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U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war

Except that is not how it works, nor has that been found true in practice.
The importer is not charged anything, the person who receives the goods is charged a 30 percent tariff tax.
Studies from the first Trump tariff war found that 93 percent of the tariff loss is by the person receiving (at least for the US side) buying the good, and only 7 percent is borne by the seller.

Moreover like any excise type tax there is not only a loss for the consumer but also a loss in having to buy substitution products which they perceive as inferior but for the new cost imposed on the products from China they wish to buy.

And it has been shown that when tariffs are raised, the substitution products also go up in price due to reduced competition and scarcity.

The bolded is how the current tariffs work on the Alibaba Express website.

The item prices are the same as pre-tariffs, including when you place the item in your cart.

But when you enter your address while checking-out, they then add a "fee" reflecting the 145% tariff. That's what they itemize it as, "fee". And it's substantially larger than the cost of the item.
 
This is what bothers me:

yeah, at least we are being thrown a bone for now.

and my Hopeum is about a Better Life for both countries.........much better.

and we should expect that, instead of a decreasing quality of Life.

.
 
I'll respect your opinion, here.

But I can't say I necessarily agree in point or in detail.
Fair enough.

To clarify, to you disagree that China doesn't care about those things? That we should care about it, and shift to countries that do? Or just that tariffs isn't the way to push China toward joining the world community?
 
Hmm, now you got me thinking. I'm pretty sure the numbers are his area code.

He recounted the genesis of his nick publicly, or I wouldn't reference it.

I'll leave it up to him, if he so chooses.

But he used wit, humour, and he's proud. Three things I respect.
 
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So now we are back to Biden levels? I thought Republicans were opposed. Or are we still being charged for Trump's tariff increases albeit smaller?
We’d need to look at how much income the feds would need to make way for more tax cuts for the top tier.

I suspect that the original rates prior to the temper tantrum were for just that.
 
These tariffs are ****ing us more than anything China does.
How so? Did you look beyond the tinker toys, sneakers, etc? There’s more to it than what’s in shipping containers.
 
Damn Chomsky if you aren't a person that would be fun to meet up with once a week at a local coffee shop to bs world issues with. The way you think intrigues me and the way you come off is disarming and good natured. Of course you're absolutely wrong over everything I disagree with you about.
 
I still don't see how this is a good thing, unless done strategically.

Taxing the American people. How is this good?
Somebody has to pay for the protection of the billionaire class. For the military to secure their foreign assets/opportunities. Etc.

They’re not gonna do it.

So it makes sense to come up with new ways to suck more irreplaceable hours of our lives for that purpose.

In capitalism, we are profit centers. “Food” sources. Prey.

It’s not going to get better.
 
Long term - yes, that's a good deal.

The problem with trading with China is that they don't operate on a level playing field with the rest of the world. Why can they manufacture things so cheaply? At a price low enough that it's worth shipping their stuff around the globe? Because they don't care about their people - they pay them slave wages and have no worker's rights. Because they don't care about the environment - pumping out 1/3 of the world's emissions. Because they don't care about intellectual property rights. And we're paying them to continue that cycle.

So yes, it absolutely makes sense to tax the crap out of their goods to both provide an economic incentive to shift trade elsewhere AND push them to move toward acting like a civilized country.

"America First" means we are sacrificing our own wellbeing by regressively taxing ourselves on behalf of low paid Chinese workers?

As someone with at least some sympathy for America first ideology, one should not care if the Chinese government wants to waste their money covering the cost of their production, giving us even less expensive and higher quality goods. Nor do I care that Chinese labor is cheaper than US labor, even if Chinese wages have dramatically gone up in the last 20 years and will one day equal our own.

And how is it an "America Firster" demands advancing labor rights in China - why it sounds like you are closet neo-conservative or liberal worried more about them, than us. No?

So no, it absolutely makes no sense to put a tariff gun to our own head and threaten suicide. Nor does it make any sense to demand reshoring when it will permanently make American consumers poorer for the sake of a special interest. The US has to face the reality that being dominant is irrelevant to our economic wellbeing, I rather be prosperous in a prosperous world than being a little less poor among the impoverished.

There is no prestige in returning the US standard of living, and the standard living standards of the world, to 1955.
 
Just look at the reaction to China’s tariffs here on DP. They aren’t even impacting prices yet and members, at least on the left, are demanding that an American President acquiesce to Xi Jinping.

I suspect the people who think the sudden imposition of extremely high tariffs on every country on earth at the same time somehow did not result in a severe, negative impact on the economy are most likely pro-Trump retirees who’ve been shielded from the worst news in their Fox News cocoon, and are responsible for nothing in their daily lives.
 
Chinese parents are extremely proud of their children. Especially their sons. I don't hold anything against them for perhaps embelishing a little over a child they're glowing over.


My wife has hired people all around the world and I sort of pick up these things when she tells me about her day as hard as I try not to listen.
Once in a great while you hear a real gem like the dude who didn't realize his camera was on during a Webex meeting with the majority being women and he came on camera with his pants all the way down at his desk.
Now if there were more stories like that I'd listen more.

The bolded is why I have a "no public Facetime" rule in my house.

No one in my family can use a video app, unless in the privacy of their own room behind a closed door. I'll make exception for a joint family project if we're all in on it together, such as a holiday greeting.

I'm also real tight with speaker phones too, but I don't require they take place in a private room. I do insist anyone on a speaker must inform me or anyone entering the room.

What I do detest is when I'm put on speaker at the other end of the call, without being made aware!

I was once on a call with a family member discussing my personal business, only to find he had me on speaker with his freaking girl friend listening in! She overheard everything I said, unbeknownst to me. I was beyond furious.
 
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The bolded is how the current tariffs work on the Alibaba Express website.

The item prices are the same as pre-tariffs, including when you place the item in your cart.

But when you enter your address while checking-out, they then add a "fee" reflecting the 145% tariff. That's what they itemize it as, "fee". And it's substantially larger than the cost of the item.

Ya, Trump has done his best to intimidate sellers into not telling the truth, such as Amazon. Trump and his supporters can't handle the Truth, simple as that.
 
"America First" means we are sacrificing our own wellbeing by regressively taxing ourselves on behalf of low paid Chinese workers?

As someone with at least some sympathy for America first ideology, one should not care if the Chinese government wants to waste their money covering the cost of their production, giving us even less expensive and higher quality goods. Nor do I care that Chinese labor is cheaper than US labor, even if Chinese wages have dramatically gone up in the last 20 years and will one day equal our own.

[deflection removed]

So no, it absolutely makes no sense to put a tariff gun to our own head and threaten suicide. Nor does it make any sense to demand reshoring when it will permanently make American consumers poorer for the sake of a special interest. The US has to face the reality that being dominant is irrelevant to our economic wellbeing, I rather be prosperous in a prosperous world than being a little less poor among the impoverished.

There is no prestige in returning the US standard of living, and the standard living standards of the world, to 1955.
Sure. Again, those on the left don't care about people, the environment, or intellectual property. It's all about tribalism. Lot's of rhetoric and hyperbole in that post.

I would prefer we impose a tariff plan as part of as part of a broader effort with other countries, but it's a first step. Economic incentives are often very effective at changing behaviors, an if we can decrease our dependence on China, we'll be better off for it.
 
And who wants a low paying manufacturing job in the first place.

Very few Americans. Anyone remember when southern textile manufacturers were an industry? Rest assured, they weren't the idealized 1960 Detroit Autoworker. And I was a tire builder at Firestone in the early 70s, and it was horrible work. Continual strikes, shifts from 11pm to 7am, six days a week. Partially crushed a thumb, dirty, dangerous, and on piece rate. And this with six or seven percent unemployment through the decade.

Nope, 4 percent unemployment in our recent booming economy didn't need fixed. The new generation wants trade and technical jobs, not scrubbing out hot carbon banbury's, covering them in black and impossible to scrub out soot stains.

Four million baby boomers will be retiring from the manufacturing sector and surveys show our young, including those who don't go to college, want them. White collar, technical, and blue-collar trades are on their radar, not canning sardines on an assembly line.

And, of course, that also means more need for migrants from the undeveloped world, more illegal immigration, and more screams from the Trump lobby that it doesn't stop.

Duh, wonder why?
 
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Fair enough.

To clarify, to you disagree that China doesn't care about those things? That we should care about it, and shift to countries that do? Or just that tariffs isn't the way to push China toward joining the world community?

I don't know enough about your claimed poor trade practices to know if they'll force a change of opinion in myself concerning maintaining trade and not using tariffs.

Tariffs are my biggest problem. Especially their application prior to any negotiating attempt.
 
Damn Chomsky if you aren't a person that would be fun to meet up with once a week at a local coffee shop to bs world issues with. The way you think intrigues me and the way you come off is disarming and good natured. Of course you're absolutely wrong over everything I disagree with you about.

Haha! Thanks. And Ditto for yourself!

I love people, dobieg. What else can I say? And I've always loved learning, and loved "ideas". Since my earliest days I've always seen the world as my playground, a place to explore, learn about, and enjoy.

I also sincerely believe everyone in this world can teach us at least one thing, one truth, even if that thing is what not to do. So with that, I'm always willing to listen and give respect. You don't learn anything from anyone, if you don't give them the respect required from them to share with you. It's that simple.

The saddest thing about this internet forum is there's quite a few here that would probably be a blast to know in real life. But I've previously seen crazy stuff evolve out of internet interactions, so I have a strict policy of privacy and no contact.

Why? Why such privacy? It's kinda' like keeping a secret. Once you tell someone, it's no longer a secret. Well, once you out yourself to someone, you can't control who they may share with even if inadvertently.

So yeah, that's such a bittersweet part of internet forums.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind words.
 
We have to put a stop to this!
Trump is already doing his best to stop the things like Lilly's planned expansion which was already in motion before Trump took office.

How much more help can you stand?

President Trump Just Announced Terrible News for Eli Lilly Investors​
 
I don't know enough about your claimed poor trade practices to know if they'll force a change of opinion in myself concerning maintaining trade and not using tariffs.

Tariffs are my biggest problem. Especially their application prior to any negotiating attempt.
? Wasn't talking about trade practices, but business and economic practices China uses able to undercut other countries. We're supporting that bad behavior by trading so heavily with them, and have created a great deal of dependency in the process. Something has to turn that around.
 
Haha! Thanks. And Ditto for yourself!

I love people, dobieg. What else can I say? And I've always loved learning, and loved "ideas". Since my earliest days I've always seen the world as my playground, a place to explore, learn about, and enjoy.

I also sincerely believe everyone in this world can teach us at least one thing, one truth, even if that thing is what not to do. So with that, I'm always willing to listen and give respect. You don't learn anything from anyone, if you don't give them the respect required from them to share with you. It's that simple.

The saddest thing about this internet forum is there's quite a few here that would probably be a blast to know in real life. But I've previously seen crazy stuff evolve out of internet interactions, so I have a strict policy of privacy and no contact.

Why? Why such privacy? It's kinda' like keeping a secret. Once you tell someone, it's no longer a secret. Well, once you out yourself to someone, you can't control who they may share with even if inadvertently.

So yeah, that's such a bittersweet part of internet forums.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind words.


lol

For me it's the fear of what the reality will be in any type of real world meet up. I'd imagine it would be a lot of nervous laughter and even more side eye glances of, 'what the heck did I get myself into'.


Anyways, I think it's more fun imagining what people are like in real life.
 
Ya, Trump has done his best to intimidate sellers into not telling the truth, such as Amazon. Trump and his supporters can't handle the Truth, simple as that.

Think of it:

We're turning to the CCP for transparency in information and free trade practices, in relation to our own country - The United States.

This photograph below, of a post-war European immigrant family looking from Ellis Island towards the Statue of Liberty, easily depicts what my grandparents on both sides, and one of my parents on one side, experienced. That statue was the first thing they saw as they were entering the harbor, welcoming them and giving them refuge.

They look longingly at the Statue for many reasons, but one is for the freedom it represents. Freedom which Hitler, Stalin, & Benito, took away from them. They came to know how precarious and fragile freedom & democracy were, and how precious they were

As much as I miss these family members that came before me, I'm glad they are not around to see this - what's occurring today. After all they endured back in the old country, you never saw anyone more patriotic and desiring and respectful of freedom, than my wartime immigrant grandparents. I'm dead serious about that.

Anyway . . .

2019_31_ellis_island_anoosh-scaled.jpg

*image courtesy newstateman.com
 
? Wasn't talking about trade practices, but business and economic practices China uses able to undercut other countries. We're supporting that bad behavior by trading so heavily with them, and have created a great deal of dependency in the process. Something has to turn that around.

If that's the case, why weren't these thing negotiated one-on-one with China, firstly?

And why then was every country in the world, plus five or six non-countries, taxed as well?

Whatever problems you believe you may perceive, do not justify the massive chaotic destructive shyte-show taking place.
 
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