UK EU referendum [W:40:728]

[gunner]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Corbyn's guilty of being luke-warm about the benefits of European union. He's hardly to blame for the nation being in this position. He didn't apply austerity. He didn't call the referendum and he isn't to blame for current levels of immigration.

The European centre-right, you know, those in charge, are guilty of pushing British people away from the project with their austerity-only strategy and horrific mishandling of the Greek crisis. Cameron berates the Brexit concentration on migration when he used it as a major plank of his re-election campaign last year and used the dog-whistle 'swarms' terminology to talk about migrants and asylum seekers. Hardly surprising he's being hung out to dry on the migration issue.

You're right Corbyn isn't to blame for what has preceded his time as leader, but he's certainly to blame for not coming up with a credible counter narrative, going forward. He's lukewarm in everything he does. Like I keep saying, he's for a niche market.

 

[Andalublue]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

You're right Corbyn isn't to blame for what has preceded his time as leader, but he's certainly to blame for not coming up with a credible counter narrative, going forward. He's lukewarm in everything he does. Like I keep saying, he's for a niche market.

Yes Paul, we got the memo. You don't like Corbyn.

 

[gunner]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Yes Paul, we got the memo. You don't like Corbyn.

It has nothing to do with like or dislike rather, whether he is up to the task of unifying the country under a Labour banner. Unfortunately, even with a Conservative party at loggerheads, he just doesn’t seem able. A real shame.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

• Norwegians to Britons: Look closely at life outside the E.U. By Griff Witte

OSLO, Norway — To advocates of a British exit from the European Union, the prosperous and fjord-flecked lands of Norway prove that the doomsayers have it all wrong.
Life within Europe but outside the clutches of the E.U. isn’t apocalyptic. It’s the best of all worlds: Norway gets access to Earth’s largest single market without sacrificing its sovereignty.
But to this country’s political and business leaders, Britain’s flirtation with the Norwegian model is nothing short of baffling.
If Britain votes to leave the E.U. on June 23 and follows Norway’s lead as an E.U. outsider, officials here say, the British should be prepared for less control over their own affairs, not more. That is because Norway still must abide by E.U. rules and regulations, even though it has no say in shaping them. . . .

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

But to this country’s political and business leaders, Britain’s flirtation with the Norwegian model is nothing short of baffling.

indeed, and not surprisingly either.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Yes Paul, we got the memo. You don't like Corbyn.

Corbyn's appearance on "The Last Leg" at the weekend surprised many with his humour and directness.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

• Norwegians to Britons: Look closely at life outside the E.U. By Griff Witte

OSLO, Norway — To advocates of a British exit from the European Union, the prosperous and fjord-flecked lands of Norway prove that the doomsayers have it all wrong.
Life within Europe but outside the clutches of the E.U. isn’t apocalyptic. It’s the best of all worlds: Norway gets access to Earth’s largest single market without sacrificing its sovereignty.
But to this country’s political and business leaders, Britain’s flirtation with the Norwegian model is nothing short of baffling.
If Britain votes to leave the E.U. on June 23 and follows Norway’s lead as an E.U. outsider, officials here say, the British should be prepared for less control over their own affairs, not more. That is because Norway still must abide by E.U. rules and regulations, even though it has no say in shaping them. . . .

The Norway model has far less sovereignty, than if they were a member. They have no control of their borders because they have to follow EU rules. They have little to no control over regulations (business) because they have to follow EU rules as part of their access to the common market. They pay into the EU and yet have zero say.. great sovereignty... or lack of it.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

• Norwegians to Britons: Look closely at life outside the E.U. By Griff Witte

OSLO, Norway — To advocates of a British exit from the European Union, the prosperous and fjord-flecked lands of Norway prove that the doomsayers have it all wrong.
Life within Europe but outside the clutches of the E.U. isn’t apocalyptic. It’s the best of all worlds: Norway gets access to Earth’s largest single market without sacrificing its sovereignty.
But to this country’s political and business leaders, Britain’s flirtation with the Norwegian model is nothing short of baffling.
If Britain votes to leave the E.U. on June 23 and follows Norway’s lead as an E.U. outsider, officials here say, the British should be prepared for less control over their own affairs, not more. That is because Norway still must abide by E.U. rules and regulations, even though it has no say in shaping them. . . .

As I've said several times since it became clear to me a Brexit would see Scotland leave and the UK diminished (possibly other regions too). We won't have the clout to negotiate anything other than a deal like Norway or Switzerland which means we will end up with the same situation as we have now but less say and less rebate on anything we pay in.

I'm for a two speed Europe, those wishing for a federal structure can go ahead while others can stay out of the Eurozone and still gain trading benefits.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Britain's Coming Independence Day
Douglas Carswell, New York Times

CLACTON, England — It wasn’t supposed to be like this. The original plan of Prime Minister David Cameron was to call a referendum on Britain’s membership in the European Union, renegotiate new terms with the powers that be in Brussels and then use the machinery of government to persuade people to vote to remain.
A source in Downing Street tells me that Mr. Cameron’s circle was expecting the Remain campaign to be comfortably ahead by now. Yet, little more than a week before the referendum, the polls show that the two camps are neck and neck. Although the Leave campaign — of which I am a founding member — is still the underdog, there is a real chance that Britain will vote for independence from the European Union on June 23.
What is going on? There is an honorable, decent case for Britain to stay in the union. The problem for the Remain camp is that no one has been making it. . . .

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]



[h=3]Is the Brexit camp about to triumph?[/h]
A shift in popular opinion for Britain to exit the European Union is unmistakable.

• Robert J. Samuelson
• ·
• 1 day ago

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]



[h=3]The economic shock of a ‘Brexit’[/h]
Most people expect financial bumps if Great Britain votes to leave the European Union, but they are wildly underestimating the turmoil.

• Sebastian Mallaby
• ·
• 9 hours ago

 

[polgara]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

[h=3]Is the Brexit camp about to triumph?[/h]
A shift in popular opinion for Britain to exit the European Union is unmistakable.

• Robert J. Samuelson
• ·
• 1 day ago

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

It will be interesting to read the comments from the British people themselves after the voting is done. I agree with those voting to leave on the forced immigration dispute alone. As usual, we probably aren't hearing the whole story, but the new mayor of London hadn't even got his chair warmed before he issued a ban on what might be advertised on public transportation so as not to "offend" muslims! WTH? The UK got along very well without them, as did the rest of the EU countries for that matter, and I expect them to continue to do so, and any talk about "economic problems if they leave" is just scary supposition at this point! :thumbdown: Time will provide the answer...

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

It will be interesting to read the comments from the British people themselves after the voting is done. I agree with those voting to leave on the forced immigration dispute alone. As usual, we probably aren't hearing the whole story, IMO, but the new mayor of London hadn't even got his chair warmed before he issued a ban on what might be advertised on public transportation so as not to "offend" muslims! WTH? The UK got along very well without them, as did the rest of the EU countries for that matter, and I expect them to continue to do so, and any talk about "economic problems if they leave" is just scary supposition at this point! :thumbdown: Time will provide the answer...

Greetings, Polgara.:2wave:

At this point I think both sides are so desperate I take everything with a grain of salt.:roll:

 

[gunner]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Greetings, Polgara.:2wave:

At this point I think both sides are so desperate I take everything with a grain of salt.:roll:

It has got to that point with many here in the UK. The level of scare mongering is a massive turn off for a lot of people. The question, whether this will transpose into people voting a particular way, is less clear. To my mind, the out campaign looks to be on the ascendency.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

[h=3]Will the European Union survive?[/h]
Concerns over how the E.U. has handled security, economic growth and mass migration are shared by Britain and the rest of Europe.

• Charles Lane
• ·
• 22 hours ago

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

It has got to that point with many here in the UK. The level of scare mongering is a massive turn off for a lot of people. The question, whether this will transpose into people voting a particular way, is less clear. To my mind, the out campaign looks to be on the ascendency.

It is pretty clear that the Elites over reliance on that tactic to keep the little people in line has run its course. I will be expecting to see in the post mortems that this one one of the biggest reasons for this late massive shift towards exit, that the little people are reacting to this fear mongering by saying "wow, the reasons for leaving must be really good if they are that desperate to manipulate us into staying".

I note the fearmongering also did not keep Trump from gaining the most votes ever for a R primary candidate, we are seeing a wide scale tuning out of the claims of the manipulators.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

It is pretty clear that the Elites over reliance on that tactic to keep the little people in line has run its course. I will be expecting to see in the post mortems that this one one of the biggest reasons for this late massive shift towards exit, that the little people are reacting to this fear mongering by saying "wow, the reasons for leaving must be really good if they are that desperate to manipulate us into staying".

I note the fearmongering also did not keep Trump from gaining the most votes ever for a R primary candidate, we are seeing a wide scale tuning out of the claims of the manipulators.

There is fear mongering on both sides. Both sides have exaggerated, embellished or basically lied about certain facts and the one that is getting the most traction is that we would be able to negotiate some kind of deal that doesn't include free movement of people across Europe and the UK.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

There is fear mongering on both sides. Both sides have exaggerated, embellished or basically lied about certain facts and the one that is getting the most traction is that we would be able to negotiate some kind of deal that doesn't include free movement of people across Europe and the UK.

That does not negate my "It's a elite manipulation of the little people tactic, and they are SICK of it" argument.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

That does not negate my "It's a elite manipulation of the little people tactic, and they are SICK of it" argument.

I wasn't negating - I was explaining that BOTH sides have done it. The most successful side at the moment has the lie about controlling EU immigration.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

[h=2]What A ‘Brexit’ Could Mean For The Economy[/h]By Ben Casselman

 

[cpgrad08]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I'm all in for the UK to leave the EU.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

From the NYT's homepage since I am used up for the month for free stuff:

Regardless of whether Britain leaves, experts say, the E.U. has to recognize its failings in the crises of the past decade — the tribulations of the euro, the debt standoff with Greece and a flawed approach to migration

The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia

Darn tootin.

It is not only the USA Elite who have failed as a class to do their jobs well and also failed to be honest about that, the EU Elite have the same problem.

The people have had it.

ITS COFFEE TIME!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

A petition to cancel next week’s European Union referendum has surged in support in support in the days following the killing of MP Jo Cox.

As of lunchtime on Saturday over 20,000 people have signed ~ Link

I don't think the referendum should be cancelled, we are engaged in a democratic process and anyway, Parliament can't be recalled to debate a delay.

 

[Kiwimac]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I don't think the referendum should be cancelled, we are engaged in a democratic process and anyway, Parliament can't be recalled to debate a delay.

The Queen can recall Parliament at her pleasure at any time.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

The Queen can recall Parliament at her pleasure at any time.

This page will help you understand who can. However in another way, you are onto something as Parliament has been recalled for tomorrow by the Speaker to pay tribute to Jo Cox.