U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war (1 Viewer)

[anatta]

It may very well be that American manufacturing is beyond saving but we need to try. As a reminder, China has much grander, more sophisticated, and far more subtle geopolitical designs than the United States. Defining quality of life by the American obsession with instant gratification and cheap goods is going to be the end of us sooner or later.

American manufacturing is expanding. Eli Lilly announces 4 new plants. Hyundai etc. With the rise of AI even "dark factories" are going to need skilled labor. We are still leading AI, albeit China is making a push

There are also traditional factories that can use less skilled labor. anything manufactured here helps the US economy in general and creates US wealth

 

[Chomsky]

Honestly that's comical. First no one knows the ending framework for any deal and what China has given up (and they will be the side giving up the majority). And I fail to see how Chinese citizens who are in the middle of a major economic disruption in their country are now going to thrive by any measure. Their housing market which for decades is where the average Chinese citizen stored their wealth is in complete collapse and the Chinese government is struggling to put forth meaningful economic stimulus because they're running a debt to GOP of over 300%.

I can't speak to China's other possible problems, but Chinese citizens came-out far ahead of us after today's deal.

At this juncture, China gave up nothing. And that's what I'm basing my comments upon.

Anything else to come out remains to be seen.

But you seem to be premising that the current pain was needed to get whatever you believe may occur.

I disagree with that premise. I saw no reason to cause this pain. So that Trump unnecessarily hurt us, and now has pulled back to hurt us a little less, unnecessarily, gives me no reason to applaud.

 

[dobieg]

There's no taxes on the rich in the bill right now. It doesn't get rid of taxes on social security. Not sure if there's anything on the carried interest loophole or if it even gets passed the mark up stage.

There sure as hell better be.

 

[ajn678]

I guess smarmy liberals who view everyone else as their lessers would think that.

I don't think you're less. I think you're wrong.

 

[dobieg]

I can't speak to China's other possible problems, but Chinese citizens came-out far ahead of us after today's deal.

At this juncture, China gave up nothing. And that's what I'm basing my comments upon.

Anything else to come out remains to be seen.

But you seem to be premising that the current pain was needed to get whatever you believe may occur.

I disagree with that premise. I saw no reason to cause this pain. So that Trump unnecessarily hurt us, and now has pulled back to hurt us a little less, unnecessarily, gives me no reason to applaud.

I just don't see how we can come to any conclusion until an agreement is reached.

It certaily won't be nothing for nothing.

 

[Chomsky]

Somewhere in their is the point that competition COULD arise.

I'm doubtful that competition arises here in the States as the cost of production would be much more than 30%, but other countries might be some.

"Other" countries are already doing 87% of our imports. Were you aware?

 

[dobieg]

I don't think you're less. I think you're wrong.

Well then just say that rather than implying there's some inherent inferiority with being born in a trailer park.

To this day I'm just as comfortable rubbing elbows with someone from a trailer park as I am a person from a higher end subdivision. In fact sometimes it seems you get more honesty from the former.

 

[Chomsky]

It didn't take a month before China capitulated.

How is that?

China got Trump to reduce tariffs, without giving Trump a thing.

 

[Chomsky]

Our politicians in DC have been addressing it for decades. Have you or anyone else seen any positives coming out of our leaders kindly explaining our concerns to China?

I can't say I've seen it.

But that's neither here nor there.

Why didn't Trump negotiate? That's the big question.

 

[anatta]

Well then just say that rather than implying there's some inherent inferiority with being born in a trailer park.

To this day I'm just as comfortable rubbing elbows with someone from a trailer park as I am a person from a higher end subdivision. In fact sometimes it seems you get more honesty from the former.

Fanfare for the Common Man (Aaron Copland) . Emerson Lake and Palmer do a great rendition

 

[maxparrish]

We’re not just talking about toys, clothes, small appliances here. There’s copyright infringement, patent protection, intellectual property rights, and on and on that the Chinese have refused to honor thereby stealing from the pockets of the owners. The Chinese don’t honor these because under communist ideology there’s no such thing as individual property rights.

Or they don't honor them perhaps because Chinese culture, like Russian culture, never has developed a sense of honor in meeting one's obligations. I can't recall who but a major businessman told of his experience in China in making a deal, meeting for a photo op with the second party to the agreement in a public space for dignitaries to were waiting to attend the sign.

He said he sat down at the table but insisted on reading the "final" document before the ceremonial signing. His Chinese counterpart and changed the terms to significantly pay more than what was agreed upon. His Chinese counterpart said "This is okay, right? We need to sign momentarily". The US businessman said "No, this is not what we agreed on. I am leaving." His Chinese counterpart quickly crossed out the new fees, so that the American would sign".

This was, according to the businessman typical in dealing with Chinese business. A friend of mine who manages trucking says the Japanese are shamed if they overlooked a bill and quickly resolve it. The Chinese, on the other hand, will lie, obstruct, and make excuses to not pay their bills. He hates dealing with China's Chinese.

 

[Chomsky]

Someone is embelishing to make their child look good. My wife has hired Chinese for 3 different tech companies and at 'best' they would be somewhere around 1/3 the payscale of someone in the US.

I appreciate this, thanks.

If so, then I wonder if the young man might have found Chinese girlfriend - and needed an excuse to leave mom?

 

[Lutherf]

American manufacturing is expanding. Eli Lilly announces 4 new plants. Hyundai etc. With the rise of AI even "dark factories" are going to need skilled labor. We are still leading AI, albeit China is making a push

There are also traditional factories that can use less skilled labor. anything manufactured here helps the US economy in general and creates US wealth

We have to put a stop to this! If Trump is successful in these dealings and the American economy thrives then...well, ****...then....I don't know but it's gonna be bad and we're all gonna die!

 

[Chomsky]

I’m sure a big part of this is a battle of egos. As noted previously, this trade war was started by Biden in September. I’m sure Trump doesn’t want China’s retaliation for that in December to go unanswered. And vise versa for Xi. So here we are.

No this trade war wasn't "started by Biden".

Biden's actions were minimal, this is Trump's Trade War.

 

[Ethel2]

Yes! King Trump graciously reduced the price of Chinese imports from 145% to 30%. How can that not be good for us peasants? King Trump is truly looking out for us.

Under Sleepy Joe, China was robbing us blind. They were forcing us to buy their goods at a much lower price, and that is bad for the King's coffers. At 30%, we can make sure the King has plenty of gold to hold elaborate feasts with his court.

Long live King Trump!

How else could the sex offender fund his upcoming tax cut for the rich package?

 

[dcsports]

U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war

The world’s two biggest economies agreed to a 90-day pause on most of their levies after a first round of trade talks in Switzerland over the weekend.

www.nbcnews.com

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In an easing the US-China Trade War, tariffs will temporarily drop for 90 days

However under the current agreement, American citizens will be paying a 30% tax on imported goods - while Chinese citizens will only be paying a 10% tax.

Is this a good deal for American citizens?

Long term - yes, that's a good deal.

The problem with trading with China is that they don't operate on a level playing field with the rest of the world. Why can they manufacture things so cheaply? At a price low enough that it's worth shipping their stuff around the globe? Because they don't care about their people - they pay them slave wages and have no worker's rights. Because they don't care about the environment - pumping out 1/3 of the world's emissions. Because they don't care about intellectual property rights. And we're paying them to continue that cycle.

So yes, it absolutely makes sense to tax the crap out of their goods to both provide an economic incentive to shift trade elsewhere AND push them to move toward acting like a civilized country.

 

[Cope]

"Other" countries are already doing 87% of our imports. Were you aware?

The where only matters if we have sway over that country.

We have very little over China.

 

[maxparrish]

People will only buy the product at +30% if they think it's worth +30%. For a lot of stuff, they won't. They'll buy something similar from another seller, or spend their money on something they think provides more value. That forces the exporter to reduce the price, or the importer to take a hit on the profit margin. In either case, the result is a product that may cost consumers more, but not +30%. People are pretty value-conscious.

Except that is not how it works, nor has that been found true in practice. The importer is not charged anything, the person who receives the goods is charged a 30 percent tariff tax. Studies from the first Trump tariff war found that 93 percent of the tariff loss is by the person receiving (at least for the US side) buying the good, and only 7 percent is borne by the seller.

Moreover like any excise type tax there is not only a loss for the consumer but also a loss in having to buy substitution products which they perceive as inferior but for the new cost imposed on the products from China they wish to buy.

And it has been shown that when tariffs are raised, the substitution products also go up in price due to reduced competition and scarcity.

 

[Phys251]

China is already spinning this as a win for them.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/12/china-trade-trump-tariffs-beijing.html

Shit on that all you want, but remember that China's global influence is growing, and an unstable US presidency helps fuel that.

 

[iguanaman]

I’m sure you believe that but the devil is the details. Who was hiring during Biden Administration? The government and the hospitality industry were responsible for the majority of job growth. If you think cleaning shit stains from the toilet for minimum wage is the American dream then you root for that. In terms of the trade war, Biden started in September so your CT doesn’t hold water.

As is usual you spout unsupported right wing lies while my claims come with receipts. Nearly 800,000 manufacturing jobs were created under Biden and over 200,000 of those are new jobs that did not exist pre-covid.

 

[Chomsky]

This is a gob-smackingly stupid argument.

Every business that gets materials from China will have a big tax increase.

It’s not just end consumers who are affected. Now, a business that assembles Chinese components in Canada has a 30% advantage in the world market relative to one that assembles them in the US.

MAGA is getting fooled here, the flip-flop on hilarious numbers was just a smoke screen to get you to accept the needless 30% tax increase.

Bingo! Excellent point.

And let's not forget that the Canadian manufactured widget now becomes more competitive for domestic American consumption! Giving it competitive advantage over the American produced products it was supposed to protect!

Shazzam!

 

[Chomsky]

First you have to show them you're serious by making outrageous threats and then mostly backing down.

Haha!

 

[Chomsky]

Yes.

But haven't we been trying that for the past 2 decades? In fact I can't recall a president since Clinton who hasn't raised concerns numerous time with China.

I didn't see Trump try a thing.

 

[Airyaman]

Long term - yes, that's a good deal.

The problem with trading with China is that they don't operate on a level playing field with the rest of the world. Why can they manufacture things so cheaply? At a price low enough that it's worth shipping their stuff around the globe? Because they don't care about their people - they pay them slave wages and have no worker's rights. Because they don't care about the environment - pumping out 1/3 of the world's emissions. Because they don't care about intellectual property rights. And we're paying them to continue that cycle.

So yes, it absolutely makes sense to tax the crap out of their goods to both provide an economic incentive to shift trade elsewhere AND push them to move toward acting like a civilized country.

So which country should we shift to that will 1) pay their workers higher wages and 2) be better stewards of the environment (as if MAGA ever cared about that, lol)?

India? Vietnam? Sri Lanka? Cambodia?

 

[Chomsky]

What? China dropped its tariffs to 10%. What do you mean we got nothing out of it?

The reason for applying the tariffs, ostensibly, was to rectify a host of claimed trade problems. Not one of the "problems" was addressed.