Trump: I have 'absolute right to pardon myself'

[beancounter]

We’re all boiling frogs now.

There were plenty of people warning of the impending boil when the water was still warm.

I think the ostrich analogy would be more appropriate at this point.

 

[trouble13]

If he can pardon himself then he is beyond the reach of the law; i.e. above the law.

Its a nonsense question. He can't pardon himself before he is indicted. He can't be indicted before he leaves office.

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[Kobie]

Can you imagine the outrage of Obama supporters if he'd been put through this completely fabricated cluster of an investigation by a Republican-driven FBI?

The investigation is not “completely fabricated,” despite the incessant lies of Trump, his proxies, and his fanbois.

 

[trouble13]

Why did trump say he has the ability to pardon himself?

I don't know, ask trump. I assume he believes the potus has the authority to pardon anyone.

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[TheGoverness]

The investigation is not “completely fabricated,” despite the incessant lies of Trump, his proxies, and his fanbois.

And honestly, the more he keeps saying stuff like this, the more I think the investigation has merit.

 

[trouble13]

The investigation is not “completely fabricated,” despite the incessant lies of Trump, his proxies, and his fanbois.

Its only partly fabricated? Which parts are fabricated?

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[Cardinal]

Its a nonsense question. He can't pardon himself before he is indicted. He can't be indicted before he leaves office.

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It's impressive how much wrong you packed into such a short post. 1)A President cannot pardon himself. The DOJ specifically outlines that he cannot pardon himself. 2)You misunderstand the power of the pardon itself. A pardon can be issued at any time for anything, before, during or after investigation or indictment. The only situation a pardon cannot be used for is future, as yet to-be-committed crimes.

 

[Kobie]

Its a nonsense question. He can't pardon himself before he is indicted. He can't be indicted before he leaves office.

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Why can’t he pardon himself before indictment? That’s not a prerequisite.

 

[Cardinal]

I don't know, ask trump. I assume he believes the potus has the authority to pardon anyone.

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Do you believe that feigning stupidity makes your argument stronger?

 

[tecoyah]

How so? I'm not following your degraded conclusion. The constitution is a living document that is challenged often. We have the legislative and judicial branches to refine the document as time goes on.

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When (or if) the executive is allowed to bypass our laws and force SCOTUS interruption we lose part of what the Constitution demands and just needing the courts to decide shows the point of three branches is being tested. IF the SCOTUS is corrupted the system fails and democracy with it.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Can you imagine the outrage of Obama supporters if he'd been put through this completely fabricated cluster of an investigation by a Republican-driven FBI?

Can you imagine that this thread isn't about Obama?

 

[Risky Thicket]

We now have a President who believes he is the law and there is no way he can be criminally punished for anything he might do even if he kills somebody as he can pardon himself.

What will Congress do about this statement?

Nothing. It is what this Congress does.

 

[Rexedgar]

Its a nonsense question. He can't pardon himself before he is indicted. He can't be indicted before he leaves office.

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Can someone else pardon him before indictment?

 

[Risky Thicket]

And honestly, the more he keeps saying stuff like this, the more I think the investigation has merit.

There more he keeps saying stuff like this the more I think he needs to have his sanity evaluated by a real doctor.

 

[Samhain]

There is nothing that precludes him from doing it and he would certainly be impeached for it.

But at that point, you can't charge him with the crime that he pardoned himself for. Nor can you create a law after the fact and charge him with that.

Presidential pardons, impeachment, charges, and other topics of that vein have been scholar chit chat for almost as long as the country existed. I think Thomas Jefferson once opined that a President could kill someone, but you couldn't charge him until he was out of office, either via impeachment, resignation, or otherwise.

 

[Cardinal]

There is nothing that precludes him from doing it and he would certainly be impeached for it.

But at that point, you can't charge him with the crime that he pardoned himself for. Nor can you create a law after the fact and charge him with that.

It's the official position of the DOJ that a President can't pardon himself "under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case."

https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download

And why is that their position? Renato Mariotti puts it simply and accurately:

"Many legal experts call Trump’s legal arguments “novel,” but that doesn’t go far enough. His arguments have never been made before because they’re extreme and dangerous. They will be rejected by courts because they’re consistent with tyranny, not our Constitution."

 

[Cardinal]

I think Thomas Jefferson once opined that a President could kill someone, but you couldn't charge him until he was out of office, either via impeachment, resignation, or otherwise.

Link?

 

[apdst]

There's nothing in the Constitution that says he can't though it would violate at least two foundations of our legal system: no man is above the law and no may is his own jury. As a practical matter it doesn't matter. He couldn't avoid impeachment and once out of office if someone wanted to prosecute him they'd find a way.

The president--any president--would be impeached before any criminal trial takes place, therefore removing his executive authority, including pardoning power.

The issue is ****ing stupid.

 

[SheWolf]

Can you imagine the outrage from Trump type supporters if Obama had said this? Trump is basically saying he is above the law.

I really don't even believe the average Obama voter would have let him get away with the stuff Trump voters let Trump get away with. I live around a lot of Trump supporters, and they are a very unique in their nationalism and strange reasons for hating Obama.. birtherism, secret muslim, anti christ, etc.

 

[upsideguy]

Pardons dont prevent impeachments but trump has the power to pardon anyone he wants for any reason he wants.

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...and, if you use your power to obstruct justice, its obstruction of justice.

 

[Samhain]

Link?

Trying to go through my history to find where I read it and I'm coming up empty. I recall it was in one of his letters, but I could be misattributing a Hamilton opinon

 

[Samhain]

It's the official position of the DOJ that a President can't pardon himself "under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case."

https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download

And why is that their position? Renato Mariotti puts it simply and accurately:

"Many legal experts call Trump’s legal arguments “novel,” but that doesn’t go far enough. His arguments have never been made before because they’re extreme and dangerous. They will be rejected by courts because they’re consistent with tyranny, not our Constitution."

They can have that opinion, but the only law that is on the books that would check the President's pardoning power is the Constitution(against an impeachment charge only is prohibited). A Presidential Pardon has never been overridden because I don't believe there is a check against it. Maybe there should be.

 

[haymarket]

Nothing. It is what this Congress does.

Sadly, you are correct.

 

[Cardinal]

They can have that opinion, but the only law that is on the books that would check the President's pardoning power is the Constitution(against an impeachment charge only is prohibited). A Presidential Pardon has never been overridden because I don't believe there is a check against it. Maybe there should be.

See In re Murchison. It's the DOJ's official position that no man can be a judge in his own case for a reason.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/349/133/case.html

Trump can certainly try pardoning himself, but all he would accomplish is putting the country through yet another headache. Which, I know, is a good chunk of the reason for why people voted for him.

 

[trouble13]

Do you believe that feigning stupidity makes your argument stronger?

If you want to know why I think he has the authority to pardon himself you should of asked that. I don't know why trump thinks whatever it is he thinks beyond what he has said. My name aint hannity, I don't talk to him on the phone.

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