Trump Launches War On Iran

[SonOfDaedalus]

Israel just wants time to reload their interceptor missiles.

 

[devildavid]

It never happens because we unfailingly hang around and try to "fix" things.

If the mullahs fall, we should back up and let them settle their own shit. So far civilian casualties are very light, and none caused by us. Leave them be.

That isn’t why we hang around. We, which includes Israel and Great Britain and other Western nations never could leave the region alone for various economic and world politics reasons. And neither could the USSR. Nothing has changed that dramatically that “we” will totally withdraw from the area and let them do their own thing. They were already set up for failure and conflict by the artificial borders that were imposed on them. When left alone they tend to have meaningless and protracted wars that lead to meaningless deaths of their soldiers and little social and economic progress. Leaving them alone would also include letting them develop nuclear weapons. We will never allow that. We can’t quit them.

 

[CLAX1911]

At best
I think there's a good chance a couple of naive Persians are driving around in an unmarked van with 800 lbs of 60% enriched uranium

Yeah I have my doubts that they actually moved it. Not something you can just load into a truck and move. It's not the weight of the uranium so much as it is the shielding.

 

[CLAX1911]

Israel just wants time to reload their interceptor missiles.

So they can continue to defend themselves well that's a good enough reason.

 

[What if...?]

What do you think their nuclear enrichment facilities are for?

Self defense?

This is the world the nuclear powers created.

Get a nuke or be subject to their whims.

I’m not saying the ayatollahs wouldn’t use them or the threat of using them. But i can see that aspect of their development as well.

That pesky weighing both sides of an issue rather than parroting a manufactured narrative.

 

[What if...?]

Your sentence got cut off. But in any case no. The Ayatollahs overthrew Mosaddegh.



I am not incorrect. The boundaries of Judah are within the modern state of Israel (counting the West Bank of course). The boundaries of Samaria are largely within the state of Israel, except for where the Omrides conquered the Moabites.

That’s not what the maps I looked at show. Nor the write-ups. The maps weren’t all the same, and I’m not sure what that means. But they sure weren’t limited to mandate Palestine.

So ima need more than you just saying so. We could like, debate, provide sources.

 

[maxparrish]

https://nypost.com/2025/06/23/world...fordo-nuclear-facility-before-us-air-strikes/


Satellite images appeared to show scores of trucks lined up at Iran’s Fordow nuclear facility just days before the US carried out its large-scale airstrikes — as speculation swirled that Tehran may have been able to move its uranium stockpiles before the attacks.

The images, released by US defense contractor Maxar Technologies, captured more than a dozen cargo-style trucks lined up outside the Fordow nuclear enrichment site’s tunnel entrance on Thursday and Friday.

The vehicles, which came and went over a 24-hour stretch, appeared to move unidentified contents roughly half a mile away, the Free Press reported, citing US officials.
View attachment 67576352

As mentioned earlier, that is the price of procrastination and a lack of planning. Had Trump not been winging it day to day, he would and should have known much earlier if hitting those sites were in US interests. "Waiting to see what happens" is the calling card of incompetence and a lack of strategic vision.

If he had vision, and if his vision were the US must make sure Israel is successful, preplanning with Israel would have not only included US air suppression from the first day, but also Kill boxes as used in the Gulf War. Anything that moved within a kill box would be destroyed, especially around the nuke sites.

And, of course, those sites would have been targeted by B-2s on day one or day two, at latest.

So if those sixteen or more trucks took many round-trips over 24hrs, then a HUGE amount of material, and likely centrifuges, would have been moved.

 

[Along Came Jones]

Thank you. If I remember correctly, Khameni (I’m sure I’m spelling that wrong) is one of the few true hard liners left. Most of them have died at this point?

I don’t see “regime change” as something that going to necessarily happen - but the #2 behind him is more moderate.

And, the population of Iran itself - especially among their younger citizens - tended to be trending more moderate.

I just hope that the current actions by Israel (and now the US) haven’t changed that trajectory.

I've kept your comment and question in mind since you first posted it this morning. With ongoing events clouding the situation within Iran I have no adequate response. By the time a thread appears debating the chances for regime change I expect to have a defensible opinion. Meanwhile . . .

If you do not already know this, you may be interested in Iran's governing hierarchy. The best illustration I've come across is from the BBC's IRAN: Who holds the power? Click on each block in the graphic to read a brief but succinct description of the influence and power of the institution. If you already know this hierarchy, maybe others may find the link informative. It provides us with a common frame of reference as to which institutions will be threatened should there be a regime change movement.

I can assume by the number of elderly clerics heading the unelected institutions that they are still very much in charge. One U.S. based Iranian commentator said that the initial reaction from those who oppose the regime will for the next few months will be a spirit of nationalism in response to our attack. Then they will again take to the streets in institutional defiance.

Another said that regime change may occur, but it will not be democratic.

. . . the war will accelerate a process that was quietly underway long before Israeli jets took off on June 13 to bombard Iran.

In this transformation, Iran will turn from an ideological actor to an interest-focused authoritarian state. It will be defined not by Islam, but rather by Iranian civilization. It will stop obsessing about how Islamic its citizens are and instead try to provide them with basic services. It will seek economic development, not ways to export its revolution. It will try to trade with the West, not fight it. It will be led by oligarchs and generals, not clerics and ideologues. In short, it will resemble most of its neighbors in the Arab world. -- What Regime Change Means in Iran, Arash Azizi, Foreign Policy, (Paywall) 6/19/2025

Then there is the matter of Israel targeting Iran's internal security apparatus. Among them was the destruction of the headquarters for their domestic policing arm. Policing dissent in the country, it suppressed protests and maintained control of the population. The question becomes were these targets clandestine assistance to opponents of the regime collaborating with Israel?

What will the next few weeks reveal about what is really going on inside Iranian society?

 

[Bucky]

An overreaction. The war was over before liberals could write down all their talking points from the liberal news media.

Now, back to showing outrage from criminals being arrested.

 

[Desert Storm]

Israel has officially agreed to ceasefire

 

[Desert Storm]

 

[BirdinHand]

I've kept your comment and question in mind since you first posted it this morning. With ongoing events clouding the situation within Iran I have no adequate response. By the time a thread appears debating the chances for regime change I expect to have a defensible opinion. Meanwhile . . .

If you do not already know this, you may be interested in Iran's governing hierarchy. The best illustration I've come across is from the BBC's IRAN: Who holds the power? Click on each block in the graphic to read a brief but succinct description of the influence and power of the institution. If you already know this hierarchy, maybe others may find the link informative. It provides us with a common frame of reference as to which institutions will be threatened should there be a regime change movement.

I can assume by the number of elderly clerics heading the unelected institutions that they are still very much in charge. One U.S. based Iranian commentator said that the initial reaction from those who oppose the regime will for the next few months will be a spirit of nationalism in response to our attack. Then they will again take to the streets in institutional defiance.

Another said that regime change may occur, but it will not be democratic.

. . . the war will accelerate a process that was quietly underway long before Israeli jets took off on June 13 to bombard Iran.

In this transformation, Iran will turn from an ideological actor to an interest-focused authoritarian state. It will be defined not by Islam, but rather by Iranian civilization. It will stop obsessing about how Islamic its citizens are and instead try to provide them with basic services. It will seek economic development, not ways to export its revolution. It will try to trade with the West, not fight it. It will be led by oligarchs and generals, not clerics and ideologues. In short, it will resemble most of its neighbors in the Arab world. -- What Regime Change Means in Iran, Arash Azizi, Foreign Policy, (Paywall) 6/19/2025

Then there is the matter of Israel targeting Iran's internal security apparatus. Among them was the destruction of the headquarters for their domestic policing arm. Policing dissent in the country, it suppressed protests and maintained control of the population. The question becomes were these targets clandestine assistance to opponents of the regime collaborating with Israel?

What will the next few weeks reveal about what is really going on inside Iranian society?

Thank you - I will read the link.

 

[snakestretcher]

I checked to see if Israel had signed the Non Proliferation Treaty.



Good for Israel!



My facts are all in order.

I proved you wrong; your stubborn refusal to accept facts and the reality staring you in your face is your problem.

 

[HumblePi]

I checked to see if Israel had signed the Non Proliferation Treaty.



Good for Israel!



My facts are all in order.

Israel has never been willing to sign a non-proliferation of nuclear weapons agreement. Israel will never sign an NPT. Israel has nuclear weapons, and they’re not willing to allow anyone to oversee their own nuclear weapons
ambitions. Iran is aware that Israel has nuclear weapons and would use them.

 

[eohrnberger]

If we wanted to put the exclamation mark on, then yes.

No, its far more than just an 'exclamation mark', it was required to take out those nuclear weapons sites.

Its rather odd that here you are objecting to putting Iran's nuclear and ICBM programs further back with the US bombing, arguing for leaving them intact or nearly so.

I'm watching News Nation, and they are reporting we still don't know if we actually destroyed the facilities, nor do we know where the nuclear material is/was.

Yes, DBA (Bomb Damage Assessment) is going to take some time, as its going to have to come from human int or signal int.

So there's many in this thread making assumptions that the U.S. Military and IAEA cannot.

Consider this article:

(WBEZ) Satellites show damage to Iran's nuclear program, but experts say it's not destroyed

OK, fine. But its still more damaged than had the US NOT dropped their ordinance.

 

[eohrnberger]

We didnt need to, we chose to

Not, I think the US needed to. See post #3,665.

Also:
"Its rather odd that here you are objecting to putting Iran's nuclear and ICBM programs further back with the US bombing, arguing for leaving them intact or nearly so."

Why is that?

 

[The Brad Dad]

An overreaction. The war was over before liberals could write down all their talking points from the liberal news media.

ROFLMFAO

 

[The Brad Dad]

OK, fine. But its still more damaged than had the US NOT dropped their ordinance.

We don’t know this. Literally this regime has lied about everything, and the dotard in charge keeps jumping on social media to declare victory without even knowing what happened. What is it bout Trump that makes you folks so willing to humiliate yourselves daily over?

 

[Hamish Howl]

An overreaction. The war was over before liberals could write down all their talking points from the liberal news media.

Now, back to showing outrage from criminals being arrested.

This is why you don't get invited to parties. Or to anything else.

 

[snakestretcher]

Wow! I almost missed this because I am focusing mostly on replies directly to me. (This thread moves so damn fast.)

We nuked Japan because we were at the height of the most brutal war in human history. And at the time most people did not understand how devastating nukes are.



That is incorrect. Japan had millions of soldiers and ten thousand kamikazes waiting to fight to the death when we invaded. Invading Kyushu would have been an entire D-Day invasion all over again, and invading the Tokyo Plain would have been an entire third D-Day invasion.

Nonsense; we knew how devastating nukes were because we tested them before attacking Japan*. Moreover who told you Japan had millions of soldiers and 10,000 kamikazes? Japan had no fuel to fly them, the remaining aircraft were in poor repair and the ersatz fuel they used could barely get them off the ground, and the country was starving and in no position to defend herself against invasion. I suggest you read some history; not just America's skewed version of events.

*

 

[HumblePi]

No, its far more than just an 'exclamation mark', it was required to take out those nuclear weapons sites.

Its rather odd that here you are objecting to putting Iran's nuclear and ICBM programs further back with the US bombing, arguing for leaving them intact or nearly so.


Yes, DBA (Bomb Damage Assessment) is going to take some time, as its going to have to come from human int or signal int.


OK, fine. But its still more damaged than had the US NOT dropped their ordinance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html

But there was also evidence, according to two Israeli officials with knowledge of the intelligence, that Iran had moved equipment and uranium from the site in recent days. And there was growing evidence that the Iranians, attuned to Mr. Trump’s repeated threats to take military action, had removed 400 kilograms, or roughly 880 pounds, of uranium enriched to 60 percent purity. That is just below the 90 percent that is usually used in nuclear weapons.

Asked by text later in the day whether he meant that the fuel stockpile — which is stored in special casks small enough to fit in the trunks of about 10 cars — had been moved, he replied, “I do.” That appeared to be the mystery about the fuel’s fate that Mr. Vance was discussing.

Comments by Mr. Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in recent days suggest they believe that work has resumed, though no evidence to support the contention has been made public. If so, the strikes on Fordo, Natanz and Isfahan may only reinforce the view among Iranian leaders that they need a weapon for survival of the government

 

[Along Came Jones]

Nonsense; we knew how devastating nukes were because we tested them before attacking Japan*. Moreover who told you Japan had millions of soldiers and 10,000 kamikazes? Japan had no fuel to fly them, the remaining aircraft were in poor repair and the ersatz fuel they used could barely get them off the ground, and the country was starving and in no position to defend herself against invasion. I suggest you read some history; not just America's skewed version of events.

*

Re: the country was starving and in no position to defend herself against invasion.

Shoulda wrote, "the country was starving and in no position to successfully defend herself against invasion."

The Japanese of 1945--virtually every man, woman and child--would have used sticks and stones, if necessary, to defend the nation rather than dishonor their emperor.

 

[eohrnberger]

. . . still more damaged than had the US NOT dropped their ordinance.

We don’t know this.

You have trouble with the concept that a bomb dropped dropped on a location does damage to that location?
More so than if no bombs had dropped on that location?

Literally this regime has lied about everything, and the dotard in charge keeps jumping on social media to declare victory without even knowing what happened.

Same old TDS shtick.

What is it bout Trump that makes you folks so willing to humiliate yourselves daily over?

Speaking of humiliation, recall how many had only last week predicted:

• This would be the start WW III
• It will require US boots on the ground
• The US will get stuck in a ME quagmire
• Iran would shutdown the straights of Hormuz to oil shipping and an oil price spike

. . and it looks like all that was just chicken littles do what chicken littles do.

 

[eohrnberger]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html

But there was also evidence, according to two Israeli officials with knowledge of the intelligence, that Iran had moved equipment and uranium from the site in recent days. And there was growing evidence that the Iranians, attuned to Mr. Trump’s repeated threats to take military action, had removed 400 kilograms, or roughly 880 pounds, of uranium enriched to 60 percent purity. That is just below the 90 percent that is usually used in nuclear weapons.

This a clear confirmation how close the Iranians were to building multiple nuclear weapons.
A further confirmation that the actions recently taken should have happened sooner than they did, rather than trying to bribe the Iranians into behaving, as Obama and Biden tried and failed.

Now their facilities in which to build these nuclear weapons are damaged, if not destroyed.

The hope would be that intel can track down where that highly enriched fuel is, but then the question is 'and do what about it'? Blowing it up exactly the wrong thing to do.

Asked by text later in the day whether he meant that the fuel stockpile — which is stored in special casks small enough to fit in the trunks of about 10 cars — had been moved, he replied, “I do.” That appeared to be the mystery about the fuel’s fate that Mr. Vance was discussing.

Comments by Mr. Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in recent days suggest they believe that work has resumed, though no evidence to support the contention has been made public.

If so, the strikes on Fordo, Natanz and Isfahan may only reinforce the view among Iranian leaders that they need a weapon for survival of the government

Geez, you'd think that the Iranians would come to the conclusion that arming and paying for terrorist proxies and not building ICMBs and nuclear weapons might be the better trajectory for 'survival of the government'.

 

[ClaraD]

Yeah but there was a shoe sale those days so you may have missed it.

Tell us which personal wars?