Trump rejects shutdown deal Republicans negotiated with Republicans

[Conservative]

What has he given up in return for his wall?

Idiots also haven't figured out yet that Trump is not a dictator. He is not the sole decision maker in this country. He is obligated to work with the Congress. The Constitution, you know.

So protecting the border, lowering human and fiscal costs is a problem for you? Authorize spending the 5 billion dollars and if it fails hold him accountable for the results? You won't do that but would rather say he broke his promise regarding the wall. We will never know if Mexico will pay for the wall without a wall being built. Amazing how fiscal costs don't resonate with you, why aren't you angry over this issue?

https://fairus.org/issue/publicatio...n-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

 

[iguanaman]

Because they all don't have jobs and why wouldn't you prevent them from getting here instead of rounding them up and trying to deport them? You give me another source that lists costs for illegals which is something you have never done. Keep spouting the liberal talking points about employers being the problem totally ignoring the hole in the dike.

Costs to federal, state, and local coffers is staggering so why isn't that an issue for you?

What about the benefits from their labor? They would not be here if there was not a demand for that. No wall will stop them as long as that demand continues and it certainly will.

 

[Conservative]

What about the benefits from their labor? They would not be here if there was not a demand for that. No wall will stop them as long as that demand continues and it certainly will.

why don't you post the benefit to labor and show us there is a net gain? You buy what you are told and ignore the human costs which aren't being measured. Just like a liberal, return on investment is ignored

 

[iguanaman]

So protecting the border, lowering human and fiscal costs is a problem for you? Authorize spending the 5 billion dollars and if it fails hold him accountable for the results? You won't do that but would rather say he broke his promise regarding the wall. We will never know if Mexico will pay for the wall without a wall being built. Amazing how fiscal costs don't resonate with you, why aren't you angry over this issue?

https://fairus.org/issue/publicatio...n-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

LOL The "results" already have reduced illegal immigration to 40 year lows, something most Presidents would be bragging about. What results would you hold him to for a barrier that would take at minimum 10 years to build? Experts already agree that it unfeasible and most likely ineffective but you want to spend $5 Billion in the hope that you will prove them wrong?

https://www.businessinsider.com/border-crossings-arrests-trump-historic-low-data-charts-2018-4

 

[iguanaman]

why don't you post the benefit to labor and show us there is a net gain? You buy what you are told and ignore the human costs which aren't being measured. Just like a liberal, return on investment is ignored

This entire country was built on the backs of immigrants and you question the "return on investment". My God what stupidity.

 

[Conservative]

This entire country was built on the backs of immigrants and you question the "return on investment". My God what stupidity.

Yes it was, legal immigration not breaking u.s. laws you don't seem to grasp the difference. Is it fair for people from other countries to follow the legal guidelines to become a legal immigrant and allowing illegal immigrants access to our country?

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[Conservative]

LOL The "results" already have reduced illegal immigration to 40 year lows, something most Presidents would be bragging about. What results would you hold him to for a barrier that would take at minimum 10 years to build? Experts already agree that it unfeasible and most likely ineffective but you want to spend $5 Billion in the hope that you will prove them wrong?

https://www.businessinsider.com/border-crossings-arrests-trump-historic-low-data-charts-2018-4

So 11 million illegal immigrants is okay for you? Context matters a 40% reduction from record high isn't something to tap out when the cost of those 11 million is over 134 billion and ongoing?

There is absolutely nothing logical are common sense based in your argument

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[iguanaman]

The 2013 shutdown came about because Obama wasn't going to sign any bill that defunded Obamacare.

So the Republicans attempted to overturn a bill passed by votes in both Houses of Congress and signed by the President. Trump does not have the votes in Congress to get his pet project so he is holding Americans hostage instead. Not the same at all.

 

[apdst]

So the Republicans attempted to overturn a bill passed by votes in both Houses of Congress and signed by the President. Trump does not have the votes in Congress to get his pet project so he is holding Americans hostage instead.

Obama shut the government down to protect his pet project. You erroneously claimed it had never happened.

 

[iguanaman]

Don’t say the President isn’t interested in deals that you aren’t offering. And no it isn’t. There was a government shutdown for 16 days over the ACA and we didn’t see anyone losing their **** about how federal employees would pay their mortgages.

Because Republicans caved before those things happened. The public knew the Republicans had no right to overturn a bill passed by Congress and signed by the President and called them on it. Trump does not care that the public does not want this shutdown or his wall. He's making Americans suffer to save his neck because his looney base called him on his fantasy wall that he never intended to build and even Republicans in Congress did not want.

Donald Trump sought the presidency on a fantasy: with Mexico's money, he would build a "great wall" of concrete and steel across America's southern border.

Ever since he won, Trump has obscured his inability to make the fantasy real. Rhetorically, he has fogged the air on whether he seeks a wall or something else, whether he needs money from Congress or not, whether the wall is "desperately needed" or already largely built.

The federal government remains shut down because one chamber of Congress no longer will play along. The Paul Ryan-led Republican House shielded the president from political discomfort on his pledge; the Nancy Pelosi-led Democratic House will not.
Ryan knew the pledge was irredeemable. When I asked him about it before the 2016 election, he chuckled.

Trump knew it, too. Days after his inauguration, he told Mexico's president of his "political bind, because I have to have Mexico pay for the wall – I have to. I've been talking about it for a two-year period."

When his counterpart reiterated firm opposition, a leaked transcript of their phone call showed, Trump replied: "But you cannot say that to the press. The press is going to go with that, and I cannot live with that."

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/04/donald-trumps-great-wall-is-a-fantasy.html

 

[Hicup]

What has he given up in return for his wall?

Idiots also haven't figured out yet that Trump is not a dictator. He is not the sole decision maker in this country. He is obligated to work with the Congress. The Constitution, you know.

Oh you mean like Obama was always so willing to work with congress? Elections have consequences.. He ran on this as his main election campaign promise, and he won, now he's trying to accomplish it, and also line the dems up and paint their narrative going into the 2020 cycle.. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Tim-

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

It's going to be interesting to see how 'loyal' his base will be if he declares a 'National Emergency' and sends troops down the to take land at gun point.

I KNOW many will stick with him, he could declare himself King tomorrow and millions would stay with him. Falwell Jr. flat out said Trump could do ANYTHING and he would still support Trump.

But it will be a hell of a line in the sand, photos of troops taking land. Might be an eye opener for some of his cult.

 

[tres borrachos]

Oh you mean like Obama was always so willing to work with congress? Elections have consequences.. He ran on this as his main election campaign promise, and he won, now he's trying to accomplish it, and also line the dems up and paint their narrative going into the 2020 cycle.. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Tim-

What does Obama have to do with anything? I didn't vote for him. I voted for McCain and Romney.

Can you stay on topic?

 

[Hicup]

What does Obama have to do with anything? I didn't vote for him. I voted for McCain and Romney.

Can you stay on topic?

Well now, that kind of explains your derision toward Trump. McCain and Romney are the exact opposite of what Trump is. Meaning, they are weak kneed RINO's we have been clamoring for to get ousted. One died, one still around in Utah, but as completely clueless as ever.. And what does Obama have to do with anything? He did exactly what you're claiming Trump is doing, but in Obama's case he did it for 8 straight years!

Tim-

 

[Cardinal]

Why are you acting as though this is the first shutdown over funding in American history? We’re waiting for Pelosi and Schumer to make a counteroffer in exchange for the $5 billion.

That's the problem: it's become a normal negotiating tactic, only this time is a lot worse: the shutdown is being instigated by a President for a pet political cause that the majority of the public doesn't even want, and to give in to him would set the precedent that trump could take the entire country hostage every single time he wanted something, instantly relegating the House to an inferior branch of government. In fact, if Trump's hostage scheme were to succeed here, there's no reason to think that he couldn't demand that the House cease oversight action altogether once the next spending bill came up. And at that point he would be right, because he'd know that no matter how long the House drew out a shutdown, the Democrats would cave eventually. As a result, Democrats can't cave to his demand.

It's foolish to think that this is only about an idiotic wall. The stakes here are enormous.

 

[iguanaman]

Obama shut the government down to protect his pet project. You erroneously claimed it had never happened.

The Republicans shut down the Govt. in an illegal failed attempt to overturn the rule of law. Trump is doing the same if that is what you mean. Obama did not submit to extortion and neither will the Dems. The rule of law will prevail. That is something Republicans lately seem to forget. That s why you have a criminal as your leader and it will be the GOPs downfall.

 

[tres borrachos]

Well now, that kind of explains your derision toward Trump. McCain and Romney are the exact opposite of what Trump is. Meaning, they are weak kneed RINO's we have been clamoring for to get ousted. One died, one still around in Utah, but as completely clueless as ever.. And what does Obama have to do with anything? He did exactly what you're claiming Trump is doing, but in Obama's case he did it for 8 straight years!

Tim-

Obama has nothing to do with me. If you want to discuss Obama, please quote someone else. This thread isn't about him. I'm on topic. You aren't.

 

[slick]

No wall, no deal, period! Staying strong, unlike past republicans, including the RINO's currently sitting in Congress.

These idiots haven't figured out this yet, Trump is not to be bullied like past Republican Presidents!


Tim-

The wall has to come first then he'll talk about something comprehensive. Sadly he remembers, there was an instance where Reagan allowed
himself to be tricked by the Democrats who promised conditions once amnesty was granted. The Libs took their promises and
left town after getting what they wanted from the President. However, the foundation of all of the current immigration problems
in America started in 1965 with the passage of The Immigration and Nationality Act of which Sen. Kennedy and his ilk put
foreign born peoples interests ahead of American born citizens. Pandoras box was open.

This country would have been better served if those after Reagan tried to stop foreign intruders, I guess it was to
much heavy lifting for the likes of the Bush's, Clinton or BO.

 

[iguanaman]

Oh you mean like Obama was always so willing to work with congress? Elections have consequences.. He ran on this as his main election campaign promise, and he won, now he's trying to accomplish it, and also line the dems up and paint their narrative going into the 2020 cycle.. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Tim-

The American people weighed in last November on Trump's wall and overwhelmingly rejected it. So you are right "elections have consequences". As far as the wall being a main campaign promise, he had 2 years of Republican control and they did not want it either. We have 3 branches of Govt. not one. What Trumps is doing is trying to save his own neck at the expense of 800,000 Americans and it is not only wrong it is futile.

 

[Cardinal]

The wall has to come first then he'll talk about something comprehensive. Sadly he remembers, there was an instance where Reagan allowed
himself to be tricked by the Democrats who promised conditions once amnesty was granted. The Libs took their promises and
left town after getting what they wanted from the President. However, the foundation of all of the current immigration problems
in America started in 1965 with the passage of The Immigration and Nationality Act of which Sen. Kennedy and his ilk put
foreign born peoples interests ahead of American born citizens. Pandoras box was open.

This country would have been better served if those after Reagan tried to stop foreign intruders, I guess it was to
much heavy lifting for the likes of the Bush's, Clinton or BO.

If he's given the wall he'll shut down the government every time a spending bill is up and he'll always get everything he wants.

 

[Parrish]

Obama shut the government down to protect his pet project. You erroneously claimed it had never happened.

Nope that is just a lie. It was Sen. Cruz and the GOP led Senate shut it down.

 

[slick]

If he's given the wall he'll shut down the government every time a spending bill is up and he'll always get everything he wants.

That is a possibility! I guess it's what comes first the chicken or the egg!

 

[Cardinal]

That is a possibility! I guess it's what comes first the chicken or the egg!

It's not a possibility; it's a fact. And now you know why Democrats are 100% not going to give him his wall. The only way he's getting his wall is if he goes through the emergency act, and even then he'll be instantly tied up in court.

 

[Napoleon]

No, it doesn't.

You failed to take the Senate so, yes, it does.

 

[Napoleon]

That's the problem: it's become a normal negotiating tactic, only this time is a lot worse: the shutdown is being instigated by a President for a pet political cause that the majority of the public doesn't even want, and to give in to him would set the precedent that trump could take the entire country hostage every single time he wanted something, instantly relegating the House to an inferior branch of government. In fact, if Trump's hostage scheme were to succeed here, there's no reason to think that he couldn't demand that the House cease oversight action altogether once the next spending bill came up. And at that point he would be right, because he'd know that no matter how long the House drew out a shutdown, the Democrats would cave eventually. As a result, Democrats can't cave to his demand.

It's foolish to think that this is only about an idiotic wall. The stakes here are enormous.

Well, the difference between you and I is that I am more concerned about who is perpetuating a shutdown than with who instigated it and the answer to that is Democrats. And my god do people have short memories here. Trump isnt setting a precedent - he’s following in the footsteps of prior Administrations.