Chagos
DP Veteran
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Hmmmmmm..............I'm not really sure how you reconcile the chair of an independent inquiry into anti-Semitism within the Labour Party, with the chair joining the party: Anti-Semitism inquiry leader Shami Chakrabarti joins Labour - Anti-Semitism inquiry leader Shami Chakrabarti joins Labour - BBC News
Hmmmmmm..............
Do you reckon it will compromise her impartiality? Beyond the fact that the review was commissioned by Labour itself anyway?
Perhaps not the most elegant of moves but then she never was seen as a "true independent" anyway. For that she would have had to come from Mars.
Perhaps better then finishing the review and then declaring her political desires. Tongues may still wag now but imagine the ruckus if (once) she'd have done the latter.
~ In addition she is not intending on broaching the subject directly with Livingstone ~
Yeah, there's a sour taste to it all, every which way.Yes, definitely an issue over impartiality. I mean she suggests it has to do with "gaining trust of members"; does that mean if you were to investigate the bankers you'd have to become a banker, first? People will only tell you what they want you to know, simple. In addition she is not intending on broaching the subject directly with Livingstone. It seems already that she is treading very lightly around the possible issues.
Yeah, there's a sour taste to it all, every which way.
If one desires an independent investigation, commission an independent and make sure s/he stays that way.
Truth be told I have not the foggiest how such an investigation is conducted (or supposed to be) and I'd be clueless, once that primary ignorance were dissipated, whom to commission it to.You suggest appointing someone from where, to head an inquiry into why members of the Labour Party were in effect asked, 'when did you stop beating your spouse'?
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has not done enough to tackle anti-Semitism in the party, a committee of MPs has said.
The Home Affairs Select Committee report criticised him for a lack of "consistent leadership" on the issue, which it said benefited people with "vile attitudes" toward Jewish people. Link.
Some members of the forum have been saying this for a while and now a Parliamentary committee has said the same. Labour has to deal with this problem far more effectively than it has so far.
The issue is about politics not antisemitism and it is important to keep them separate.
~
OK must run to pick up grandson from nursery.
- Labour MP Luciana Berger received more than 2,500 abusive tweets in three days in 2014
- Since walking out of the launch of a report on anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, the Jewish Labour MP Ruth Smeeth has reported more than 25,000 incidents of abuse
- Police-recorded anti-Semitic hate crime in England and some parts of Wales increased by 29% between 2010 and 2015, compared with a 9% increase across all hate crime categories
- A fifth of British Jewish people responding to an Institute for Jewish Policy Research study had experienced at least one anti-Semitic harassment incident during the last year, with 68% of incidents taking place online
You must have been too busy to read examples from the link I gave.
They don't sound like politics to me but simple antisemitism.
Of course there is also antisemitism and it always gets worse after Israel has been involved in a war for instance the 2014 Gaza war. However in the labour party it very definitely is about politics - that is the blairites in particular against the Corbyns. No question on that and it ought to be clear enough from the taster I gave you. Because there is genuine antisemitism is the very real reason it needs to dealt with as that rather than calling criticism of Israel antisemitism. I probably cannot talk too much more because of forum rules but possibly you might also look at this site. If you just go by the tabloids then you do not have any proper information and understanding of the situation. I appreciate that may be enough for a forum but it is not as the situation is.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/315237906/Free-Speech-on-Israel-Submission-to-Chakrabarti-Submission
Free Speech on Israel - Jews & friends who say antizionism is NOT antisemitism
None of this is what the parliamentary committee criticised Jeremy Corbyn for.?
We are obviously seeing very different things. The first link I gave you
Media coverage skews antisemitism report | Jews for Justice for Palestinians
gives a criticism of that report, a copy of the report and other links which without question have relevance to what I said even if not to what you wanted me to be talking about as well as other material which they also believe illustrates their point. The whole thing that is being spoken about is that antisemitism in the Labour Party is about politics. The reality that the report did not even concentrate on where most antisemitism is - the far right, but on the many and frequently false or depending on your political view, calls of antisemitism on Labour people. Indeed the last article on that link discusses the many fabrications of accusations. The one I know most specifically being Jackie Walker.
You said antisemitism is going up. I am unsure whether it is going up though I know it went up dramatically after the 2014 Gaza War and possibly continued in 2015. I believe there is some controversy as to whether antisemitism has gone up or whether it is what is being called antisemitism - that is whether what is said is seen as a political view or prejudice.
Now after you came back with talk of increased antisemitism suggesting this proved it was not a political issue, I gave you a link to Free Speech on Israel's submission to the Chakrabarti report. As you will be aware one of the key criticisms was her and basically accusing her of being a corrupt woman who was only in it to get into the Lords. As it happens many Jewish groups who work for justice in that part of the world put in their statements which are very different to what we hear on the media but they too are Jews, just Jews with a different opinion. She took heed of what they all said not just the ones working for Israel such as the Jewish Labour Movement who only lets in Jews whose priority that is and also non Jews whose key priority that is. They are the people wanting to have the power to say what is antisemitism and they want that to include criticism of Israel. FSoI describes how they view things differently, indicating why what they see as antisemitism may be different from a person whose first priority is Israel as is the case with those in the Jewish Labour Movement.
I then provided a link to their website where the lead article is on the report so I am absolutely at a loss as to how you do not see anything which I provided as having any relevance to the reports criticisms of Corbyn. That is what they are about. The differences they see is from political viewpoint. Antisemitism is very much a political issue in mainstream not one on prejudice and the links I gave you all deal with that.
If you do not look at any of the links which are all either directly about the report or dealing with related material, there is nothing more I can say.
You really don't have to go past your first link, to know who has the skewed view on this topic.
I notice there is nothing you can do to deny what I have said and the quite substantial information given except a personal attack. No surprise there.
Since when have mistruths and propaganda been determined as 'substantial information '.
Some members of the forum have been saying this for a while and now a Parliamentary committee has said the same. Labour has to deal with this problem far more effectively than it has so far.
~ I am aware you refuse to read about it. If you only know half the story much safer, eh? ~
No Alexa, you just always seem to be on the way to pick up kids and seem to have stopped discussing or as you have done in the past simply said you wouldn't respond further. You still post long articles which obfuscate the issue rather than deal with them. Nothing in what you posted deals with the very simple criminal acts of hate which the committee listed such as all the twitter posts directed at various jews.
How you say the issue is political rather than simple antisemitic hate incidents is beyond me. When you can clarify why you ignore the incidents shown on the links I gave, then we can have a discussion as we then have some grounds for discussion / agreement or disagreement.
It amazes me how she can disappear from these boards for several years and then return and she's exactly the same as she was.
1) Posts a link to some opinion piece on a propaganda site and writes a wall of text on it.
2) Talks about her "links" and the "substantial information" they contain, makes use of the words "links" and "study" a lot.
3) Anyone confronting her? Tells them to look at her "links" again as she posts another opinion piece from a propaganda site to confuse them further.
4) Still confronting? Accuses them of personal attacks even though they clearly attack her words and not her character.
5) Tells the other side that she's done responding to them. This is a key part.
6) Continues responding to them with claims of personal attacks and mumbling about her "links" and "study".
Since May '09. I could refer you to arguments I had with her 6 years ago you'll be amazed how similar they are to this one.
No Alexa, you just always seem to be on the way to pick up kids and seem
to have stopped discussing
Some members of the forum have been saying this for a while and now a Parliamentary committee has said the same. Labour has to deal with this problem far more effectively than it has so far.
Free Speech on Israel is a network of labour, green and trade union activists in the UK, mainly Jewish, who came together in April 2016 to counter attempts by pro-Israel right wingers to brand the campaign for justice for Palestinians as antisemitic.
or as you have done in the past simply said you wouldn't respond further.
The articles I provided supported what I said. You never even looked at them. You believe only Jews of one political view are concerned about antisemitism? I may assure you you are very wrong.You still post long articles which obfuscate the issue rather than deal with them.
Nothing in what you posted deals with the very simple criminal acts of hate which the committee listed such as all the twitter posts directed at various jews.
How you say the issue is political rather than simple antisemitic hate incidents is beyond me.
The committee commissioned its report following a rise of antisemitism in Britain. But this rise is attributed only to verbal and mainly online abuse, not to physical violence against Jews, cases of which are nearly nonexistent. By every objective parameter, except abuse online, Jews’ situation in Britain has never been better, and the committee’s very existence proves just how much antisemitism is not tolerated outside a few pockets on Labour’s far left, among the tiny neo-Nazi skinhead groups and in a few deluded student unions.
This important report points out the isolated pockets of antisemitism in Britain and helps to further marginalize them. When in France, Belgium and Denmark, Jews have been murdered, and in the United States, Donald Trump has risen as a presidential candidate openly appealing to neo-Nazis and white supremacists, it’s hard not to argue that the Jews of Britain are safer than any other community in the world.
Simpleχity;1065829523 said:
~ You have great ignorance and with your friends reply to information with abuse. While I will give you a grade A on that, you fail on all else even at one point trying to claim I had not provided any links which dealt with the report when all I had given to that time did. I have provided sufficient information so that anyone who is interested in the situation now has an opportunity to learn more. My life is better spent with people who are capable of genuine debate - a situation where it is possible for all to learn rather than those who give into personal attacks to hide their ignorance.
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