Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it

[Anthony60]

Unfortunately, for the consideration and respect which I am going to give to your "response", I rather suspect that I have considerably more training, experience, and success in legal and constitutional drafting and interpretation than you do.

Good for you. Still no.

 

[Anthony60]

Where to the words "classified", "classified information", "classify information", "declassify information", "classified document", or the like appear in the text of the Constitution of the United States of America?

Or are you talking about the super secret really hush-hush constitution that only the Illuminati know about?

Why do those words have to be in the Constitution? Hint; they don't.

 

[Plasmaball]

Of course it matters. If Trump is correct. The government is spreading false information.

No..it doesn't matter to the charges and if it's government owned.

But then again dearie asked about this and trumps lawyers went silent basically on the issue.

So again it's settled.

 

[pamak]

I get that you don't like Trump, and don't like anything he does. That doesn't change the Constitution.

He was POTUS when the documents were moved, like every other FPOTUS.

If that's the way it works, you can make up any absurd scenario you want.

You do not make any argument based on the words of the Constitution's text. In essence, you want others to accept your interpretations about a president's declassification powers even though there is not a single word in the constitution about such powers, but when others try to reason to counter your interpretations, you claim that their reasoning is not found anywhere in the constitution.

No other POTUS has taken classified documents to his house. A POTUS has the authority to do many things as part of his command, but nobody can exercise command with telepathy and without leaving some type of record that he issued orders to those who are tasked with carrying out his orders.

The absurd scenario is to interpreter a president's constitutional powers in a way that makes the current CIC less informed about the classification status of his government's most sensitive information than the previous CIC. So, yes, a president can declassify whatever he wants but he cannot do it in whatever WAY he wants. Secret declassification hiding in his mind is not within his legal powers

 

[JasperL]

My position is what I said, which is that it's not obvious that Trump has to provide evidence of declassification for it to have been done. Naturally the court would ask for evidence (and it did). It isn't obvious that if he can't provide evidence it amounts to proof that nothing was declassified.

No evidence something was done means there's no evidence something was done. Trump isn't special in that regard. If you say you 'did' anything, if you try to assert that thing in court, evidence will matter and you saying it, without more, is worth pretty much nothing. It is the same for Trump as it is some guy accused of murder and his evidence is, "I DIDN'T DO IT!!!" No jury accepts that self serving nonsense on its own. They have a duty to weigh the rest of the actual evidence in the record.

And there's no need for proof of the negative. No one can prove a negative. But the prima facie evidence of a document marked classified IS classified has to be overcome with evidence, and "I thought about it while shitting on my toilet 20 months ago" won't work.

I don't mind saying when I don't know something, and I can be a little stubborn about accepting weak evidence when someone says that I should know whether something is so or not. That is as much of a "position" as I'm taking

 

[Atomic Kid]

What I think does not matter. What can be proved is what matters.

Personally I think both Trump and the government are both full of shit. I do not believe Trump declassified anything and I do not believe the FBI had sufficient cause to search his home.

Good ol' trouble13! Always trying to have his cake and eat it too. Just like Special Master Dreary said about Trump's counselors. Yes, proof matters. That's why Judge Dreary is demanding it. In regard to the declassification and the accusations that the FBI lied about, or planted evidence during their search, Judge Dreary has basically told them it's time for them to either put up or shut up about it. You want to make those claims then fine. Make your statements to the court and present your proof and evidence and we'll go from there. If not, then you need to shut the **** up about it. Obviously the FBI had sufficient cause to search Mar A Lago, they listed the evidence they expected to find and why, the Magistrate signed off on it, and lo and behold they found exactly what it is they said they expected to find there.

 

[JasperL]

I get that you don't like Trump, and don't like anything he does. That doesn't change the Constitution.

You didn't address my point.....

He was POTUS when the documents were moved, like every other FPOTUS.

So what? Where in the law does it say moving a document declassified the document and the content. I'll wait here while you don't provide a link.... or not.

If that's the way it works, you can make up any absurd scenario you want.

It's not how it works, and obviously it's simple to think of a million examples why the idea is just nonsense.

Just imagine if Obama had asserted, in 2015 and 2016, in the heat of the email scandal, that he declassified every email sent or received by Hillary IN HIS MIND!!!, way back in 2012 or whenever those emails were sent/received. Documentation? LOL!! Who needs that? Obama said he did it, therefore it was done. God Save Obama!!! There's not a MAGA or conservative or anyone else who'd buy that bullcrap, but that's what you're telling us we should take seriously now. My reaction?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Why do those words have to be in the Constitution? Hint; they don't.

If they are NOT in the constitution then the constitution does not govern them.

Have you forgotten that you are one of the "originalists"?

 

[Mithros]

I get that you don't like Trump, and don't like anything he does. That doesn't change the Constitution.

He was POTUS when the documents were moved, like every other FPOTUS.

If that's the way it works, you can make up any absurd scenario you want.

A president storing classified government documents in an insecure personal location would be irresponsible, dangerous, and impeachable. But it is not illegal.

An ex-president is not president. We have one president at a time. Carter, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump are US citizens. They have no more power than any other US citizen.

So Trump has a valid legal defense that it was not illegal to move the documents to Mara Lago as he was likely president when he ordered it. But keeping them is plainly illegal, same with hiding them and lying to investigators.

You may like Trump, but he belongs in jail just like anyone else who steals classified documents.

 

[JasperL]

What I think does not matter. What can be proved is what matters.

Personally I think both Trump and the government are both full of shit. I do not believe Trump declassified anything and I do not believe the FBI had sufficient cause to search his home.

LOL... All they did was find 100 classified docs Trump LIED about returning. Seems like their intelligence was pretty good to me!!

 

[roughdraft274]

Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it

The former president insisted in an interview with Sean Hannity that the documents at issue in the Mar-a-Lago probe were all declassified. Evidence, he added, isn’t really needed.

www.politico.com

And his Jerry Springer IQ followers will suck this shit down.

Just by thinking it?

****, if only he had a brain and was capable of thinking.

 

[Plasmaball]

If they are NOT in the constitution then the constitution does not govern them.

Have you forgotten that you are one of the "originalists"?

He doesn't even know what that means

 

[Plasmaball]

What I think does not matter. What can be proved is what matters.

Personally I think both Trump and the government are both full of shit. I do not believe Trump declassified anything and I do not believe the FBI had sufficient cause to search his home.

I mean they did have enough cause.

 

[mike2810]

What I think does not matter. What can be proved is what matters.

Personally I think both Trump and the government are both full of shit. I do not believe Trump declassified anything and I do not believe the FBI had sufficient cause to search his home.

thanks for the reply.
Then you must have been ok with Trump having classified documents. The ones that the FBI found by carrying out a lawful search warrant. Seems NARA and maybe others realized classified documents were missing. The FBI found them.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

You seem to be the one that is not taking it seriously, by your failure to answer. What is to stop the POTUS from declassifying items, in the executive branch, in any manner he deems appropriate?

The fact that he told no one. The fact that no underling took the appropriate steps to make Trump's alleged order take effect. Therefore no declassification took place. Until the order is carried out, nothing is declassified. Just like . . .

Trump thought about joining the mob at the Capitol on 1/6. He even ordered his detail to take him to the Capital. His detail refused to obey his order. Therefore Trump did not go to the Capital that day, no matter how much he thought about it.

Trump may have ordered breakfast. But unless someone carried out the order, no breakfast!

 

[Deuce]

When Comey announced the decision to not bring charges against Clinton in July 2016 — shortly after Clinton had secured the Democratic nomination to run for president against Donald Trump — he said agents decided not to pursue criminal charges under the statute because they could not prove she intended to violate laws like the Espionage Act.

Early Comey draft accused Clinton of gross negligence on emails

An early draft of former FBI Director James Comey’s statement closing out the Hillary Clinton email case accused the former secretary of State of having been “grossly negligent” in handling classif…

thehill.com

None of the documents in her possession were classified.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

My position is what I said, which is that it's not obvious that Trump has to provide evidence of declassification for it to have been done. Naturally the court would ask for evidence (and it did). It isn't obvious that if he can't provide evidence it amounts to proof that nothing was declassified.

I don't mind saying when I don't know something, and I can be a little stubborn about accepting weak evidence when someone says that I should know whether something is so or not. That is as much of a "position" as I'm taking.

"I declassified documents . . . " is what is known as an affirmative defense. An affirmative defense means it falls to the person making the claim to provide evidence of the claim. It does not follow that Trump can then say to the DOJ "Prove that I didn't declassify documents!"

This is because, as anyone versed in logic and reason knows, one cannot prove a negative. Just like someone saying "There is green cheese on the moon. Prove I'm wrong." It is not reasonable to demand someone prove something for which there is no evidence.

There is absolutely no evidence before the court that the documents clearly marked 'classified' were ever declassified. Therefore unless team Trump presents evidence, the court is going to rule that the documents are indeed classified.

The President's thoughts are nothing. His orders are everything. All Trump has to do is declare under oath that he gave the order, name the person to whom he gave the order, and have that person testify under oath that they did indeed receive the order. It is not that difficult.

 

[trouble13]

I mean they did have enough cause.

You don't know that

 

[trouble13]

thanks for the reply.
Then you must have been ok with Trump having classified documents. The ones that the FBI found by carrying out a lawful search warrant. Seems NARA and maybe others realized classified documents were missing. The FBI found them.

Firstly, I would like to know what their predicted was for conducting a raid on his home. No disrespect toward the magistrate but I am not entirely convinced they had reasonable cause regardless of the magistrate giving them permission.

Secondly, I want to know the nature of these alleged classified documents that he had retained

Thirdly, I want to hear Trumps explanation

I can't say if I am ok or not with Trump until I know the answers to the things I listed. I'm not ready to jump to any conclusion as of yet.

One thing that is giving me doubt about the allegation being made is that I can't find a rational reason why Trump would intentionally keep papers that he did not believe he was entitled to keep. Especially considering the bloodlust his opposition has for his head on a platter. It does not make sense.

 

[Plasmaball]

You don't know that

Yes we literally do
1) the released the warrant.
2) they found the shit they where looking for
3) trump has basically admitted to it.

So I mean that's what you are basically going up against with your " you don't know that".

We do, you are just doing your thing as usual

 

[Deuce]

You don't know that

You don’t know if Trump exists.

 

[HangLow]

What I think does not matter. What can be proved is what matters.
Personally I think both Trump and the government are both full of shit.
I do not believe Trump declassified anything and I do not believe the FBI had sufficient cause to search his home.

​

 

[LouC]

View attachment 67414862​

 

[snakestretcher]

Sorry, laws can't supersede the Constitution.

What does it say in the Constitution about a POTUS having unlimited powers?

 

[snakestretcher]

Another case in point. It's good that the DOE has these internal rules, but it says nothing about declassification procedures related to the President.

But it states categorically that only trained, qualified DoE employees may declassify certain materials. No mention of 'except the POTUS'. AFAIK Trump never received training in declassification. But what is more disturbing is the empty Top Secret document jackets. Where are the contents? He already broke the law by removing those documents from a secure government facility to a closet on a golf resort, but that's a relatively minor issue compared with missing Top Secret materials.