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Ukraine War, USA Throwing Europe Under The Bus ?

post # 25

The 2008 Bucharest summary statement, at the insistance of the USA alone, despite the German and French protestations, Ukraine and Georgia were told they would be " future members" of NATO
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leaves my post # 42 standing.

The rest of the usual misrepresentation by our resident dishonest distortionist deserves no further address, except, that is, that I consider neither posts from such source nor the source itself worthy of being quoted directly. That would signify a preparedness for debating anyone like that, for obvious reasons that anyone can see here (yet again) something I do not consider any such party worthy of.
 
watsup said:
Nowhere in that post does it show “US insistence”. You are lying again
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You are posts behind because your commentary isn't serious.

You stated that I lied in a previous post that contained a list of reasons why this is clearly a US proxy war with Russia. You have provided NIL/ZERO to back it so far. A usual story for your postings imo

Then I cite the NATO website to show another none serious commentry that the NATO summit summary contained the invite to Ukraine and Georgia to be " future members".

Serious commentators know that at the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest it was on the US insistence that the offer was included and that the French and Germans rejected it.

You, from a postion of obvious ignorance, immediately resort to ad hominems and standard trolling of the back of that ignorance. That's why your commentary is truly terrible and your agenda crystal clear.

But I will at least put some meat on the bones for any, more serious people, who might be interested

George W Bush arrived in an expansionist, post-cold war mindset pushing for Ukraine and Georgia to be given a roadmap to Nato membership. Granting them a so-called membership action plan would allow the two countries to follow a string of former eastern bloc states that had been allowed to join since 1999.


Putin, however, addressed the assembled leaders at the start of the meeting, describing such a move as a “direct threat” to Russian security. “I remember him clearly saying to Angela Merkel and Bush: ‘For me Ukraine is not a real country’,” said Jamie Shea, who spent 38 years inside Nato.

Putin’s language helped produce a partial retreat – and a problematic compromise.

“There was furious haggling with Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy [the then French president] and the result was that Ukraine would be offered membership in the future, but there would be no membership action plan, no firm date to join Nato,” Shea said.
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www.theguardian.com

Ukraine crisis: how Putin feeds off anger over Nato’s eastward expansion

Russian president’s attention-seeking diplomatic demands speak to long-held grievances
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
So France and Germany did not merely protest, they actually voiced their rejection?
 
Chagos said:
post # 25

leaves my post # 42 standing.

The rest of the usual misrepresentation by our resident dishonest distortionist deserves no further address, except, that is, that I consider neither posts from such source nor the source itself worthy of being quoted directly. That would signify a preparedness for debating anyone like that, for obvious reasons that anyone can see here (yet again) something I do not consider any such party worthy of.
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Fail again.

The protestations where about the inclusion of the offer in the statement. Anyone reasonable reading post 25 would understand that because it clearly refers to the summit statement itself.

The post you tried to snide through even contained the fact that they " refused" to contemplate immediate membership for Ukraine and Georgia. I even quoted the post directly, something your commentary obviously hasn't the intergrity to do.

First rule of holes, scrap that, carry on because it reflects worse on you than it does on me.
 
Chagos said:
So France and Germany did not merely protest, they actually voiced their rejection?
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see above and realize your own misrepresentations of my commentary for what they are.
 
oneworld2 said:
You are posts behind because your commentary isn't serious.

You stated that I lied in a previous post that contained a list of reasons why this is clearly a US proxy war with Russia. You have provided NIL/ZERO to back it so far. A usual story for your postings imo

Then I cite the NATO website to show another none serious commentry that the NATO summit summary contained the invite to Ukraine and Georgia to be " future members".

Serious commentators know that at the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest it was on the US insistence that the offer was included and that the French and Germans rejected it.

You, from a postion of obvious ignorance, immediately resort to ad hominems and standard trolling of the back of that ignorance. That's why your commentary is truly terrible and your agenda crystal clear.

But I will at least put some meat on the bones for any, more serious people, who might be interested



www.theguardian.com

Ukraine crisis: how Putin feeds off anger over Nato’s eastward expansion

Russian president’s attention-seeking diplomatic demands speak to long-held grievances
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Do Georgia and Ukraine, as independent democracy-based nations, have a right to maintain their own destiny, or does Russia have veto power over them? Freedom-loving people know the answer to this. Do you?
 
watsup said:
Do Georgia and Ukraine, as independent democracy-based nations, have a right to maintain their own destiny, or does Russia have veto power over them? Freedom-loving people know the answer to this. Do you?
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I'm not wasting too much my time talking to none serious posters such as yourself. What planet do you live on ? lol

You have work to do, remember. You need to back up your own accusations or be prepared to be called that you are constantly calling others.

Eitherway you are definitely not to be taken seriously imo. Post after post with baseless accusations and no content worthy of the name............debate.
 
Chagos said:
post # 25

leaves my post # 42 standing.
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No it undermines it completely because it refers to the summary statement only.

You are not even good at this misrepresentation stuff but you insist on following me around only to make yourself look silly. That's fine btw
 
oneworld2 said:
I'm not wasting too much my time talking to none serious posters such as yourself. What planet do you live on ? lol

You have work to do, remember. You need to back up your own accusations or be prepared to be called that you are constantly calling others.

Eitherway you are definitely not to be taken seriously imo. Post after post with baseless accusations and no content worthy of the name............debate.
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I see. I ask you a question extremely relevant and central to the discussion, and you back away and hide behind a bunch of lame excuses and ad hom. Can’t say that I am surprised, but let me try again:

Do Georgia and Ukraine, as independent democracy-based nations, have a right to maintain their own destiny, or does Russia have veto power over them? Freedom-loving people know the answer to this. Do you?
 
oneworld2 said:
I don't have to because it's obvious to any who have a scintilla of independent thought within them.

Find the answers to these questions and understand why this is a clear proxy war.

Who was the state that insisted, against others, that Ukraine and Georgia be invited to join NATO?

Who was involved in picking some of the post coup govt in Ukraine circa 2014 ? This govt and subsequent ones targeting ethnic Russian Ukrainians?

Who has been out in Ukraine training their military?

Who is arming them and have been since Trump ?

All the warnings were given to the US and the US alone ignored them because? The want to remain the global hegemon and Russia wasn't happy being pushed around or threatened by NATO. The same scenario will play out with China in the not too distant future, likely over Taiwan .

You can bury your head in the sand if you want to but others can see this for what it is.
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Much typing.

No evidence.

Rejected.
 
watsup said:
I see. I ask you a question extremely relevant and central to the discussion, and you back away and hide behind a bunch of lame excuses and ad hom. Can’t say that I am surprised, but let me try again:

Do Georgia and Ukraine, as independent democracy-based nations, have a right to maintain their own destiny, or does Russia have veto power over them? Freedom-loving people know the answer to this. Do you?
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Your posts show no self awareness.

You accuse others of lying in two seperate posts, get asked to refute them and fail to do so and then decide you want to engage in a discussion , complaining that your question never got answered ? lol

Your posts are not serious debate material and the above is standard projection.

The ball remains in your court and there will be no dialogue until you can either prove that I am " lying" or you actually admit that you haven't a clue what you are talking about and retract the accusation
 
Looks like OW2 doesn't know the consequence of climbing yet higher and higher up the pole.:p
 
7(
oneworld2 said:
Your posts show no self awareness.

You accuse others of lying in two seperate posts, get asked to refute them and fail to do so and then decide you want to engage in a discussion , complaining that your question never got answered ? lol

Your posts are not serious debate material and the above is standard projection.

The ball remains in your court and there will be no dialogue until you can either prove that I am " lying" or you actually admit that you haven't a clue what you are talking about and retract the accusation
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I noted your lie: “US insistence”. Nowhere does it say that. Why are you lying?
Now answer the question,
 
Chagos said:
Looks like OW2 doesn't know the consequence of climbing yet higher and higher up the pole.:p
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Projection, as expected. ;)
 
Fledermaus said:
You consider three short sentences too long?

That is just pitiful.
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Three short sentences of standard trolling is too long to read imo
 
watsup said:
7(


I noted your lie: “US insistence”. Nowhere does it say that. Why are you lying?
Now answer the question,
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Troll on brother
 
Fledermaus said:
In other words. Too hard for you to comprehend even though written at grade school level.
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I understood and correctly identified them for what they were. It's the trollers that are at a " grade school level", obviously. ;)
 
oneworld2 said:
Troll on brother
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It’s not trolling. You claimed “US insistence”. That’s an obvious LIE. Why do you lie?
And now you refuse to answer a question that is central to the discussion. What are you so afraid of?
 
watsup said:
It’s not trolling. You claimed “US insistence”. That’s an obvious LIE. Why do you lie?
And now you refuse to answer a question that is central to the discussion. What are you so afraid of?
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:ROFLMAO:

The article I cited stated US " pushing" I chose insistence. Serious commentators know what went on, you are stuck in a loop and can only troll others because of your lack of knowledge. It's like the Truman Show lol
 
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