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U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war

This is a load of felon created bullshit. He created an emergency so that he could “fix it” and take “credit” for a great deal with China. In fact the bottom line is that all he did was slap a 30% tax on goods imported from China, a tax that American consumers will pay so that he can fun perpetuating his 2017 tax cuts which mostly benefit the wealthy.
Just a real scumbag. He’s fooling nobody but the MAGAT cult.
 
Chomsky said:
The reason for applying the tariffs, ostensibly, was to rectify a host of claimed trade problems. Not one of the "problems" was addressed.
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You mean China can continue to “rip us off” without penalty?
Shocking!!
 
Chomsky said:
I can't speak to China's other possible problems, but Chinese citizens came-out far ahead of us after today's deal.

At this juncture, China gave up nothing. And that's what I'm basing my comments upon.

Anything else to come out remains to be seen.

But you seem to be premising that the current pain was needed to get whatever you believe may occur.

I disagree with that premise. I saw no reason to cause this pain. So that Trump unnecessarily hurt us, and now has pulled back to hurt us a little less, unnecessarily, gives me no reason to applaud.
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The problem is that China is coming at Trump from a position of strength. Trump couldn't risk a full embargo and we're likely to feel the effects regardless from Trump's Trade War as is. China, on the other had, is making deals with other countries and while a huge trade war with the US would still hurt them, they had the advantage. Trump was forced to walk back the majority of his tariffs to get this ceasefire and China had to give up pretty much nothing.
 
dobieg said:
Naw. Other countries are crying uncle.

No way proud China comes to the table if they weren't in a world of hurt.
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The specific topic was the rising markets on today's news.
 
Airyaman said:
So which country should we shift to that will 1) pay their workers higher wages and 2) be better stewards of the environment (as if MAGA ever cared about that, lol)?

India? Vietnam? Sri Lanka? Cambodia?
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"MAGA" is a straw man.

We absolutely should care about the environment, human rights, and intellectual property. We should shift to other countries that do value those more - and have higher costs as a result. Otherwise, we're supporting those things. We're encouraging the pollution, etc.

Certainly, the left plays lip service to these, but little else. When it comes to China's exploding pollution issue, they throw up their hands and say 'they're developing!'

Where to shift? Mexico would be a great start - I'd rather develop our neighbor. Taiwan? South Korea? Vietnam?
 
dobieg said:
I guess smarmy liberals who view everyone else as their lessers would think that.
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Do you know why @ttwtt78640 has the handle he has? Perhaps he'll share it with you, if he so chooses. You might be surprised!

(or maybe he'll prefer not to share - we'll see)

These are some low-blows being handed-out. Good for you for holding your head high! (y)
 
maxparrish said:
Except that is not how it works, nor has that been found true in practice. The importer is not charged anything, the person who receives the goods is charged a 30 percent tariff tax. Studies from the first Trump tariff war found that 93 percent of the tariff loss is by the person receiving (at least for the US side) buying the good, and only 7 percent is borne by the seller.
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I'll take your word for it that in practice it hasn't fleshed out that way. Theoretically he's right though.
If a seller (like China) has a 40% profit margin (just go with it), then can certainly cut pricing on their side to offset the tariff. It could also spur competition to more friendly trade partners.
maxparrish said:
Moreover like any excise type tax there is not only a loss for the consumer but also a loss in having to buy substitution products which they perceive as inferior but for the new cost imposed on the products from China they wish to buy.
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The consumer in this case might certainly pay more for a similar product but if it is from a friendly instead of an adversary, it might have worth there .
maxparrish said:
And it has been shown that when tariffs are raised, the substitution products also go up in price due to reduced competition and scarcity.
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I really wish that we would have started the balancing process ages ago (to keep some of the manufacturing here in the US) but we have no one to blame but ourselves for wanting things as cheap as possible.
 
Peacenik said:
True that. And there is definitely something to be said in getting a point across in fewer words!
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Thanks.

Unfortunately I can't claim it as mine . . . I just once glimpsed it on the interwebs somewhere . . .
 
dcsports said:
"MAGA" is a straw man.

We absolutely should care about the environment, human rights, and intellectual property. We should shift to other countries that do value those more - and have higher costs as a result. Otherwise, we're supporting those things. We're encouraging the pollution, etc.

Certainly, the left plays lip service to these, but little else. When it comes to China's exploding pollution issue, they throw up their hands and say 'they're developing!'

Where to shift? Mexico would be a great start - I'd rather develop our neighbor. Taiwan? South Korea? Vietnam?
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We have 25% tariffs on Mexico and Trump broke his own trade deal with them. Taiwan's wages are almost the same level as the US, so probably no cheap goods there. Their largest trading partner is China, so alot of their stuff will probably be built there. South Koreans get paid more than US citizens and they source alot of their stuff from China (it's their largest trading partner). Vietnam pays less than China and their pollution is just as bad.

Any other suggestions?
 
anatta said:
Because China was happy with the status quo. China trade deficit is a TRILLION every 3 years. China gets to export and restrict imports.
(I won't list them all you know the like IP theft and Patent drafts exposure. SEO cash infusions , and regulatory hurdles to their markets).

Basically China is happy with their malign trade practices. The tariffs (just like phase 1 under Trump 45)
mean China cannot sit back with delays and empty promises and run out the clock on 47
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Right, but none of this changes the fact the administration did not try to negotiate first with no indication the Chinese wouldn't have agreed.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Right, but none of this changes the fact the administration did not try to negotiate first with no indication the Chinese wouldn't have agreed.
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I dont think they would, but I agree like with Canada or Mexico we should have used the USMCA
 
dobieg said:
I just don't see how we can come to any conclusion until an agreement is reached.

It certaily won't be nothing for nothing.
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My comment was specific:

"Trump significantly capitulated without receiving concessions"

What may or may not occur at some later point was outside the purview of my comment.

To your larger point: We shall see.
 
Chomsky said:
Do you know why @ttwtt78640 has the handle he has? Perhaps he'll share it with you, if he so chooses. You might be surprised!

(or maybe he'll prefer not to share - we'll see)

These are some low-blows being handed-out. Good for you for holding your head high! (y)
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Hmm, now you got me thinking. I'm pretty sure the numbers are his area code.
 
anatta said:
Fanfare for the Common Man (Aaron Copland) . Emerson Lake and Palmer do a great rendition
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ELP holds a special place in my heart. "From the Beginning" was one of the first songs I learned on guitar, as a kid. I felt so sophisticated pulling that out, while everyone else was doing ABB, CSNY, and Led Zep!
 
Chomsky said:
I appreciate this, thanks.

If so, then I wonder if the young man might have found Chinese girlfriend - and needed an excuse to leave mom? :p
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Chinese parents are extremely proud of their children. Especially their sons. I don't hold anything against them for perhaps embelishing a little over a child they're glowing over.


My wife has hired people all around the world and I sort of pick up these things when she tells me about her day as hard as I try not to listen. Once in a great while you hear a real gem like the dude who didn't realize his camera was on during a Webex meeting with the majority being women and he came on camera with his pants all the way down at his desk. Now if there were more stories like that I'd listen more.
 
maxparrish said:
Or they don't honor them perhaps because Chinese culture, like Russian culture, never has developed a sense of honor in meeting one's obligations. I can't recall who but a major businessman told of his experience in China in making a deal, meeting for a photo op with the second party to the agreement in a public space for dignitaries to were waiting to attend the sign.

He said he sat down at the table but insisted on reading the "final" document before the ceremonial signing. His Chinese counterpart and changed the terms to significantly pay more than what was agreed upon. His Chinese counterpart said "This is okay, right? We need to sign momentarily". The US businessman said "No, this is not what we agreed on. I am leaving." His Chinese counterpart quickly crossed out the new fees, so that the American would sign".

This was, according to the businessman typical in dealing with Chinese business. A friend of mine who manages trucking says the Japanese are shamed if they overlooked a bill and quickly resolve it. The Chinese, on the other hand, will lie, obstruct, and make excuses to not pay their bills. He hates dealing with China's Chinese
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Decades ago, when China was ascending in the business world and American businessmen were just starting to deal with Chinese businessmen & entities, I had an ECON instructor at my university tell me how difficult it was. Literally layer after layer of delay & obstacles, and waiting around enduring false promises.

Up until then, the Russians were known as the most difficult to negotiate with. But this guy went out of his way to claim Mainland Chinese were worse!
 
dcsports said:
Long term - yes, that's a good deal.

The problem with trading with China is that they don't operate on a level playing field with the rest of the world. Why can they manufacture things so cheaply? At a price low enough that it's worth shipping their stuff around the globe? Because they don't care about their people - they pay them slave wages and have no worker's rights. Because they don't care about the environment - pumping out 1/3 of the world's emissions. Because they don't care about intellectual property rights. And we're paying them to continue that cycle.

So yes, it absolutely makes sense to tax the crap out of their goods to both provide an economic incentive to shift trade elsewhere AND push them to move toward acting like a civilized country.
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I'll respect your opinion, here.

But I can't say I necessarily agree in point or in detail.
 
Cope said:
I really wish that we would have started the balancing process ages ago (to keep some of the manufacturing here in the US) but we have no one to blame but ourselves for wanting things as cheap as possible.
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Every single nation that has a rising standard of living goes through the process of switching to higher value manufacturing, it is unavoidable unless you do something to repress wage gains....which is suicidal for a state.
 
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