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U.K. Supreme Court Rules Trans Women Can’t Be Defined as Women

Mr Person said:
The next ruling conservatives hope for: Top Court rules that trans people are not people.

After all, what is conservatism if you don't have groups of extremely vulnerable people to abuse?
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I don't get you. First, technically, there are no trans people, there are only trans men and trans women. That's because trans refers to gender, not species or sex.

It is a terrible mistake to think that sex discrimination and gender discrimination are the same thing. They aren't. People (which includes men, women, trans men, and trans women, etc.) should all be protected from both kinds of discrimination. But substituting "gender" for "sex" is one of the stupider things people have done in societies in the last century.
 
bomberfox said:
A 46-year-old pregnant woman had visited his clinic at the Royal Melbourne Hospital in Australia to hear the results of an amniocentesis test to screen her baby's chromosomes for abnormalities. The baby was fine—but follow-up tests had revealed something astonishing about the mother. Her body was built of cells from two individuals, probably from twin embryos that had merged in her own mother's womb. And there was more. One set of cells carried two X chromosomes, the complement that typically makes a person female; the other had an X and a Y. Halfway through her fifth decade and pregnant with her third child, the woman learned for the first time that a large part of her body was chromosomally male. “That's kind of science-fiction material for someone who just came in for an amniocentesis,” says James.

The fact is biology, gametes, and chromosome configurations are complex. If we stubbornly stick to this grade school biology shtick, lots of people get left out.
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But this woman is female because she produces female gametes.

Gametes, primary sexual reproductive organs, and chromosomes are linked, but gametes are the ultimate determining factor, which is why this woman is female.
 
Aristaeus said:
But this woman is female because she produces female gametes.

Gametes, primary sexual reproductive organs, and chromosomes are linked, but gametes are the ultimate determining factor, which is why this woman is female.
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Biological sex and their attributes are just one part of what makes a person male or female.
 
choiceone said:
I don't get you. First, technically, there are no trans people, there are only trans men and trans women. That's because trans refers to gender, not species or sex.

It is a terrible mistake to think that sex discrimination and gender discrimination are the same thing. They aren't. People (which includes men, women, trans men, and trans women, etc.) should all be protected from both kinds of discrimination. But substituting "gender" for "sex" is one of the stupider things people have done in societies in the last century.
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Gender and sex are the same thing. And always have been. A woman is an adult female. A man is an adult male. It’s not possible for a man to become a woman, or a woman to become a man.
 
Gordy327 said:
That is false.
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No it isn’t. A woman is an adult female, and always has been. A man is an adult male and always has been. It’s completely impossible for a man to become a woman.
 
rahl said:
No it isn’t. A woman is an adult female, and always has been. A man is an adult male and always has been. It’s completely impossible for a man to become a woman.
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If gender and sex are the same thing then trans people could not exist because their sex and gender are different. Take your circular logic circus somewhere else to perform.
www.healthline.com

What’s the Difference Between Sex and Gender?

Society typically tells us that there are two sexes, male and female, aligned with two genders, man and woman. But that’s not true.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com
 
Lisa said:
If gender and sex are the same thing then trans people could not exist because their sex and gender are different.
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Right.
Lisa said:
Take your circular logic circus somewhere else to perform.
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It isn’t logic. It’s biology. A man is an adult male. It’s impossible for a man to transition into a female. I’m sorry this hurts your feelings. But reality doesn’t care.
 
rahl said:
No it isn’t. A woman is an adult female, and always has been. A man is an adult male and always has been. It’s completely impossible for a man to become a woman.
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You fail to understand the distinction between sex and gender.
 
Gordy327 said:
You fail to understand the distinction between sex and gender.
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There is no distinction. A man is an adult male. A woman is an adult female. Always has been. It’s impossible for a man to transition into a woman. The same way it’s impossible for a man to transition into a golden retriever.
 
rahl said:
Right.

It isn’t logic. It’s biology. A man is an adult male. It’s impossible for a man to transition into a female. I’m sorry this hurts your feelings. But reality doesn’t care.
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Human sexuality is far more complex then your extreme binary arguments. Repeating a binary argument when reality is more complex doesn't make the binary claim true. It only advertises a person's limited thinking ability. Your sort of thinking is typical for someone of a limited intellect who can only understand binary thinking such as in elementary school. There are people who can help people progress beyond this point if they are an adult and are still limited to binary thinking patterns. A Dr would be able to help locate these learning aids.
 
rahl said:
Gender and sex are the same thing. And always have been. A woman is an adult female. A man is an adult male. It’s not possible for a man to become a woman, or a woman to become a man.
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No, they aren't. It is possible to have cultural gender roles, and one example is that, in most human societies, women care for toddlers and men perform roles in group defense. But these roles do not depend on having a sexually female body or a sexually male body.

Hence, it is possible for men to care for toddlers and women to join the military, and for them to do a good job. But because these roles are considered in the culture to be female and male roles, respectively, they have to do with the two genders. Those are gender roles.

But when sexually female people gestate embryos in pregnancy and give birth, or biologically nurse their newborns, those are sex roles, not gender roles.

If you discrimination against a woman for being pregnant, that isn't gender discrimination - it's sex discrimination because you used sexual definition to discriminate against her. That can also be true if you discriminate against a trans man for being pregnant - that's sex discrimination against someone performing a sex role.

We can make sex much more complex by attending to the phenomenon of intersexual people, and all societies make gender much more complex by all their complex notions of gender appropriateness, some societies/ cultures recognizing three genders, etc.
 
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Lisa said:
Human sexuality is far more complex then your extreme binary arguments.
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This has nothing to do with sexuality. It has to do with biology. A man is an adult male. It’s impossible for a man to become a woman. I get that this objective fact hurts your feelings. But reality doesn’t care.
 
rahl said:
Yes they are. A man is an adult male. A woman is an adult female. Everyone knows that.
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That is correct. Now figure out what male means without simplistic, outdated definitions.
 
rahl said:
I know.

I know what male means. So do you. And we both also know that a man can not become a woman. It’s completely impossible to do so.
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0-for-5. :)
 
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