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U.S. Ambassador To Netherlands Accused of 'Interference' With Dutch Elections

Godric1970

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America cries foul over so called Russian interference their only evidence is from the highly discredited US security services, the reality is it's pure bare faced cheek from America who still cannot stop interfering in other countries elections

https://www.newsweek.com/ambassador-dutch-far-right-fundraiser-pete-hoekstra-1533482



Pete Hoekstra, the U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands, has been accused of taking part in a fundraising event at The Hague for the far-right Forum voor Democratie (Forum for Democracy) earlier this month.

The event at the American embassy at John Adams Park in Wassenaar on September 10 was reported by the Dutch weekly magazine De Groene Amsterdammer as featuring a guest list of around 30 to 40 "party leaders supplemented by wealthy entrepreneurs" and hosted by Hoekstra.

Guests at the night for Thierry Baudet's anti-immigration party FvD reportedly received an email stating they can join the embassy "at the invitation of Forum for Democracy and Pete Hoekstra" and any further questions can be sent to Joyce Vastenhouw, the political party's head of fundraising.
 
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PeteEU

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The US has been meddling in elections everywhere since WW2.. just not usually as openly as this. Very disgusting. At least it was not Geert Wilders he is supporting..
 

Godric1970

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The US has been meddling in elections everywhere since WW2.. just not usually as openly as this. Very disgusting. At least it was not Geert Wilders he is supporting..
it's what's going on behind closed doors that worries me .... you only have to look at Ukraine to see how far America and the CIA was prepared to go to topple the democratically elected president Viktor Yanukovych by using neo nazis
 

PeteEU

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it's what's going on behind closed doors that worries me .... you only have to look at Ukraine to see how far America and the CIA was prepared to go to topple the democratically elected president Viktor Yanukovych by using neo nazis

I dont disagree, but that has been US policy for decades. Pinochet in Chile comes to mind, how they ruined Guatemala and El Salvador. The sad part, is that in many cases these interventions have come back and bit them in the ass big time. Look at again at Guatemala and El Salvador. Or how they actively stuffed ballots in Greece and Italy to avoid the left winning. It is not new, but usually it was done in countries with weak democracies and not one with a strong institutionalised democracy like Holland.
 

bluesmoke

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Trump's embrace of anti-democracy Euro leadership makes it clear the US favors RW candidates in Euro elections, and authoritarianism/dictatorship everywhere for that matter, LW or RW, such as in Saudi Arabia. The diff btx the Netherlands and Germany is that the Dutch complained, the Germans didn't.
 

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Far right in the Netherlands and far right in America are two different things.

Allende was a communist, who would've killed thousands.

Pinoche, who America backed, was anti-communist and he killed thousands.


The Cold War has been over for over 30 years now.
 

Godric1970

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Trump's embrace of anti-democracy Euro leadership makes it clear the US favors RW candidates in Euro elections, and authoritarianism/dictatorship everywhere for that matter, LW or RW, such as in Saudi Arabia. The diff btx the Netherlands and Germany is that the Dutch complained, the Germans didn't.
Ukraine and Libya were both under Obama's watch and the anti Venezuela stance also started under his watch Trump only carried it on to a further level
 

PeteEU

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Far right in the Netherlands and far right in America are two different things.

Not really. They are both Nazi leaning fascists these days. Although Thierry Baudet seems more Libertarian, than typical far right racist neo nazi.. but he aint far from it.

Allende was a communist, who would've killed thousands.

Oh, based on what?

Pinoche, who America backed, was anti-communist and he killed thousands.

Yes helps when you have dozens of real Nazies running your torture camps and secret police with CIA help.

The Cold War has been over for over 30 years now.

But it is back.. thanks to America.
 

swing_voter

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Not really. They are both Nazi leaning fascists these days. Although Thierry Baudet seems more Libertarian, than typical far right racist neo nazi.. but he aint far from it.



Oh, based on what?



Yes helps when you have dozens of real Nazies running your torture camps and secret police with CIA help.



But it is back.. thanks to America.


We won the Cold War. They're all gone and we're still here.

The only Cold War that's coming is the struggle between China and America, and it's a whole new Cold War.

Your hatred of America is irrational.
 

PeteEU

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Ukraine and Libya were both under Obama's watch and the anti Venezuela stance also started under his watch Trump only carried it on to a further level

Anti-Venezuela started under Bush Jr, when Chavez came to power in 1999. One could maybe argue it started under Clinton, but it certainly became "hot" under Bush Jr. Reasoning being, it was American oil interests that were hurt by Chavez and of course the US backed elite in Venezuela.

As for Ukraine. US involvement there started before Obama, but came to a head under him. It has been US policy since the break up of the USSR, to support as much as possible the former USSR states, so to weaken Russian influence. When Russia pushed back, Ukraine happened.

Libya, well.. Gadaffi was a friend and ally until he was not. What ultimately took Gadaffi out was however started under Bush Jr with his idiotic invasion of Iraq and destabilizing of North Africa and the Middle East. Dont get me wrong, I am all for getting rid of dictators like Gadaffi, or Mubarak or Assad, as long as a peaceful, democratic and most importantly stable government can take over. When that does not happen, then I would rather have the devil I know, than the someone who could be a fanatical religious nut job or worse.
 

PeteEU

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We won the Cold War. They're all gone and we're still here.

They are not gone.. they just became capitalists and one could argue, now control the US thanks to Trump.

The only Cold War that's coming is the struggle between China and America, and it's a whole new Cold War.

Dont disagree.. one that the US started for some reason, and one that it stands to lose big time at the current rate. Just look at how pathetically the TikTok deal is and how badly the US caved.

Your hatred of America is irrational.

Being factual aint "hating America". Listen I understand your love for your country and I do admire many parts of America, but being in denial of the crap that ones country has done and is doing, is kinda pathetic. I love my country, and despite my political leanings, I find for the most part that my Social Democrat Prime Minister has done a good job on Covid. Does not mean I agree with everything she has done and there are some boneheaded things that I will gladly be critical off, just as there are parts of Danish history that I am not proud of one bit and do not try to hid that fact. Also I am ashamed of how racist my country is becoming with its far right parties and supporters.
 

Godric1970

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in the case of Gadaffi it was all about his plan for the gold backed African Dinar it posed a threat to the PetroDollar ... America could not stand for that ... they got there way way with limited scope to interfere in Libya then chose to over step their UN mandate ending the Gadaffi regime and the threat of the gold backed African Dinar
 

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They are not gone.. they just became capitalists and one could argue, now control the US thanks to Trump.



Dont disagree.. one that the US started for some reason, and one that it stands to lose big time at the current rate. Just look at how pathetically the TikTok deal is and how badly the US caved.



Being factual aint "hating America". Listen I understand your love for your country and I do admire many parts of America, but being in denial of the crap that ones country has done and is doing, is kinda pathetic. I love my country, and despite my political leanings, I find for the most part that my Social Democrat Prime Minister has done a good job on Covid. Does not mean I agree with everything she has done and there are some boneheaded things that I will gladly be critical off, just as there are parts of Danish history that I am not proud of one bit and do not try to hid that fact. Also I am ashamed of how racist my country is becoming with its far right parties and supporters.


The Soviets are gone. They are no more.

Communism is a failed ideology.
 

PeteEU

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The Soviets are gone. They are no more.

Communism is a failed ideology.

LOL and so what? The same people are now running Russia. China is communist only in name these days... hell it is more capitalistic than the US! Exploiting people and the enviorment to the max and making tons of money.. the truly capitalistic utopia. China is what American right wingers want to be!
 

Montgomery

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Godric1970, Great signature you have posted there! Reminds me of Mark Twain's war prayer.
The difference between the Cold war and now is that Russia and China have interests to protect too and so the US has to go through M.A.D. in order to make any gains.
 

Montgomery

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The Soviets are gone. They are no more.

Communism is a failed ideology.

No, communism isn't a failed ideology. Communist China has raised hundreds of millions of its people up out of poverty and shows real signs of eclipsing the US by peaceful means.
Communism is working very well in coutries that practice Capitalism at the same time.
And look at what's happening to America's democracy under the Trump regime!

Having said that, and before being accused of being a communist, I have to say that my country, Canada, is the world's leading democracy on 'quality of life' for our people. As the US has slipped down to 15th.
 

PoS

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America cries foul over so called Russian interference their only evidence is from the highly discredited US security services, the reality is it's pure bare faced cheek from America who still cannot stop interfering in other countries elections

https://www.newsweek.com/ambassador-dutch-far-right-fundraiser-pete-hoekstra-1533482

The only ones in the US who keep whining about Russia are the democrats, and they recently bribed 30K ex-convicts to vote for them in Florida, so go figure.
 

Montgomery

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Anti-Venezuela started under Bush Jr, when Chavez came to power in 1999. One could maybe argue it started under Clinton, but it certainly became "hot" under Bush Jr. Reasoning being, it was American oil interests that were hurt by Chavez and of course the US backed elite in Venezuela.

As for Ukraine. US involvement there started before Obama, but came to a head under him. It has been US policy since the break up of the USSR, to support as much as possible the former USSR states, so to weaken Russian influence. When Russia pushed back, Ukraine happened.

Libya, well.. Gadaffi was a friend and ally until he was not. What ultimately took Gadaffi out was however started under Bush Jr with his idiotic invasion of Iraq and destabilizing of North Africa and the Middle East. Dont get me wrong, I am all for getting rid of dictators like Gadaffi, or Mubarak or Assad, as long as a peaceful, democratic and most importantly stable government can take over. When that does not happen, then I would rather have the devil I know, than the someone who could be a fanatical religious nut job or worse.
Add to your observations on Ukraine: The US stepped too far with Ukraine when the decision was made to chase Russia out of the Crimea. Russia was forced into pushing for a referendum in Crimea which they knew would choose Russia. Russia's Naval interests were at stake. And now the US push has resulted in a loss for the US/Nato.
 

PeteEU

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Add to your observations on Ukraine: The US stepped too far with Ukraine when the decision was made to chase Russia out of the Crimea. Russia was forced into pushing for a referendum in Crimea which they knew would choose Russia. Russia's Naval interests were at stake. And now the US push has resulted in a loss for the US/Nato.

Yes, it is almost as if the Crimean War never happened and we did not know that this would be Russia´s reaction... :sneaky:
 

Tigerace117

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in the case of Gadaffi it was all about his plan for the gold backed African Dinar it posed a threat to the PetroDollar ... America could not stand for that ... they got there way way with limited scope to interfere in Libya then chose to over step their UN mandate ending the Gadaffi regime and the threat of the gold backed African Dinar

In the case of Gaddafi it was his decades long support for international terrorism(and direct launching of attacks).....something which Scots would know about. Or does Lockerbie not ring a bell?

Coupled with his always present brutality(he was a serial rapist on a mass rape) and his habit of brutally abusing his own people.....there was no reason to stand by and let him slaughter his own people, and we didn’t.

You might as well blame Switzerland since Gaddafi called for it to be carved up and “declared jihad” on it.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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LOL and so what? The same people are now running Russia. China is communist only in name these days... hell it is more capitalistic than the US! Exploiting people and the enviorment to the max and making tons of money.. the truly capitalistic utopia. China is what American right wingers want to be!

Except for the mass state infrastructure projects that China undertakes to make the country better (airports, highspeed rail, water diversion projects)

But yes, individual Chinese are strongly capitalist in general with idea of starting their own business.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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No, communism isn't a failed ideology. Communist China has raised hundreds of millions of its people up out of poverty and shows real signs of eclipsing the US by peaceful means.
Communism is working very well in coutries that practice Capitalism at the same time.
And look at what's happening to America's democracy under the Trump regime!

Having said that, and before being accused of being a communist, I have to say that my country, Canada, is the world's leading democracy on 'quality of life' for our people. As the US has slipped down to 15th.


China really is no longer communist. The various levels of government only own what many would consider strategic industries, or those they want to promote growth in. There are hundreds of thousands of private business's in China, ranging in size from 1 employee, to tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands.
The level of government ownership would be more like that of France during the 60's to 80's (before neoliberal economics became the rage)
For economic development China generally followed Japan, and South Korea (both of which were either a defacto one party state (Japan) or a dictatorship (South Korea) during the early stages of development.

All three identified industries it wanted the country to be in and supported the growth and development of it. It worked great for Japan until the 80s MITI was reduced in power. Still is working for Korea, and still working for China
 

Lord Tammerlain

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In the case of Gaddafi it was his decades long support for international terrorism(and direct launching of attacks).....something which Scots would know about. Or does Lockerbie not ring a bell?

Coupled with his always present brutality(he was a serial rapist on a mass rape) and his habit of brutally abusing his own people.....there was no reason to stand by and let him slaughter his own people, and we didn’t.

You might as well blame Switzerland since Gaddafi called for it to be carved up and “declared jihad” on it.


And Libya is such a wonderous place now that he is gone, a paradise on earth
 

PeteEU

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Except for the mass state infrastructure projects that China undertakes to make the country better (airports, highspeed rail, water diversion projects)

But yes, individual Chinese are strongly capitalist in general with idea of starting their own business.

Well yea, that's because they dont ***** foot around and get things done when needed (for the most part.. ghost cities dont count). This stimulates the economy big time. Had California or the East Coast been Chinese, then there would be high speed 300 km/h trains all over the place and the bridges would not be falling apart. It only really means that their government is far more efficient than the American, which is strange saying and at the same time terrifying.
 
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