UK Labour Party reportedly suspends 50 members over anti-Semitic, racist comments

[Rogue Valley]

UK Labour Party reportedly suspends 50 members over anti-Semitic, racist comments


Labour Crisis: Polls Predict Massive Party Losses


Ugly and getting uglier.

 

[calm]

And this is election year in America and the identical tactics will be used against anyone running for office who does not express total support for Israel.

In addition, there will be billions of dollars in military and social programs for the Israeli Folks as each member of congress attempts to show that they deserve contributions from Israel supporters.

Calm

 

[gunner]

And this is election year in America and the identical tactics will be used against anyone running for office who does not express total support for Israel.

In addition, there will be billions of dollars in military and social programs for the Israeli Folks as each member of congress attempts to show that they deserve contributions from Israel supporters.

Calm

This is the European forum, not for issues relating to America.

 

[PeteEU]

UK Labour Party reportedly suspends 50 members over anti-Semitic, racist comments


Labour Crisis: Polls Predict Massive Party Losses


Ugly and getting uglier.

Wonder when the Tories get around to doing the same... even though I suspect most of it is totally over reaction like the two more public examples are.. I mean it is hilarious that a several year old public facebook share done before said person ever got elected, suddenly just before a major election in London and locally.. it suddenly pops up and all hell breaks lose..

 

[gunner]

Suspended Newport councillor denies anti-Semitism allegations - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2016-wales-36202016

 

[gunner]

Wonder when the Tories get around to doing the same... even though I suspect most of it is totally over reaction like the two more public examples are.. I mean it is hilarious that a several year old public facebook share done before said person ever got elected, suddenly just before a major election in London and locally.. it suddenly pops up and all hell breaks lose..

Most of the disclosures are coming from the Guy Fawkes website. Do you know who is behind that? I've not looked....

 

[Chagos]

Most of the disclosures are coming from the Guy Fawkes website. Do you know who is behind that? I've not looked....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Staines

This is the site: Guido Fawkes

 

[Chagos]

Wonder when the Tories get around to doing the same... even though I suspect most of it is totally over reaction like the two more public examples are.. I mean it is hilarious that a several year old public facebook share done before said person ever got elected, suddenly just before a major election in London and locally.. it suddenly pops up and all hell breaks lose..

Wouldn't you agree thought that motive (for disclosure) and time stamp kinda pale in relation to what actually happened?

I mean, does one deal with the actual issue or shoot those reporting it?

 

[PeteEU]

Wouldn't you agree thought that motive (for disclosure) and time stamp kinda pale in relation to what actually happened?

I mean, does one deal with the actual issue or shoot those reporting it?

First of all the post is not anti-Semitic. Being critical of Israel is not anti-Semitic.

Secondly, the timing is convenient. Shoot the people reporting is a must because why come with it now, and not 2 years ago or when she was running for her seat? It is not like this post was secret..

Thirdly, what are the motives and links of those starting this crap? I suspect they are highly connected to the Tories.

Lastly why now? London Mayoral elections.. and other local elections that look like an utter slaughtering of the Tories.

 

[Chagos]

First of all the post is not anti-Semitic. Being critical of Israel is not anti-Semitic.

Well, we're going to have to disagree on what constitutes anti-semitism. Being critical of past and present Israeli policies does not constitute it by default, there I'd agree with you.

However, I don't agree that the suggestion of total relocation (and thus dismemberment of an existing state) of a whole people is equal to "simply" being critical of policy. And that suggestion, by all we know, is one of the "more harmless" spouts.

Secondly, the timing is convenient. Shoot the people reporting is a must because why come with it now, and not 2 years ago or when she was running for her seat? It is not like this post was secret..

Thirdly, what are the motives and links of those starting this crap? I suspect they are highly connected to the Tories.

Lastly why now? London Mayoral elections.. and other local elections that look like an utter slaughtering of the Tories.

Where anti-semitic remarks were posted (and the "more harmless" one may be "just" suggesting relocation), that takes precedence over anything else.

I don't care when it was said or what ulterior motives exist (and I'd not dispute their existence) for bringing it up now, the fact remains that the remarks, posts, tweets etc. were made. No ulterior motive or convenient timing of publishing this makes them become un-made.

 

[gunner]

First of all the post is not anti-Semitic. Being critical of Israel is not anti-Semitic.

Secondly, the timing is convenient. Shoot the people reporting is a must because why come with it now, and not 2 years ago or when she was running for her seat? It is not like this post was secret..

Thirdly, what are the motives and links of those starting this crap? I suspect they are highly connected to the Tories.

Lastly why now? London Mayoral elections.. and other local elections that look like an utter slaughtering of the Tories.

But the large majority of these drip fed exposures are for the promulgation of comments that are for the relocation, of an entire country. How can this alone not constitute anti-Semitism?

 

[Chagos]

But the large majority of these drip fed exposures are for the promulgation of comments that are for the relocation, of an entire country.

........not to mention the dismemberment of an already existing (politically, geographically, spiritually) state.

How can this alone not constitute anti-Semitism?

It's the conundrum that those face that also believe one can be just a little pregnant.

 

[Manc Skipper]

But the large majority of these drip fed exposures are for the promulgation of comments that are for the relocation, of an entire country. How can this alone not constitute anti-Semitism?

Perhaps the guy who published the map she reposted could clarify:

"The American political scientist who posted the diagram that triggered an antisemitism row in the Labour Party has dismissed the furore as “obscene”.

Norman G Finkelstein, a Jewish author whose parents survived concentration camps during the Holocaust, said he published the map shared by Naz Shah on his blog in 2014.
Entitled “Solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict – relocate Israel to into United States”, it went up on his website on 4 August, the day before the future Bradford West MP shared it on her Facebook page.
Mr Finkelstein said he posted the map because he found it funny, claiming that such “jokes are commonplace in the US”.
..."

Jewish author whose Israel 'relocation' map was shared by Naz Shah condemns 'obscene' Labour antisemitism row | UK Politics | News | The Independent

 

[Manc Skipper]

While we're on the subject of racist comments, perhaps the accusers shouldn't be throwing stones.

 

[gunner]

Perhaps the guy who published the map she reposted could clarify:

"The American political scientist who posted the diagram that triggered an antisemitism row in the Labour Party has dismissed the furore as “obscene”.

Norman G Finkelstein, a Jewish author whose parents survived concentration camps during the Holocaust, said he published the map shared by Naz Shah on his blog in 2014.
Entitled “Solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict – relocate Israel to into United States”, it went up on his website on 4 August, the day before the future Bradford West MP shared it on her Facebook page.
Mr Finkelstein said he posted the map because he found it funny, claiming that such “jokes are commonplace in the US”.
..."

Jewish author whose Israel 'relocation' map was shared by Naz Shah condemns 'obscene' Labour antisemitism row | UK Politics | News | The Independent

To my knowledge Naz Shah et al have not claimed that the comments were a joke. You have a different story?

 

[PeteEU]

But the large majority of these drip fed exposures are for the promulgation of comments that are for the relocation, of an entire country. How can this alone not constitute anti-Semitism?

Because that country is not a country based on a religion. There are also Israeli Christians and Muslims. Does it the facebook post distinguish between them? Not that I remember.

 

[PeteEU]

Well, we're going to have to disagree on what constitutes anti-semitism. Being critical of past and present Israeli policies does not constitute it by default, there I'd agree with you.

Okay that sets a baseline.

However, I don't agree that the suggestion of total relocation (and thus dismemberment of an existing state) of a whole people is equal to "simply" being critical of policy. And that suggestion, by all we know, is one of the "more harmless" spouts.

Where does it say dismemberment? It says move only if I remember right. So move it to the US.. some state and force the people there to accept Israel as their new ruler. The world has done it before...

Where anti-semitic remarks were posted (and the "more harmless" one may be "just" suggesting relocation), that takes precedence over anything else.

A public post 3+ years ago.. and it only now comes out just up to an election? You dont smell a rat?

I don't care when it was said or what ulterior motives exist (and I'd not dispute their existence) for bringing it up now, the fact remains that the remarks, posts, tweets etc. were made. No ulterior motive or convenient timing of publishing this makes them become un-made.

Yes and it is debatable if they were anti-Semitic or not. That is the problem with how the term "anti-Semitic" has been used the last 30 years.. it can mean anything now days, just as the word terrorist.

As for the motive of the original post... that is clear as well. People were rightfully pissed over the Gaza war and what Israel was doing. Are they not allowed to protest that? Plus where is the outrage by the very same people who are claiming anti-Semitism over this post, when Israeli politicians (even in government) suggested that all Muslims be deported out of Israel?

 

[Manc Skipper]

To my knowledge Naz Shah et al have not claimed that the comments were a joke. You have a different story?

It was a satirical joke facebook meme. A picture with a map of Israel superimposed on the USA, illustrating that AIPAC could set up their own country within their own country instead of occupying somebody elses.

 

[gunner]

It was a satirical joke facebook meme. A picture with a map of Israel superimposed on the USA, illustrating that AIPAC could set up their own country within their own country instead of occupying somebody elses.

Who is occupying somebody else's country?

 

[Manc Skipper]

It's complicated.

 

[Apocalypse]

It was a satirical joke facebook meme. A picture with a map of Israel superimposed on the USA, illustrating that AIPAC could set up their own country within their own country instead of occupying somebody elses.

I didn't see any reference to it being a joke nor to AIPAC actually occupying any country.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Maybe removing your head from whatever place you keep it would open up new vistas.

Norman Finkelstein:
"... But I did post the map on my website in 2014. An email correspondent must have sent it. It was, and still is, funny. Were it not for the current political context, nobody would have noticed Shah’s reposting of it either. Otherwise, you’d have to be humourless. These sorts of jokes are a commonplace in the U.S. So, we have this joke: Why doesn’t Israel become the 51st state? Answer: Because then, it would only have two senators. As crazy as the discourse on Israel is in America, at least we still have a sense of humour. It’s inconceivable that any politician in the U.S. would be crucified for posting such a map.

Shah’s posting of that image has been presented as an endorsement by her of a ‘chilling “transportation” policy’, while John Mann MP has compared her to Eichmann.

Frankly, I find that obscene. It’s doubtful these Holocaust-mongers have a clue what the deportations were, or of the horrors that attended them. ... "

https://opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-...h-scholar-behind-labour-s-antisemitism-scanda

 

[gunner]

It's complicated.

Can you expand? As it stands, it seems you support the expulsion of a people from their country.

 

[Apocalypse]

Maybe removing your head from whatever place you keep it would open up new vistas.

Norman Finkelstein:
"... But I did post the map on my website in 2014. An email correspondent must have sent it. It was, and still is, funny. Were it not for the current political context, nobody would have noticed Shah’s reposting of it either. Otherwise, you’d have to be humourless. These sorts of jokes are a commonplace in the U.S. So, we have this joke: Why doesn’t Israel become the 51st state? Answer: Because then, it would only have two senators. As crazy as the discourse on Israel is in America, at least we still have a sense of humour. It’s inconceivable that any politician in the U.S. would be crucified for posting such a map.

Shah’s posting of that image has been presented as an endorsement by her of a ‘chilling “transportation” policy’, while John Mann MP has compared her to Eichmann.

Frankly, I find that obscene. It’s doubtful these Holocaust-mongers have a clue what the deportations were, or of the horrors that attended them. ... "

https://opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-...h-scholar-behind-labour-s-antisemitism-scanda

First of all quote the post you're replying to.

Then notice that I was speaking of Naz Shah, not of the original poster of that image who is Norman Finklestein and whom I already recognize is claiming it was a joke. (He's too much of a far-left nutjob for anyone to care about what he does) Naz Shah didn't say anywhere it was a joke and it's actually a very popular position among anti-Israeli/Zionist/Semites/whatever loons and is very often proposed by those loons even on this site.

Finally I'm still waiting for any reference to "AIPAC occupying another country" which is your own very dumb remark and as a matter of change not a dumb remark you've taken from some other dumb guy you adore for having the same mental issues you do.
I'm going to already guess I'm not going to get that reference knowing how loyal you are to your values. You know, dishonesty, lies, absolute ignorance.

 

[Arkantos]

Can you expand? As it stands, it seems you support the expulsion of a people from their country.

Would you be fine with creating a new country within the UK for Muslim war refugees?