks who are literally depressed. These are people who have worked their whole lives. Folks who started their first paper route when they were nine or ten and took pride in doing their job, even when it meant delivering papers at 6 a.m. on a 30 below zero Minnesota winter morning.

And they've been working ever since. Work is an enormous part of their identity. These Minnesotans don't want an unemployment check. They want work.

Still, I've had a number of them come to me and say, "You know, if it weren't for unemployment insurance, I wouldn't be in my house."

One of my constituents wrote to me and said, "I was employed for 23 years since college graduation and now am in need of extended unemployment benefits as the economy slowly recovers via a 'jobless recovery.' As a college graduate with an MBA and 23 years of continuous employment at 'good jobs,' I never imagined even needing basic unemployment. . . As an active job seeker, I have met hundreds of other job seekers and virtually every one of them wants a job and wants to work."

Now, this constituent, and thousands of others like him, have to hear this junk about how unemployment insurance incentivizes people not to work! I don't know where the Senators who are saying that are going in their states, but from what I've heard from my other colleagues, it's like this all over the country.

Al Franken's one sided perspective, full of nothing other than antidotal evidence does not negate an opposing viewpoint.

 

[Redress]

Many of the unemployed simply won't do the jobs that are available to them. There are jobs out there, but they're "beneath" them.

Where can I find the unemployment rate for previous years?

If you are right, this attitude must have infected people all of a sudden, for the first time in 2009. Or how do you explain that 10 years ago, only 4 % of the US was unemployed, and now it's almost 10 %. I guess we could make the assumption that all of a sudden millions got lazy in the country(maybe something in the water?), or we could go with the more likely assumption that there just are not nearly enough jobs out there....

 

[Redress]

Al Franken's one sided perspective, full of nothing other than antidotal evidence does not negate an opposing viewpoint.

I think it counters your anecdotal, unsupported arguments quite well actually. Two people, making unsupported claims that are the exact opposite, I think they cancel out quite well in fact.

 

[NolaMan]

I think it counters your anecdotal, unsupported arguments quite well actually. Two people, making unsupported claims that are the exact opposite, I think they cancel out quite well in fact.

What claim exactly of mine would you like backing evidence of? I am happy to supply.

 

[Ockham]

Okay, from the transcript:

Now, I can't imagine many things more demoralizing than not being able to find work, not being able to take care of your family. I've heard the claim from one of my colleagues that unemployment insurance provides an incentive for the millions of unemployed to just sit on their duffs and not look for work. I couldn't disagree more strongly. Unemployment insurance doesn't keep people from working. A lack of jobs keeps people from working.

100% incorrect as it applies to my cousin. :shrug: Source please for "lack of jobs keeps people from working". I think that's bupkus. There's jobs but seen as not paying enough, not in their field, or things some just don't want to do.

I travel all over Minnesota talking to people who are out of work. I went to the Anoka County Workforce Center, I went to union halls in Duluth, in Bemidji, in Rochester. And I meet with folks who are literally depressed. These are people who have worked their whole lives. Folks who started their first paper route when they were nine or ten and took pride in doing their job, even when it meant delivering papers at 6 a.m. on a 30 below zero Minnesota winter morning.

And they've been working ever since. Work is an enormous part of their identity. These Minnesotans don't want an unemployment check. They want work.

Still, I've had a number of them come to me and say, "You know, if it weren't for unemployment insurance, I wouldn't be in my house."

There's a place for unemployment pay checks. I disagree with 2 1/2 years worth. And as it used to be - you had to show up at the unemployment office and PROVE you were looking for work or you didn't get the check. Does that happen in Minnesota?

One of my constituents wrote to me and said, "I was employed for 23 years since college graduation and now am in need of extended unemployment benefits as the economy slowly recovers via a 'jobless recovery.' As a college graduate with an MBA and 23 years of continuous employment at 'good jobs,' I never imagined even needing basic unemployment. . . As an active job seeker, I have met hundreds of other job seekers and virtually every one of them wants a job and wants to work."

Now, this constituent, and thousands of others like him, have to hear this junk about how unemployment insurance incentivizes people not to work! I don't know where the Senators who are saying that are going in their states, but from what I've heard from my other colleagues, it's like this all over the country.[/B]

Yeah -- it's "junk". What's junk is 2 1/2 years of unemplo... err... welfare. Here's my rebuttal to Al --- if they can't find work in their field of choice for the pay the require... they'll have to take a job with less pay, not in their field. And while Al's just another Congressman shilling for his political party - I can honestly tell you there are, in Minnesota, people sitting on their duff collecting and perfectly happy doing so.

 

[BDBoop]

So everybody gets screwed, based on your family slacker and your presumed "others like him"? And that's logical to you.

100% incorrect as it applies to my cousin. :shrug: Source please for "lack of jobs keeps people from working". I think that's bupkus. There's jobs but seen as not paying enough, not in their field, or things some just don't want to do.

There's a place for unemployment paychecks. I disagree with 2 1/2 years worth. And as it used to be - you had to show up at the unemployment office and PROVE you were looking for work or you didn't get the check. Does that happen in Minnesota?

Yeah -- it's "junk". What's junk is 2 1/2 years of unemplo... err... welfare. Here's my rebuttal to Al --- if they can't find work in their field of choice for the pay the require... they'll have to take a job with less pay, not in their field. And while Al's just another Congressman shilling for his political party - I can honestly tell you there are, in Minnesota, people sitting on their duff collecting and perfectly happy doing so.

 

[The_Patriot]

Yay for spending even more money the government doesn't have. Would someone please take the checkbook away from them and send them to basic accounting?

 

[Redress]

To me it is just a waste of money. Unemployment benefits do not really help the economy. We hear all about how it does because that money is spent, but in reality, all government spending does it kill an equal multiplier effect in the private sector.

Paying people not to work (in the name of economic recovery) is going to get us nowhere. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and with predictions that unemployment will remain high for the coming decade, are we just going to pay out for ten years? I hope the bill fails on the final vote.

Yes, but government generated demand is a false demand. It first has to kill a same level of private sector demand. There are no jobs (I would argue) because the government keeps spending untold amounts of money trying to "create" them, ignoring that it first elimintes them by taking that money out of the private sector. I feel sympathy for someone that might lose their house on accoung of losing their benefits, but that is just the way the free market works.




I can dream right.

And by the same token, hundreds of billions has already been spent on umemployment benefits and stimulus for the sake of the "little person." It just does not work.



In fairness here, many of the bank CEO's that were at the helm for this are gone, and the concept that we have not done anything for "workers who get laid off" is bogus at best.

What claim exactly of mine would you like backing evidence of? I am happy to supply.

The bolded stuff please.

 

[Ockham]

So everybody gets screwed, based on your family slacker and your presumed "others like him"? And that's logical to you.

Why are they screwed? I don't buy this line about everyone in Minnesota being all hard workers out there pounding the pavement for 12 hours looking for any scrap of work and not finding it and being FORCED to take 2 1/2 years of unemployment checks. It's bull****. I have living proof in my family - who's also hard working etc.etc. just like good 'ol Al describes, and she's milking the system for all it's worth. If it's happening in my family, it's happening everywhere... hell, why not extend unemployment 5 years - how about 10 years? Oh the poor victims who can't find work... there's work everywhere, unemployment is only 9.5% - in the worst places like Nevada -- 14.5%. Minnesota? 6.8% Oh it's so hard to find work... gimme a break.

Source: Unemployment Rates for States

 

[Redress]

Yeah -- it's "junk". What's junk is 2 1/2 years of unemplo... err... welfare. Here's my rebuttal to Al --- if they can't find work in their field of choice for the pay the require... they'll have to take a job with less pay, not in their field. And while Al's just another Congressman shilling for his political party - I can honestly tell you there are, in Minnesota, people sitting on their duff collecting and perfectly happy doing so.

Anecdote for anecdote: I went to Meijer's(think Walmart, but even bigger in Michigan) to grocery shop awhile back, and the machines at front of store where people can fill out job apps where packed. Turned out word was out Meijer's was hiring a couple people part time for minimum wage to stock shelves. In my painfully small town, a hundred or more people where applying for those jobs.

 

[The_Patriot]

Why are they screwed? I don't buy this line about everyone in Minnesota being all hard workers out there pounding the pavement for 12 hours looking for any scrap of work and not finding it and being FORCED to take 2 1/2 years of unemployment checks. It's bull****. I have living proof in my family - who's also hard working etc.etc. just like good 'ol Al describes, and she's milking the system for all it's worth. If it's happening in my family, it's happening everywhere... hell, why not extend unemployment 5 years - how about 10 years? Oh the poor victims who can't find work... there's work everywhere, unemployment is only 9.5% - in the worst places like Nevada -- 14.5%. Minnesota? 6.8% Oh it's so hard to find work... gimme a break.

Source: Unemployment Rates for States

The labor statistics for unemployment are cooked to make it look like that unemployment isn't bad. The real number of unemployed is between 20-25%.

 

[BDBoop]

If, IF anybody had watched the entire video, they'd already have the answers (and yes. They are good ones, based in history, and with citations). One of my pet peeves, as I've stated before, is willful ignorance. If you can't be bothered to watch the entire speech and give the man the benefit of the doubt, I can't be bothered to discuss this any further with you.

We won. I'm happy. Life is good.

 

[Redress]

Why are they screwed? I don't buy this line about everyone in Minnesota being all hard workers out there pounding the pavement for 12 hours looking for any scrap of work and not finding it and being FORCED to take 2 1/2 years of unemployment checks. It's bull****. I have living proof in my family - who's also hard working etc.etc. just like good 'ol Al describes, and she's milking the system for all it's worth. If it's happening in my family, it's happening everywhere... hell, why not extend unemployment 5 years - how about 10 years? Oh the poor victims who can't find work... there's work everywhere, unemployment is only 9.5% - in the worst places like Nevada -- 14.5%. Minnesota? 6.8% Oh it's so hard to find work... gimme a break.

Source: Unemployment Rates for States

So explain the difference in unemployment between now and 2000. Is it because people got lazy, or is it because there are not enough jobs? I wonder which sounds more likely...

 

[BDBoop]

Senator Franken actually covered that point when he said "And the competition for each of these jobs is fierce. It's not uncommon for hundreds of people to be fighting for a single job posting. This chart shows just how hard it is to find work right now. In 2006, there were about 1.5 unemployed workers for every job opening. That number has exploded to 5 unemployed workers for every opening.



So it doesn't surprise me that countless Americans have just given up looking - and aren't even counted in the bleak unemployment statistics I've been quoting. They've just given up."

The labor statistics for unemployment are cooked to make it look like that unemployment isn't bad. The real number of unemployed is between 20-25%.

 

[Redress]

The labor statistics for unemployment are cooked to make it look like that unemployment isn't bad. The real number of unemployed is between 20-25%.

The "real" unemployment rate(which is not used because the other is what has been used and it would be confusing to change)) is tracked by the government, and is called the U6 unemployment rate. It is as of June 16.5 %.

 

[Ockham]

If, IF anybody had watched the entire video, they'd already have the answers (and yes. They are good ones, based in history, and with citations). One of my pet peeves, as I've stated before, is willful ignorance. If you can't be bothered to watch the entire speech and give the man the benefit of the doubt, I can't be bothered to discuss this any further with you.

We won. I'm happy. Life is good.

An excellent choice. Go peddle Al Franken somewhere else.

 

[Ockham]

So explain the difference in unemployment between now and 2000. Is it because people got lazy, or is it because there are not enough jobs? I wonder which sounds more likely...

I don't doubt small towns may have lower opportunity. Ya know what I had to do in that situation when I got out of the service? I drove 2 hours each way to get to work after borrowing money for a lousy car. My town might not be as small - I live in the NE so with lots of people around even in our more rural area's so it's apples and oranges really. My point is: You do what you gotta do. Then I didn't have the benefit of extended unemployment... I had money for college and I damn well wasn't going to piss it away.


And to answer your question - it's probably some of both.

 

[Redress]

I don't doubt small towns may have lower opportunity. Ya know what I had to do in that situation when I got out of the service? I drove 2 hours each way to get to work after borrowing money for a lousy car. My town might not be as small - I live in the NE so with lots of people around even in our more rural area's so it's apples and oranges really. My point is: You do what you gotta do. Then I didn't have the benefit of extended unemployment... I had money for college and I damn well wasn't going to piss it away.


And to answer your question - it's probably some of both.

Small towns always have less opportunity. We still find work by doing just what you say. This town is right between 3 bigger cities(Grand Rapids, Lansing, Battle Creek), and most people work in those places. Guess what...there are not jobs there either.