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Turkey want things we can't give

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joluoto

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Turkey 'wants things we can't give', says NATO hopeful Sweden

Sweden has agreed to do what Turkey first asked for, but of course Turkey just asks for more. What Ankara really want is for Sweden to extradite every Kurd from Turkish Kurdistan (whether Swedish citizen or not) directly to a trial held at Ankara airport broadcasted on every Turkish tv channel where Erdogan himself sits as judge and proclaim them all terrorists. Maybe a tad exaggerated but just a tad. Basically Turkey is asking for the impossible, and Ankara is well aware they are aksing for the impossible.

What Erdogan is after is keeping his veto for Sweden (and Finland) joining NATO alive and active during the Turkish election this summer, so he can campaign on being hard against the West (tend to be something his base enjoys, and he need to give them something else to think about than the collapsing economy). Once the election is over the music from Ankara might well change.
 
I wish we could kick Turkey out of NATO as it is a brutal 3rd world dictatorship that doesn't share our values, but because of its extreme geographical importance we won't. What might be a better idea is the US could start denying them arms deliveries, without which they couldn't survive as they're too incompetent and poor to develop their own high end technologies.

The good news is there's essentially zero chance Finland or Sweden will be invaded by Russia, as both of which have far better militaries than Ukraine. I also can't help but to think that an invasion of either country would be a tipping point that would get many more countries to declare war on Russia. After all, both are in the EU and Schengen and Finland is even in the Eurozone. There's absolutely no way the EU would just watch them get invaded.
 
joluoto said:
Turkey 'wants things we can't give', says NATO hopeful Sweden

Sweden has agreed to do what Turkey first asked for, but of course Turkey just asks for more. What Ankara really want is for Sweden to extradite every Kurd from Turkish Kurdistan (whether Swedish citizen or not) directly to a trial held at Ankara airport broadcasted on every Turkish tv channel where Erdogan himself sits as judge and proclaim them all terrorists. Maybe a tad exaggerated but just a tad. Basically Turkey is asking for the impossible, and Ankara is well aware they are aksing for the impossible.

What Erdogan is after is keeping his veto for Sweden (and Finland) joining NATO alive and active during the Turkish election this summer, so he can campaign on being hard against the West (tend to be something his base enjoys, and he need to give them something else to think about than the collapsing economy). Once the election is over the music from Ankara might well change.
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I dont see any problem, USA, UK and Germany will fix this problem one way or another, one for sure NATO ´d be reformed , by the way the Greeks started this mess ...
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I wish we could kick Turkey out of NATO as it is a brutal 3rd world dictatorship that doesn't share our values, but because of its extreme geographical importance we won't. What might be a better idea is the US could start denying them arms deliveries, without which they couldn't survive as they're too incompetent and poor to develop their own high end technologies.

The good news is there's essentially zero chance Finland or Sweden will be invaded by Russia, as both of which have far better militaries than Ukraine. I also can't help but to think that an invasion of either country would be a tipping point that would get many more countries to declare war on Russia. After all, both are in the EU and Schengen and Finland is even in the Eurozone. There's absolutely no way the EU would just watch them get invaded.
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There’s zero chance Russia is going to invade either country because they don’t have anything Russia wants. It’s like saying the US is going to invade Ecuador tomorrow.

And as far as brutal dictatorships go.....that’s never been a disqualifier, as Portugal and Greece could tell you.
 
Tigerace117 said:
There’s zero chance Russia is going to invade either country because they don’t have anything Russia wants. It’s like saying the US is going to invade Ecuador tomorrow.

And as far as brutal dictatorships go.....that’s never been a disqualifier, as Portugal and Greece could tell you.
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You said the same thing before they invaded Ukraine then when they did it you blamed the US. Your opinion is meaningless because you parrot Kremlin propaganda.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You said the same thing before they invaded Ukraine then when they did it you blamed the US. Your opinion is meaningless because you parrot Kremlin propaganda.
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More meaningless whining about “Kremlin propaganda” to avoid facing reality.

Typical.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
When you blame Russia for Russia's invasion of Ukraine the rest of us on this forum MIGHT start taking you seriously.
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Nobody cares what someone who constantly blubbers about imaginary “Kremlin propaganda” to avoid facing reality thinks or “takes seriously”.

Hate to break it to you ;)
 
Tigerace117 said:
Nobody cares what someone who constantly blubbers about imaginary “Kremlin propaganda” to avoid facing reality thinks or “takes seriously”.

Hate to break it to you ;)
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Let us know when you are ready to blame Russia for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, tovarish.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Let us know when you are ready to blame Russia for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, tovarish.
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Let us know when you are ready to face reality instead of engaging in silly McCarthyisms.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Let us know when you are ready to face reality instead of engaging in silly McCarthyisms.
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Pointing out you refuse to hold Russia in any way responsible for Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not Mccarthyism. Do you even know what that word means?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Pointing out you refuse to hold Russia in any way responsible for Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not Mccarthyism. Do you even know what that word means?
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Desperately wailing “but the Kremlin” to avoid facing reality is textbook McCarthyism.
 
joluoto said:
What Ankara really want is for Sweden to extradite every Kurd from Turkish Kurdistan (whether Swedish citizen or not) directly to a trial held at Ankara airport broadcasted on every Turkish tv channel where Erdogan himself sits as judge and proclaim them all terrorists.
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I'd love to see American spike Turkey's guns by taking all the Kurds from Scandinavia while this impasse continues. What could Erdogan blame things on then?
 
Turkey rages after video by Kurdish group in Sweden calls Erdogan 'dictator'

So there was a video produced by a group of Rojava Kurds (i.e. Syrian Kurds) in Sweden that denounced Erdogan as a dictator , and prophetised that he will be hanged on Taksim Square in Istanbul. Turkey is of course treating this as a diplomatic incident and demand the makers of this video to be found, arrested (and preferable extradited), which they know won't happen, because the video does not break any Swedish laws. Swedish foregin minister Tobias Billström had condemned the video, but that is about as much as the Swedish government can do. However Turkey already use this to claim Sweden has broken it's promises to them (they have not), and will use this to be able to rant about Sweden for months, to make sure "horrible terrorist Sweden" remains in the headlines come election day.
 
So Erdogan basically just said that he is just not going to allow Sweden into NATO ever because of free speech apparently.

Erdogan tells Sweden not to expect Nato bid support​

He might say something different after the election in May (heck, there's a small chance he'll lose), when he is not in Campaign Mode. But don't expect any good news from Ankara regarding Finnish and Swedish NATO acession anytime soon.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I wish we could kick Turkey out of NATO as it is a brutal 3rd world dictatorship that doesn't share our values, but because of its extreme geographical importance we won't. What might be a better idea is the US could start denying them arms deliveries, without which they couldn't survive as they're too incompetent and poor to develop their own high end technologies.

The good news is there's essentially zero chance Finland or Sweden will be invaded by Russia, as both of which have far better militaries than Ukraine. I also can't help but to think that an invasion of either country would be a tipping point that would get many more countries to declare war on Russia. After all, both are in the EU and Schengen and Finland is even in the Eurozone. There's absolutely no way the EU would just watch them get invaded.
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What happened to countries having the right to sovereignty ?

If it's ok for Ukraine to want to join NATO, something everyone here supports, why is it not okay for Turkey to to exercise its sovereign right to deny Sweden and Finland NATO membership?
 
joluoto said:

Haavisto: Widespread frustration in Nato over delay in Finland, Sweden accession​

Of course NATO is annoyed Hungary and Turkey take their sweet time, but there is nothing anyone can really do about it. The rules clearly state that every member have to ratify any new members of the alliance.
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Same to you, if Ukraine has the right to join NATO, as it's a sovereign state that should be able/free to make its own decisions based on its own interests, why do you not allow that for the Turkish state?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I wish we could kick Turkey out of NATO as it is a brutal 3rd world dictatorship that doesn't share our values, but because of its extreme geographical importance we won't. What might be a better idea is the US could start denying them arms deliveries, without which they couldn't survive as they're too incompetent and poor to develop their own high end technologies.

The good news is there's essentially zero chance Finland or Sweden will be invaded by Russia, as both of which have far better militaries than Ukraine. I also can't help but to think that an invasion of either country would be a tipping point that would get many more countries to declare war on Russia. After all, both are in the EU and Schengen and Finland is even in the Eurozone. There's absolutely no way the EU would just watch them get invaded.
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What are " our values"?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
These countries should teach future alliance creators to have an "ejection mechanism" built in.
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So you don't actually believe in sovereignty for states or at least sovereignty only if you agree with their decision making/ stances. I'm not surprised by this tbh.
 
oneworld2 said:
So you don't actually believe in sovereignty for states or at least sovereignty only if you agree with their decision making/ stances. I'm not surprised by this tbh.
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They can be as sovereign as they want, but an Alliance should have a way to exclude members that don't play ball.

And if we speak about sovereignity, this is Turkey trying to enforce their views on Sweden, basically entrenching on Swedish sovereignity.
 
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joluoto said:
They can be as sovereign as they want, but an Alliance should have a way to exclude members that don't play ball.
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Well, this alliance, is always selling itself off the back of its, so called, " values" one of which is, allegedly, the rights of nations to make sovereign decisions, you know, having autonomy etc, free from the dictates/coercion of others ?

So which is it?

Should alliances value national sovereignty of members, in this case a NATO virtue signal, or should it be a dictatorship by the majority and to hell with the notion of national sovereignty?
 
oneworld2 said:
Well, this alliance, is always selling itself off the back of its, so called, " values" one of which is, allegedly, the rights of nations to make sovereign decisions, you know, having autonomy etc, free from the dictates/coercion of others ?

So which is it?

Should alliances value national sovereignty of members, in this case a NATO virtue signal, or should it be a dictatorship by the majority and to hell with the notion of national sovereignty?
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Nothing here is entrenching on Turkey's sovereignity. They can do whatever they want. This is Tureky (a NATO member) trying to enforce their will on Sweden (a NATO applicant), basically the country whose sovereignity is violated here is Sweden.
 
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