U.N. sets sights on North Korea (Kim Jong Un)

[Sammy]

I had been under the assumption this was common knowledge since the methods used in North Korea were directly adopted from Stalin, who had killed an estimated 20 million Russians during his reign. It surprises me they are acting like this is new to the worlds ears.

So why hadn't this gotten out? How could this level of cruelty be hidden so well. It made sense to me once China had their reaction to the UN's charges against North Korea. Why would china refuse any assistance if they weren't guilty of something, and feared what we might find out? China has for a long time been operating under these same methods against their own people, and I can only imagine what they came up with together following the same path. I believe America has given some bad tendencies to other countries, like doing one thing and saying another.

This still doesn't explain how this knowledge escaped the publics sight for so long. We had a tiny tussle with Korea before Vietnam and then left it at that. We were aware of the methods being used and the government in place enforcing such acts of horror. Could we really have just taken their word they weren't doing anything bad to their people? The amount of victims, can only say this would have never gone un-noticed and in fact it hadn't. So why till now? U.N. looked into NK because of their nuclear possibilities, and then suddenly discovers the truth?

I remember during (not before) Desert Storm, finding all about the Middle East to which most Americans knew nothing of. But we were already fighting this "reign of terror" before we even knew what it was. So why have we been stalling? We only stand to gain for the better of the Koreans, and not financially. If China wasn't protecting Korea and Korea had massive oil fields, do you really think we would be "talking it over"?

Which leads me back to my question. Why now? Well I was looking at the world map. North Korea is in the middle of two MASSIVE import/export countries. Shipping things by sea is expensive, and why keep paying when it could be shipped by land. Especially now that Korea is getting all this attention, the money is ripe for the picking.

In the light of all of this I find it hard to complain as its the people im worried about, and the promise of money will make it happen. It just saddens me that justice is only served if it pays off, and how long they had to suffer for our profits. It's hard for me to think about the in between, but it always ends the same and time will go on.

(Above) Hussein was hanged for crimes against humanity at dawn on Saturday, a dramatic, violent end for a leader who ruled Iraq by fear for three decades

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

A lot of the reason why we've been hearing more and more about goings-on in North Korea is technology. It used to be that spurning the government's tight lid on technology meant getting channels on your television that were not government-approved. Now, it means getting pictures, video, and eyewitness reports out of North Korea in ways that were impossible 10 years ago.

There are a variety of lesser reasons why we're hearing more and more about what's going on in North Korea.

Shipping goods over land rather than by sea is not one of them. Considering the fact that even keeping one north-south manufacturing cooperative open has been all but impossible, and the fact that international aid doesn't get to the average North Korean because it gets stolen and re-purposed, you're not going to see a surge of goods being shipped through North Korea.

 

[ecofarm]

Category:United Nations Security Council resolutions concerning North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jetboogieman]

The North Korean system is so unbelievably brutal, so incredibly repressive and so ultimately complete it would make Stalin shiver with fear.

The entire North Korea hierarchy deserves to die the most horrific deaths we could come up with for either their direct involvement or their complicity in crimes against humanity, as one of the most heinous in human history.

I have studied North Korea for most of my adult life and it makes me so absolutely incredibly sad to know how many people are in these camps and the conditions they have to endure.

For those interested in the subject you can watch the following documentary.



Camp 14 Total Control Zone.

Details the life of Shin Dong-Huyk.

The only known North Korean Born into a concentration camp to ever escape.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The only known North Korean Born into a concentration camp to ever escape.

I read the book written about that man's life and his escape. That was some seriously ****ed-up ****.

 

[Sammy]

Shipping goods over land rather than by sea is not one of them. Considering the fact that even keeping one north-south manufacturing cooperative open has been all but impossible, and the fact that international aid doesn't get to the average North Korean because it gets stolen and re-purposed, you're not going to see a surge of goods being shipped through North Korea.

Its these issues that makes me think they are setting their sites on NK. To open the trade route from South Korea to China, as it is no good now.

 

[Sammy]

The North Korean system is so unbelievably brutal, so incredibly repressive and so ultimately complete it would make Stalin shiver with fear.

The entire North Korea hierarchy deserves to die the most horrific deaths we could come up with for either their direct involvement or their complicity in crimes against humanity, as one of the most heinous in human history.

I have studied North Korea for most of my adult life and it makes me so absolutely incredibly sad to know how many people are in these camps and the conditions they have to endure.

For those interested in the subject you can watch the following documentary.



Camp 14 Total Control Zone.

Details the life of Shin Dong-Huyk.

The only known North Korean Born into a concentration camp to ever escape.

Thank you for the link! I am still watching it, as I wanted to reply before getting involved.

I don't think "sad" can quite explain the feelings involved, perhaps no words can.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

I had been under the assumption this was common knowledge since the methods used in North Korea were directly adopted from Stalin, who had killed an estimated 20 million Russians during his reign. It surprises me they are acting like this is new to the worlds ears.

So why hadn't this gotten out? How could this level of cruelty be hidden so well. It made sense to me once China had their reaction to the UN's charges against North Korea. Why would china refuse any assistance if they weren't guilty of something, and feared what we might find out? China has for a long time been operating under these same methods against their own people, and I can only imagine what they came up with together following the same path. I believe America has given some bad tendencies to other countries, like doing one thing and saying another.

This still doesn't explain how this knowledge escaped the publics sight for so long. We had a tiny tussle with Korea before Vietnam and then left it at that. We were aware of the methods being used and the government in place enforcing such acts of horror. Could we really have just taken their word they weren't doing anything bad to their people? The amount of victims, can only say this would have never gone un-noticed and in fact it hadn't. So why till now? U.N. looked into NK because of their nuclear possibilities, and then suddenly discovers the truth?

I remember during (not before) Desert Storm, finding all about the Middle East to which most Americans knew nothing of. But we were already fighting this "reign of terror" before we even knew what it was. So why have we been stalling? We only stand to gain for the better of the Koreans, and not financially. If China wasn't protecting Korea and Korea had massive oil fields, do you really think we would be "talking it over"?

Which leads me back to my question. Why now? Well I was looking at the world map. North Korea is in the middle of two MASSIVE import/export countries. Shipping things by sea is expensive, and why keep paying when it could be shipped by land. Especially now that Korea is getting all this attention, the money is ripe for the picking.

In the light of all of this I find it hard to complain as its the people im worried about, and the promise of money will make it happen. It just saddens me that justice is only served if it pays off, and how long they had to suffer for our profits. It's hard for me to think about the in between, but it always ends the same and time will go on.

(Above) Hussein was hanged for crimes against humanity at dawn on Saturday, a dramatic, violent end for a leader who ruled Iraq by fear for three decades

So your point is?...

 

[ecofarm]

Its these issues that makes me think they are setting their sites on NK.

As my post above demonstrates, there have been many UNSC resolutions concerning North Korea over many years.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

As my post above demonstrates, there have been many UNSC resolutions concerning North Korea over many years.

Obviously he thinks that it's a new issue :roll:

 

[Grand Mal]

Obviously he thinks that it's a new issue :roll:

He also thinks the Korean War was a 'tiny tussle'.

 

[Northern Light]

The only reason why the NK government is not dust right now is China. NK is China's proxy for bad press, and the guard dog at the gate. A U.S.-allied foothold in North Korean would be a threat to Chinese borders.

People need to stop deluding themselves about the reasons why we go to war. We don't do anything for purely humanitarian causes. If that were true we would have dealt with the NK situation a long time ago. The plight of their people is the most extreme in the 21st century, but it's allowed to persist because there is something we value more than the suffering of others: money and economy.

Attack NK and you're basically attacking China.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

The only reason why the NK government is not dust right now is China. NK is China's proxy for bad press, and the guard dog at the gate. A U.S.-allied foothold in North Korean would be a threat to Chinese borders.

People need to stop deluding themselves about the reasons why we go to war. We don't do anything for purely humanitarian causes. If that were true we would have dealt with the NK situation a long time ago. The plight of their people is the most extreme in the 21st century, but it's allowed to persist because there is something we value more than the suffering of others: money and economy.

Attack NK and you're basically attacking China.

You're also forgetting the obliteration of Seoul. 20 million casualties and displacement isn't such an attractive cost for a war.
It also has to do nothing with money and economics. Attacking China is an enormous logistical and military nightmare. Figure out how to wage a successful war with a nuclear-armed country, then you may have that war.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

As my post above demonstrates, there have been many UNSC resolutions concerning North Korea over many years.

In fairness, I think there's a big difference between UN Security Council resolutions regarding North Korea's military activities and an increased public awareness of flagrant human rights abuses, which was the subject of the OP. A lot of details of how the North Korean government treats its people were virtually unknown to the public a decade ago because the government did a really good job of insulating its population from the rest of the world, but technology has made that much harder to maintain in more recent years.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

In fairness, I think there's a big difference between UN Security Council resolutions regarding North Korea's military activities and an increased public awareness of flagrant human rights abuses, which was the subject of the OP. A lot of details of how the North Korean government treats its people were virtually unknown to the public a decade ago because the government did a really good job of insulating its population from the rest of the world, but technology has made that much harder to maintain in more recent years.

IMO it doesn't really make much of a difference. The UN has been condemning, threatening, and putting up statements for decades to no effect. The Rwandan catastrophe, the Yugoslavia mess, the Cold War, the history of the UN is nothing but failure. It can draw resolutions and have debates for eternity, it will still not change a thing.

 

[ecofarm]

In fairness, I think there's a big difference between UN Security Council resolutions regarding North Korea's military activities and an increased public awareness of flagrant human rights abuses, which was the subject of the OP.

Fair point.

 

[ecofarm]

North Korea's human rights record has been widely condemned, including by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch and the United Nations. The General Assembly of the United Nations has since 2003 annually adopted a resolution condemning the country's human rights record. The latest resolution of December 19, 2011, passed by a vote of 123–16 with 51 abstentions, urged the government in Pyongyang to end its "systematic, widespread and grave violations of human rights", which included public executions and arbitrary detentions. North Korea rejected the resolution, saying it was politically motivated and based upon untrue fabrications.[8] In February 2014, a UN special commission published a detailed, 400-page account based on first-hand testimonies documenting "unspeakable atrocities" committed in the country.[9]

Human rights in North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[specklebang]

I remember NKs horror stories for many decades. What they do there is almost incomprehensible. High living royalty and a nation of slaves.

The are so dug in that even if China told them to **** off, there is no way of attacking them unless maybe China actively participated. A lot of people are going to die. Seoul will be flattened immediately. They have primitive nukes. They're buried under the mountains. So, there is not a chance that anybody can do anything about them no matter how much technology you bring to bear. Unless we decide to kill everyone and just start over but somehow, that doesn't sound like a good idea.

A completely hopeless modern horror show.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I read the book written about that man's life and his escape. That was some seriously ****ed-up ****.

The part about how he reports his mom and brother is sooooooooooooooo ****ed.

 

[ecofarm]

While in Kenya a couple years ago, I had a discussion with a few Chinese engineers that were working on a highway project (their handler was listening close by and, at one point, decided they could not drink any more). We discussed North Korea. I told them: "North Korea is falling too far behind the rest of the world and there is nothing the US can do about it. I wish China would do something to stop the suffering and stagnation, and help to bring the people of North Korea into the 21st century". They seemed surprised that I actually cared about the people of North Korea and they agreed that China should do something for North Koreans.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

The part about how he reports his mom and brother is sooooooooooooooo ****ed.

The strories from Yoduck could be straight out of horror films like August Underground. The guards rape the women then have the babies forcibly aborted. As one survivor said and this is one of the most memorable quotes, "Yoduck is where the father steals food from his own son". In a society and culture where family is THE most central part of life, that quote is undescribably chilling and horrifying.

 

[Jetboogieman]

The strories from Yoduck could be straight out of horror films like August Underground. The guards rape the women then have the babies forcibly aborted. As one survivor said and this is one of the most memorable quotes, "Yoduck is where the father steals food from his own son". In a society and culture where family is THE most central part of life, that quote is undescribably chilling and horrifying.

Any human beings that set up a system like that deserve to die.

Kim Jong Il was the worst of them so far and shouldn't have had such a peaceful end.

 

[shrubnose]

It will be a long time before any of the North Korean leaders are held responsible for the evil things that they have done to the people of North Korea.

Meanwhile, the suffering goes on there.

 

[SBu]

Any human beings that set up a system like that deserve to die.

Kim Jong Il was the worst of them so far and shouldn't have had such a peaceful end.

We haven't yet seen what Un is capable of. Clearly he has no interest in changing anything.

This is an incredibly dangerous time regarding North Korea. New untested leader, disparity between north and south Koreas at an all time high, China increasingly fed up with the North's antics, and a population no doubt on the verge of starvation and desperation. That is probably why we're seeing this in the news so much, to go back to the OP. The UN should be careful not to try to paint Un into a corner, the North doesn't react well to that sort of thing, and despite the travesty of what is happening in the North, a broader situation on the peninsula is a much more horrific thought. The North will collapse one day, as all tyrannical communist states eventually do, the art to this on our part is ensuring that this is a collapse that avoids war on the peninsula.

 

[Sammy]

It will be a long time before any of the North Korean leaders are held responsible for the evil things that they have done to the people of North Korea.

Meanwhile, the suffering goes on there.

*major sigh*