UK Labour Party reportedly suspends 50 members over anti-Semitic, racist comments

[Apocalypse]

Maybe I'm just one for stating the bleeding obvious.

Well we can start with the fact that the term Zionism actually has meaning, as all words do, so it's not a "whole load of crap" that was lumped together for it but rather its actual definition.

 

[PeteEU]

Yom Hashoa.

It begins on the 27th Nisan (unless that falls onto a Shabbath). Have fun converting it into "Gregorian".

What's "official" in UK means diddly squat in Israel.

Who the **** cares what holidays are in Israel. We are in Europe, the issue is in the UK specifically.. It was not remembrance day so why the hell was it brought up?

 

[PeteEU]

I'm not talking about any 'Remembrance Day'. The poster that brought it up was clearly referring to Holocaust Memorial Day, which you - with your typical anti-Israel world view - dismissed as hardly worthy of your attention. Well in keeping with your character.

And Holocaust Memorial Day is in JANUARY! So why the hell bring it up?

 

[PeteEU]

Chagos isn't in the UK Pete, there are other holocaust memorial days. This may help you in future -

Yes but the whole thread is about the UK. Also the only place that May 5th seems to be some what related to the holocaust is in Israel and Austria (?). And finally the official holocaust memoral day is in January.. you know the one that the world follows including the UK..

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Pete, I know you love an argument, sometimes to the cost of common sense or courtesy but you've completely lost track of why the poster you are attacking here wanted a break.

Have some dignity, give it a break.

Yes but the whole thread is about the UK. Also the only place that May 5th seems to be some what related to the holocaust is in Israel and Austria (?). And finally the official holocaust memoral day is in January.. you know the one that the world follows including the UK..

And Holocaust Memorial Day is in JANUARY! So why the hell bring it up?

Who the **** cares what holidays are in Israel. We are in Europe, the issue is in the UK specifically.. It was not remembrance day so why the hell was it brought up?

 

[Chagos]

I absolutely disagree, and before you say it again, yes, it has sunk in and I understand the argument however, I still reject it, just as I would any similar argument. It is special pleading, it is thought policing and it is shutting down the argument plain and simple; Probably worse than that, it is actually a presuppositional type of argument and, those kinds of arguments are dishonest to the core. If that makes me an anti-semite*, then there is something wrong with the terminology but, I will add that as an atheist, I care less than nothing about what religions claim to be sacred.

You think being Jewish is solely about following the mosaic faith? You think those sent to the camps were sent entirely on what religion they followed? Those bombed on Dizengoff Street (to name the one with probably the highest number of casualties) were all religious? The kosher supermarket in Paris?

I hope that you are all now satisfied that you have managed to define me into the same category as our resident 'Proud Anti-Semite'. Good job.

Simmer down ferchrissake. Nobody's putting you in that same category, least of all me.

But you are in the category of those not knowing what they're saying if you (should you) declare yourself an anti-Zionist as accompaniment to being critical of Israeli policy. And if you (should you) advocate the resettling of all Israelis to some place else, you're also advocating the dismemberment of the state Israel. And that, whether it would be your intention or not, constitutes anti-semitism.

No matter how many fits you have over it.

 

[Chagos]

Who the **** cares what holidays are in Israel.

I do and I'm far from alone.

We are in Europe,

It happens that so am I and so are we.

the issue is in the UK specifically.. It was not remembrance day so why the hell was it brought up?

It was brought up because I felt it to be pertinent, specifically in face of the insensitivity you displayed at the time in your post #17 and are displaying even now in the futile ambition of being right, no matter how much further you put your foot into it in the process.

 

[Chagos]

And Holocaust Memorial Day is in JANUARY! So why the hell bring it up?

Yes but the whole thread is about the UK. Also the only place that May 5th seems to be some what related to the holocaust is in Israel and Austria (?). And finally the official holocaust memoral day is in January.. you know the one that the world follows including the UK..

You just don't know when to stop, do you?

What is official remembrance day in the UK is of lesser concern to Jews in the whole wide world than Yom Hashoa is.

And since this thread is demonstrably about anti-semitism, it's as little confined to the UK as remembering the Holocaust is.

Now go and tell us again how resettlement (joke or not and in bad taste in both instances) of all Israelis does not equate to dismemberment of the state of Israel, but how it's advocation is merely being critical of Israeli policy.

Go on, never mind about stopping when the hole is deep enough, dig to your hearts content.:roll:

 

[Chagos]

It's all rooted in pure ignorance about what Zionism really means. Most of those who consider themselves "anti-Zionist" and attack it on every chance are people who'll tell you that Zionism is some social-economic ideology with global aspirations that are aiming for a new world order and other nonsense. In reality Zionism has been the belief that Jews should have a nation of their own and in the last 68 years it's been the belief that Israel should simply continue to exist, such an awful belief, I don't know if you can even call it a "belief" since it's such a practical idea, we don't feel the need to oppose the idea that the UK or China or North Korea or Angola should continue to exist.

It's the good old antisemitic "Jews are in control of everything" and no ideology takes the "illuminati" or "freemasons" spot better than Zionism. Just several days ago I watched some video from some Egyptian news channel where they were interviewing an Egyptian guy about Lionel Messi and how he had insulted the great Egyptian nation by donating them his shoes, did he attack Messi with strong words calling him names and claiming he's an asshole? No, he simply said "Messi is a Zionist". And that absurd attitude is the same one we're seeing in so many European left-wing circles, an attitude that is rooted in the belief that Jews are behind everything, and the name of the agenda behind those Jews is simply called "Zionism". The "Zionists" control Birmingham university, the "Zionists" control British media, etc. etc. etc.

Funny that the Protocol of the Elders of Zion hasn't popped up yet. I mean with so many sites on the web actually ragging on about it.

 

[Manc Skipper]

You think being Jewish is solely about following the mosaic faith? You think those sent to the camps were sent entirely on what religion they followed? Those bombed on Dizengoff Street (to name the one with probably the highest number of casualties) were all religious? The kosher supermarket in Paris?

Simmer down ferchrissake. Nobody's putting you in that same category, least of all me.

But you are in the category of those not knowing what they're saying if you (should you) declare yourself an anti-Zionist as accompaniment to being critical of Israeli policy. And if you (should you) advocate the resettling of all Israelis to some place else, you're also advocating the dismemberment of the state Israel. And that, whether it would be your intention or not, constitutes anti-semitism.

No matter how many fits you have over it.

That's a tired canard used to refocus and shut off debate. A cogent analysis of the present furore can be found here:

" Last week the Labour Party came under ferocious political and media attack for allegedly harbouring antisemites in its midst. In the course of this, the accusers often blurred the distinction between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, between legitimate criticisms of the state of Israel and hatred of Jews in general. ...

https://www.opendemocracy.net/avi-shlaim-gwyn-daniel/labour-party-israel-and-antisemitism

 

[Chagos]

That's a tired canard used to refocus and shut off debate. ................

I'm not attempting to shut of anything, least of all criticism of Israeli policies that I find (to say the least) disastrous.

I'm also not advocating the whole state be disbanded by way of a remedy.

Which brings us back to square one.

 

[Apocalypse]

I'm not attempting to shut of anything, least of all criticism of Israeli policies that I find (to say the least) disastrous.

I'm also not advocating the whole state be disbanded by way of a remedy.

Which brings us back to square one.

As I told William above where they 'lose the fight' (metaphorically speaking since there really is none) is in the simple yet delicate realm of basic logic and common sense.
Skipper claims it's "criticism of Israel", I can't see in what method or way would such statements ever count as "criticism of Israel", meaning criticising anything the Israeli government is doing.
The claim that pointing out the antisemitic nature of such statements is done to shut off debate is as such no different than those who will defend anti-Black statements claiming that the other side is being "PC". There is no debate to shut down here, there are only antisemitic statements, are we expected to actually discuss on whether or not a British university is controlled by the Zionists or whether or not Hitler was one?

 

[Chagos]

As I told William above where they 'lose the fight' (metaphorically speaking since there really is none) is in the simple yet delicate realm of basic logic and common sense.
Skipper claims it's "criticism of Israel", I can't see in what method or way would such statements ever count as "criticism of Israel", meaning criticising anything the Israeli government is doing.
The claim that pointing out the antisemitic nature of such statements is done to shut off debate is as such no different than those who will defend anti-Black statements claiming that the other side is being "PC". There is no debate to shut down here, there are only antisemitic statements, are we expected to actually discuss on whether or not a British university is controlled by the Zionists or whether or not Hitler was one?

Well, I'll discuss it if need be, but only in a mixture of merriment and disgust.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Sure - and its possible I might win the lottery. People who proclaim they are 'anti-Zionist' really mean they are anti-Israel and anti-Jew. There may be exceptions, of course, but they are few in number.

Really? There are "few in numbers" who claim to be anti-zionist but not "anti-Jew"? :doh What kind of reality do you live in?

 

[PeteEU]

You just don't know when to stop, do you?

`

No you dont know when to stop.

What is official remembrance day in the UK is of lesser concern to Jews in the whole wide world than Yom Hashoa is.

And what is of concern to Israelis is of no concern of mine or anyone else on the planet. For us gentiles, Yom Hashoa is just another day, just like the sabbath is just half a weekend for most.

And since this thread is demonstrably about anti-semitism, it's as little confined to the UK as remembering the Holocaust is.

Just because Israelis happen to remember the holocaust on that specific day is irrelevant to this thread. You brought it up. It was not and never will be anti-Semitism to be critical of the state of Israel. You are the one trying to "taint the messenger" by bringing in a national mourning day for a country thousands of km away from the UK.

Now go and tell us again how resettlement (joke or not and in bad taste in both instances) of all Israelis does not equate to dismemberment of the state of Israel, but how it's advocation is merely being critical of Israeli policy.

1. Not all Israelis are Jews. In fact only 75% are last I looked. Moving Israel to say the US would include moving the non Jewish population... the post does not distinguish if I remember right.

2. No where does it state the dismemberment of the state of Israel. Moving does not mean dismemberment. Moving means moving. You move a car.. you dont dismember it. You move homes, you dont tear down the old home to move to a new one.

3. Israeli politicians have for decades floated the idea of "moving Arabs" out of Israel, and yet that is okay with you? Where are the protests against those ideas? Where are the political heads rolling because of those comments? Oh they are made ministers in the government of Israel.. but hey!

Now listen. The post it self might be factually correct but impossible to actually do, and yes it is in massively bad taste, but considering the time it was spreading on Facebook and what was going on.. then there was a lot of this crap going on.

Throwing the anti-Semtic tag on anything remotely Israel critical is getting old and frankly hurts the Jewish cause because it desensitizes people to actual anti-Semitism which yes does exist in this world. It is the old "cry wolf" idea.. do it too many times and people dont give a crap about what you say and frankly that is what is happening more and more. It has come down to this basically.. be critical of a single Jew or Israel for whatever reason and bam you are attacked for being an anti-Semite. Look at these boards.. every single person being critical of Israel are labelled as being anti-Semite almost instantly.. why is that?

Go on, never mind about stopping when the hole is deep enough, dig to your hearts content.:roll:

There is no hole being dug... only you forgetting that 99.99% of the world dont follow Jewish holidays. I admit fully that I had to dig quite a bit to understand what you meant by "Remembrance day", until I realized it was a Israeli thing...At first I thought it might be the end of WW2.. but that is May 8-9th.... yes today. So basically dont expect people outside Israel to know about Israeli national holidays/remembrance days and stop attacking people for not knowing them!

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Suggesting Hitler had supported Zionism is definitely antisemitic, and I'm not 'saying' that but rather pointing the obvious out.

How is that at all anti-semitic? If anything its just ignorant of history, especially around the basis of the Haavara Agreement.

If we are to be honest, although honesty is something you avoid like the plague,

Oh yes. Now I'm a liar!

I didn't claim every single statement that was said by all these dozens of people was antisemitic,

And I never said you did.

I was replying to your comment that it's all (and later the majority of it is) "criticism of Israel".

And I believe it to be so. Some of it idiotic and illogical.

You have clearly changed the subject

I have? Where did I do that? I picked out a statement cited in the OP and asked how it is anti-semitic... Something I have asked of you to explain but have not yet explained.

once you realized you have lost the ability to maintain that claim.

:lamo

As I claimed several posts ago and as you now have recognized you were absolutely wrong and I've not seen any actual critcisim of Israel in any of these remarks,

Actually I have defended my point, and once I have now you have simply said, "haha! I win you loose!".

that was a lie

Wait, what!? So now having a different opinion than you is a "lie"!? What is a "lie"!?

and now you've changing the subject which is something those who are lying do so to avoid recognizing the fact that they are indeed, and not the other side, lying.

:lamo This is ****ing pathetic. I have not "changed the subject", im simply asking how the image is anti-semitic, a image cited in the OP.

In regards to the image you keep referring to however the belief that we should deport all of Israel's citizens away from their homeland is definitely antisemitic and that's a no-brainer for those of us who do not have an unexplainable impulse to defend such miserable comments.

Ummmm... In no way does it mention that we should "deport all of Israel's citizens away from their homeland".

 

[sanman]

Labour have to be anti-semitic -- remember, this party's future lies with growing demographic groups like Muslims. You can't alienate your bread-and-butter.

 

[Apocalypse]

How is that at all anti-semitic? If anything its just ignorant of history, especially around the basis of the Haavara Agreement.

No, it could have been simple ignorance of history had it not been repeated by Livingstone several times claiming he has nothing to apologize on.
Making such statement on the relations between Hitler and the Jewish people is indeed antisemitic, Hitler was not a supporter of a Jewish state and claiming that he was and that later on he "went mad" cannot be seen as anything but antisemitism, so we should ask how come you don't consider it antisemitism instead of asking how come it is considered as such.

And I believe it to be so. Some of it idiotic and illogical.

I'm afraid that as usual logic is not on your side, in no way is the claim that Zionists are in control of the Birmingham University a statement which is critical of an Israeli government action, neither is the belief that Israel should be dismantled and moved to the US with its Jewish population or the belief that Hitler was supportive of the Jewish plight for a nation. None have to do with criticizing Israel clearly and you should recognize that you are making zero sense here. You haven't even attempted to show how exactly can you mistake it as 'criticism of Israel' so far, so I don't know why you even bother making such senseless remark.

I have? Where did I do that? I picked out a statement cited in the OP and asked how it is anti-semitic... Something I have asked of you to explain but have not yet explained.

You were asked how is it critical of the Israeli government and you were changing the subject to discuss how is it antisemitic instead, so yeah I think it's pretty obvious that you have.

Actually I have defended my point, and once I have now you have simply said, "haha! I win you loose!".

Really now? Point me to where you've shown how these statements are critical of Israeli policies.

Wait, what!? So now having a different opinion than you is a "lie"!? What is a "lie"!?

Something that is told which is untrue.

Ummmm... In no way does it mention that we should "deport all of Israel's citizens away from their homeland".

I can't even...
What, so moving a country does not include its citizens? And when you read the sentences on that image claiming that the Israelis will not be surrounded by hostile neighbors you think they were referring to what exactly, if not people? It's like you're willing to completely disregard common sense just so you can say whatever it is you wish to say.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

No, it could have been simple ignorance of history had it not been repeated by Livingstone several times claiming he has nothing to apologize on.
Making such statement on the relations between Hitler and the Jewish people is indeed antisemitic, Hitler was not a supporter of a Jewish state and claiming that he was and that later on he "went mad" cannot be seen as anything but antisemitism, so we should ask how come you don't consider it antisemitism instead of asking how come it is considered as such.

Saying Hitler supported Zionism is not anti-semitic. Saying something along the lines of "I agreed with Hitler in his final solution", now that is anti-semitic. Saying "Hitler supported Zionism" is not anti-semitic, thats simply being a moron and ignorant of history.

I'm afraid that as usual logic is not on your side, in no way is the claim that Zionists are in control of the Birmingham University a statement which is critical of an Israeli government action, neither is the belief that Israel should be dismantled and moved to the US with its Jewish population or the belief that Hitler was supportive of the Jewish plight for a nation. None have to do with criticizing Israel clearly and you should recognize that you are making zero sense here. You haven't even attempted to show how exactly can you mistake it as 'criticism of Israel' so far, so I don't know why you even bother making such senseless remark.

You were asked how is it critical of the Israeli government and you were changing the subject to discuss how is it antisemitic instead, so yeah I think it's pretty obvious that you have.

Its ironic criticism.
-The graphic itself is inherently critical of the Israeli govenrment and their policy and treatment towards the Palestinian populations.
-The state of modern day"Israel" (Palestine) was one of the several options for the establishment of a "homeland for the Jews", it was not the only option for this "homeland". There were several ideas for the location of the establishment of a "homeland for the Jews". Areas of Africa, Australia, parts of far east Russia, and various others. The location of the British Mandate of Palestine was the most popular. However, as we see the Israeli govenrment constantly claims they are under attack by Arab and/or Palestinian populations in the area. So the ironic criticism is, "Oh you are under attack, why not move this state to the US, where many people and the US govenrment upholds the state of Israel as a key ally, etc". And also the idea that Israel would be surrounded by a "friendly state", aka the USA.
-Another criticism, which is a criticism of both the American government and Israeli government is the $3 billion in aid that goes to the state of Israel from the USA.

Also I asked you to explain how the graphic was anti-semitic way back in this post# http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...semitic-racist-comments-4.html#post1065837772 This was way before you asked me to explain how the image was anti-semitic. All you did was continued to ignore the question I asked of you to explain how the image was anti-semitic, and now you come here say by asking the question (which I have done post after post) is somehow "changing the subject". :lamo

Really now? Point me to where you've shown how these statements are critical of Israeli policies.

I have defended my point above, and several other posts going into how most of this criticism are based in election strategy, some are completely fabricated, and some are based in the idea that being critical of Zionism is now considered "anti-semitism". But I forgot the evidence I presented "wasnt evidence". :roll:

Something that is told which is untrue.

Where have I "lied"? Or do you just go around calling people liars when you lack a substantive argument?

I can't even...
What, so moving a country does not include its citizens? And when you read the sentences on that image claiming that the Israelis will not be surrounded by hostile neighbors you think they were referring to what exactly, if not people? It's like you're willing to completely disregard common sense just so you can say whatever it is you wish to say.

Relocating a state does not mean the population of said state has to go with it.

 

[Chagos]

`

No you dont know when to stop.......................

Oh I do and now's the time.

Speaking of which, I won't make any more of it in face of the ignorance you display on this issue. More so in face of the insensitivity that borders on contempt.

To summarize, I won't make any more time for you.


Good bye.

 

[Apocalypse]

Saying Hitler supported Zionism is not anti-semitic. Saying something along the lines of "I agreed with Hitler in his final solution", now that is anti-semitic. Saying "Hitler supported Zionism" is not anti-semitic, thats simply being a moron and ignorant of history.

Antisemitism is always ignorant, it can be both and it is both.
Anyway, what we have here is you failing to recognize what is antisemitism, and as I pointed out a countless times by now twisting Hitler's relations with Jews as if he was a supporter of their causes is antisemitic, let's end this discussion here since it became an argument where I'm pointing that the skies are blue and you're denying it.

Its ironic criticism.
-The graphic itself is inherently critical of the Israeli govenrment and their policy and treatment towards the Palestinian populations.
-The state of modern day"Israel" (Palestine) was one of the several options for the establishment of a "homeland for the Jews", it was not the only option for this "homeland". There were several ideas for the location of the establishment of a "homeland for the Jews". Areas of Africa, Australia, parts of far east Russia, and various others. The location of the British Mandate of Palestine was the most popular. However, as we see the Israeli govenrment constantly claims they are under attack by Arab and/or Palestinian populations in the area. So the ironic criticism is, "Oh you are under attack, why not move this state to the US, where many people and the US govenrment upholds the state of Israel as a key ally, etc". And also the idea that Israel would be surrounded by a "friendly state", aka the USA.
-Another criticism, which is a criticism of both the American government and Israeli government is the $3 billion in aid that goes to the state of Israel from the USA.

You're mainly discussing here the details of that graphic and not the general idea behind it. Saying that because it mentioned some nonsense about the US aid to Israel it's critical of the American government is beyond ridiculous. So to refer to the main idea - no, this is absolutely not the case, there is no criticism of any policy of the Israeli government towards the Palestinian people and it's not critical of any Israeli policy, if anything what you're referring to here is criticism of Israel's very existance, if we can even call it "criticism" and more like opposition, and you're pretty much saying it. Again for the billionth time you prove how you could care less about how illogical you may sound as long as you say that which you want.

Also I asked you to explain how the graphic was anti-semitic way back in this post# http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...semitic-racist-comments-4.html#post1065837772 This was way before you asked me to explain how the image was anti-semitic.

Do realize you were making the claim that it's all criticism of Israel, all of these statements, way before it in your first post in this thread, so dishonesty continues to be your leading agenda. Furthermore you haven't even referred to how the Zionists being in control of Birmingham University and how Hitler supporting Zionism are remarks that are critical of the Israeli government policies, all you did was claim that the picture Naz Shah retweeted was critical of Israel's existance (which is apparently a policy to you), and that was lame.

I have defended my point above, and several other posts going into how most of this criticism are based in election strategy, some are completely fabricated, and some are based in the idea that being critical of Zionism is now considered "anti-semitism". But I forgot the evidence I presented "wasnt evidence". :roll:

And it will continue to not be evidence until you'll learn what real evidence is and stop taking your information from hateful blogs that share your agenda.

Where have I "lied"? Or do you just go around calling people liars when you lack a substantive argument?

Where you've claimed it's all "criticism of Israel", you've attempted to defend antisemitism by legitimizing it as criticism of Israel even though you could never manage to link between an Israeli policy and what was being said. (Zionists conrol Birmingham Uni, Hitler supported Zionism, let's dismantle Israel and move it to the US with its citizens, etc.)

Relocating a state does not mean the population of said state has to go with it.

Dumbest statement of the last billion years, literally the dumbest thing I have heard, especially so when we've already referred to how the image refers to the people of Israel on several occasions.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Antisemitism is always ignorant, it can be both and it is both.

This does not mean all ignorant criticism is anti-semitic...

Anyway, what we have here is you failing to recognize what is antisemitism,

Because the criticism you are pointing out is not anti-semitic.

and as I pointed out a countless times by now twisting Hitler's relations with Jews as if he was a supporter of their causes is antisemitic,

No its not. It simply does not fit the definition.
""Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities." --Working Definition of Anti-Semitism by the European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia""

let's end this discussion here since it became an argument where I'm pointing that the skies are blue and you're denying it.

:lamo You should really see the documentary "Defamation", if you have not seen it already.

You're mainly discussing here the details of that graphic and not the general idea behind it.

Wait, what!? The details, AKA the graphic itself, should not be discussed? Instead their is some sort of "general idea" that is masked in the graphic? Are you kidding me!? The actual graphic, the substance of the graphic, what the graphic states shouldnt be discussed?! But I get it, instead of discussing the substance of the graphic, and the points I raised/explained to you, you simply say, "Nope we cant discuss that we should discuss the 'general idea'" which literally can be anything and not factually represented/debated.

Saying that because it mentioned some nonsense about the US aid to Israel it's critical of the American government is beyond ridiculous.

Wait, what? Its the ****ing graphic. It does mention it.

So to refer to the main idea - no, this is absolutely not the case, there is no criticism of any policy of the Israeli government towards the Palestinian people and it's not critical of any Israeli policy,

:dohAre you kidding me. You are simply denying reality now.

if anything what you're referring to here is criticism of Israel's very existance,

Not at all.

if we can even call it "criticism" and more like opposition, and you're pretty much saying it.

Criticism is often based in a opposing position to some sort of variable...

Again for the billionth time you prove how you could care less about how illogical you may sound as long as you say that which you want.

Wow. Now your not even discussing the graphic and just screaming "NAUH! NAUH! ANTI-SEMITISM!"

Do realize you were making the claim that it's all criticism of Israel, all of these statements,

Funny you called me a liar (without backing up such claim without any evidence), because this is a flat out lie. I never said such thing, I said "the majority of this is simply criticism of Israel". Evidence can be found here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...semitic-racist-comments-3.html#post1065835007

way before it in your first post in this thread, so dishonesty continues to be your leading agenda.

False. I made a blanket statement simply saying, "Criticism of Israel is not anti-semitism". I did not refer to a speficic case, example, etc. You said "nor is any of this "criticism of Israel".. I clarified my statement by saying that the majority of this is not "anti-semitism" and is simply criticism of Israel. I did not say "all of this is not "anti-semitism", like what you are claiming here. I said "the majority of this is not anti-semitism but criticism of Israel". Again you are painting me as a liar when in fact you are the bull****ter.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Furthermore you haven't even referred to how the Zionists being in control of Birmingham University

You mean Malia Bouattia's comments of "The University of Birmingham is something of a Zionist outpost in British Higher Education."?
1.)Not saying Zionists control Birmingham
2.)She responded to a letter signed by many Jewish students in regards to that comment saying, "“I do not now, nor did I five years ago when I contributed to the article cited in your letter, see a large Jewish Society on campus as a problem. “I celebrate the ability of people and students of all backgrounds to get together and express their backgrounds and faith openly and positively, and will continue to do so. “I want to be clear that for me to take issue with Zionist politics, is not me taking issue with being Jewish. “In fact, Zionist politics are held by people from a variety of different backgrounds and faiths as are anti-Zionist politics. “It is a political argument, not one of faith.“I am deeply concerned that my faith and political views are being misconstrued and used as an opportunity to falsely accuse me of antisemitism, despite my work and dedication to liberation, equality and inclusion saying otherwise... I am alarmed that you have drawn a link between criticism of Zionist ideologies and anti-Semitism. I am sure many would strongly agree that they are not one and the same and making correlations between faith and politics is both unfair and unrepresentative. These correlations are dangerous and have become the excuse for many racist and fascist attacks up and down the country and in the world, which I am sure we all want to end." https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yyMf32rx4Ymu1YYgXMzaRP0ly8FWLrRrzuYX8iFJ5pg/edit

and how Hitler supporting Zionism are remarks that are critical of the Israeli government policies,

Ive explained this about 8 times. "Saying "Hitler supported Zionism" is not anti-semitic, thats simply being a moron and ignorant of history.".. Now saying something along the lines of "I agreed with Hitler in his final solution", now that is anti-semitic". Saying that Hitler embraced a political position he did not, in reference to the Haavara Agreement, is not anti-semitic. That is being ignorant of history. And yes, I would agree that anti-semitism is ignorant, but that does not mean all ignorant positions/statements are anti-semitic.

all you did was claim that the picture Naz Shah retweeted

Its one of the cases cited in the OP, is it not???

And it will continue to not be evidence until you'll learn what real evidence is and stop taking your information from hateful blogs that share your agenda.

Thats why you have essentially failed to reply of anything of substance after this post http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...semitic-racist-comments-6.html#post1065839891 Simply just did what you have been doing here all too often, "NAUH! NOT EVIDENCE! I SAID AMAZING EVIDENCE NOT GREAT EVIDENCE!"

Where you've claimed it's all "criticism of Israel", you've attempted to defend antisemitism by legitimizing it as criticism of Israel even though you could never manage to link between an Israeli policy and what was being said. (Zionists conrol Birmingham Uni, Hitler supported Zionism, let's dismantle Israel and move it to the US with its citizens, etc.)

1.)So essentially what Im getting from this long obtuse debate is that its anti-semitism cuz you say so
2.)If you are referring to Malia Bouattia, she never said that
3.)You literally said we cant debate the actual graphic itself and the claims made in the graphic but the "general idea" of a ironic critical graphic that does not fit the definition of anti-semitism.

Dumbest statement of the last billion years, literally the dumbest thing I have heard, especially so when we've already referred to how the image refers to the people of Israel on several occasions.

"People of Israel" does not exclusively contain Jews. Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Christians, atheists, Druze populations, etc.

 

[Wiggen]

Really? There are "few in numbers" who claim to be anti-zionist but not "anti-Jew"? :doh What kind of reality do you live in?

The reality where most of the third world and extremists on the Far Left and the Far Right long for the day when Israel no longer exists. These folks have been around for a long time and you only have to read this thread to realize that.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

The reality where most of the third world and extremists on the Far Left and the Far Right long for the day when Israel no longer exists. These folks have been around for a long time and you only have to read this thread to realize that.

Being for a "one state solution" does not automatically make one an anti-semite