This born rich guy fails so badly on the economic front.
They were forgiven because he wasn't paying them.
Have you ever wondered why his lenders had forgiven his debts? Especially when they're in the millions?
Do you compare yourselves to corporations when it comes to loans?
Oh boy.........
You are falling back. Ethical doesn't matter to trumpettes because that line has long been crossed. So now everything is measured solely by "was it legal". Well sure... we can play that.
Pick one.
Oh boy indeed...
Have you ever wondered why his lenders had forgiven his debts?
Especially when they're in the millions?
Do these lenders explain why?
Do you compare yourselves to corporations when it comes to loans?
Oh boy.........
DoJ guidance...President can't be charged with a crime.Yet this supposed highly regulated bank which would likely have to submit to annual audits of their loans and forgiveness.
To which Trump has been submitting his tax returns to the IRS for his legal adult life. Which he has yet to be charged or accused of a crime.
To which however the New York times legally or illegally obtained, you said it "TAX Returns" Which the US Government has access to, the IRS and the FBI as well, yet not one of them has sent an Agent to his door for committing a crime.
What is your point?
Oh boy indeed...
New York Times: Tax records show Trump had over $270 million in debt forgiven after failing to repay lenders
President Donald Trump has had more than $270 million in debt forgiven since 2010 after he failed to repay his lenders for a Chicago skyscraper development, The New York Times reported Tuesday.www.cnn.com
The real question is what those lenders got from the government in return.So he got his debt erased in a legal manner.
So i guess that means we can continue moving on with life.
My Apologies I completely misread and misunderstood your post. That was my error. I re-read your post so I would like to clarify,
Can you do me a favor Im going to google the heck out of this, but can you provide context to this? I thought I heard something, about it, But I dont know if its true or not.
Let me clarify my statement. To be fair, actually I do not know the ACTUAL legalities/law of someone taking another person's SAT test ( i will research though). I would ASSUME that it is illegal (and going off of your post). Maybe its not, its just a civil penalty rather than a criminal penalty.
That being said, lets apply apply a crime.
Trump tells someone to rob a diamond store as he wants X diamond. Yes the person that actually committed the crime would be guilty when caught and if there was proof that trump coordinated and sanctioned/funded the action he would be an accessory to the crime.
Trump Pays someone to take his SAT, the person taking the test for another person would be caught, the person who sanctioned it would be an accessory? If you are saying that there is a LEGAL way to do this, Then we have some issues and that should be address and corrected as I DO NOT agree with this. Bet retroacting the law is now how it works that addressing and moving forward.
OK Anyways... moving on to the topic as the diversion was like Helix and the Student loans, nice moral diversion but has no relevance.
Please respond to below,
The IRS has Trumps Tax returns YES or NO?
NYP supposedly has Trumps Tax return Yes or No?
If NYP has Trump Taxes, then they are reading the exact same thing the IRS has right? Yes or NO?
If the IRS is reading the same thing, While a direct quote that 300mill was forgiven, this looks bad. BUT if there is context provided legally to the IRS. What is the problem?
If the IRS does NOT have the same thing that the NYP has, Then someone is lying. Is it the NYP with FALSE Tax returns? Or Has Trump submitted False Tax returns to the IRS?
If Trump has Submitted False Tax Returns, Than what is the NYP reporting on? As How did they get a hold of Trumps "Real Tax Returns"?
Please respond thanks!
DoJ guidance...President can't be charged with a crime.
Wait a second... you didn't get the context in the OP?Hey! Thanks! This actually provides Context. I appreciate it
1) Trump Borrowed $700million 10 years ago, (When I say Trump, his investment LLC's did, NOT Trump individually)
2) Over the course of 10 years a TOTAL of $270 million was forgiven. Meaning that it was NOT a single shot $270million forgiven, This was a bunch of loans over the course of 10 years. VERY misleading in the original Tweet.
3) There are LEGAL entities, 2 LLC's to be clear in which have obtained the loans. NOT Trump individually. When you file taxes, Trump files personal taxes and each Commercial Entity files it own.
4) These legal entities are protected in different ways. Have collateral and Financial responsibilities different from in individual Tax return.
From your link
"Trump, according to the newspaper, charged that Deutsche had engaged in "predatory lending practices." The bank responded with its own lawsuit demanding repayment of the loan.
In July 2010, Deutsche Bank, Fortress and Trump reached a private settlement without disclosing the terms, the Times reported. But Trump's federal tax returns and a loan document show that he had about $270 million in debt from the project forgiven."
This went to court, there were 2 lawsuits. So this was adjudicated, NOT some back door underhanded smokey room with a poker table deal. There was a legitimate settlement between both parties.
So there was a legal Settlement that JUSTIFIED the $270million Debt.
Now to the WHOLE Trump doesnt pay Taxes BS.
1) You all understand that many of the investment assets are under LLC's and Corporations right? They pay their OWN separate corporate taxes?
2) You do understand that Trump as an individual pays separate and different taxes from these Corps & LLCs right.
3) From your link
"The new details gleaned from the President's tax records build on previous New York Times reports that detailed how Trump paid no federal income taxes whatsoever in 10 out of 15 years beginning in 2000 because he reported losing significantly more than he made. "
The IRS MUST have these 15 years of Tax returns RIGHT? So if he committed tax fraud, They IRS would know and the IRS would send The FEDS to Trumps door? Why have they NOT?
Context... Logica and Facts....
vs
Emotion, outrage and self perceived morals and ethics....
I agree. If he is reelected the statute of limitations will protect him from a variety of charges...but not all of them.New York Times: Tax records show Trump had over $270 million in debt forgiven after failing to repay lenders
President Donald Trump has had more than $270 million in debt forgiven since 2010 after he failed to repay his lenders for a Chicago skyscraper development, The New York Times reported Tuesday.www.cnn.com
Per @poweRob providing the Context This loans was done in 2010 well before he was President. Per the LINK in 2010 they litigated the LOANS and a "settlement of the forgiveness" was completed in 2010
" In July 2010, Deutsche Bank, Fortress and Trump reached a private settlement without disclosing the terms, "
But if taxes has been submitted from 2010 to 2020, and he was the president in 2017, This means he was NOT shielded for 7 years when these loans took place. He could have and should have been charged with a crime if he committed one. WELL before he even considered to be POTUS.
You come across as an honest, respectful, and intelligent poster. I'll try my best to respond in kind.
I was being a bit facetious to get the point across about legality, but no, It's neither an established fact or crime. His niece divulged this story to the world via her book and press, that all the family was aware that Trump cheated on his SAT.
Some lawyers opined on this topic, as it became relevant during the pay for college scandal.
"Cheating on the SAT is not, in and of itself, illegal because it does not violate any law,"
As far as I know, YES and No
I'm not a tax expert, but speaking to someone I know who is, there is a lot of information that we can not directly ascertain from just a tax return alone.
While it may or may not show the loan forgiveness on the return, we only know it was reported from someone, and I think we both accept it was forgiven.
I cannot prove it was legal or corrupt, as I don't have access to the information.
If you accept it is possible to have large loans forgiven by legal or corrupt (illegal) means, then we have to accept it was done one way or another, without having the full facts in front of us.
You are automatically assuming there was no impropriety and everyone has access to the same 'honest' and intelligent means of getting large loans forgiven.
I'm leaning towards the impropriety version, as there are other things he has done in his past, that lead me to think this way.
I agree with you that business loans can be legally forgiven without impropriety though. Happened a lot with the Covid-19 rescue packages, recently.
I agree. If he is reelected the statute of limitations will protect him from a variety of charges...but not all of them.
Maybe because of this???? unfortunately that does not make sense. Let me say it again. These loans were procured prior to 2010. Totally $700million.
Deutsche and Trump's/Entities, Settled in 2010 WELL before he was Potus.
if he committed a tax crime. he could have been charged between 2010 and 2017 could he not?
Why has he NOT been charged during those 7 years?
Because of Context. Trump went to court against Deutsche and the SETTLEMENT was $270million in Forgiveness. It was NOT just the BANK choosing to forgive it was done through a legal arbitrations.
His niece divulged this story to the world via her book and press, that all the family was aware that Trump cheated on his SAT.
Wait a second... you didn't get the context in the OP?
The tweet in the OP word for word says...
“The president’s federal income tax records, obtained by The New York Times, show for the first time that, since 2010, his lenders have forgiven about $287 million in debt that he failed to repay.”"Since 2010" means it wasn't a one term shot like you are saying you were deceived into believing. And the tweet has the link to the NYT story. All the context you needed was right there in the OP.
Maybe because of this?
.The IRS Admits It Doesn't Audit the Rich Because It's Too Hard
Only poor people have to pay back unpaid taxes.www.gq.com as IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig confirmed in a letter to Congress recently, the agency literally can't afford to audit the rich, so it's pursuing the poor instead.ProPublica has published multiple stories on the sad state of the modern IRS over the past year. They found that a person is more likely to get audited if they make $20,000 a year than if they make $400,000. That's because it takes a lot less time, money, and people to investigate someone who receives the earned income tax credit, one of the government's largest anti-poverty programs, than it does to look into the complicated holdings and filings of someone else making 20 times as much. And even further up the economic ladder, things aren't any better: Millionaires were 80 percent less likely to be audited in 2018 than they were in 2011.
Looks like a little more is coming to light.
Looks like you could say he did it legitimately or underhandedly, based on your perspective.
He basically blamed the market downturn, and argued he shouldn't have to pay back his loan, then further threatened to sue the banks for 'predatory lending' practices. Something that would tie them up in courts for years.
They relented and let him off the hook.
I don't see that as something intelligent and a method everyone can do. I see that as underhanded (though in this case, not corruption).
I lost a lot of money on the market downturn, and assure you my brokers would not reverse my losses -- even if I did threaten to sue them for taking advantage of me during the market downturn. I'm sure the same can be said for 99% of those who had losses.
Good explanations. I'm familiar with using LLC to protect assets, but, just to be clear, you don't find it underhanded to threaten lenders with lawsuits to get out of mounting losses? Doesn't exactly sound like textbook advice to me.Actually you are applying 2 different investment methods though.
His application is based on the Tangible asset, that was; (Below are my assumptions of what I know, so its my opinion and assumptions)
1) Devalued due to markets. (House market bubble as an example) *Example* Original Development cost was $600million (you normally borrow +20% so that would be $720million) Project over runs and the Project cost is $800million, Short $80million. Either you borrow more or the project stops. Now during 2008 initial crash, land was cheap, but development cost as at a stand still. So If he had borrowed lets say 2000 to 2010 he had a massive loss on the property valuation. So the property was worth less then he borrowed (negative equity) The last part would be operating expense once open. Was the Property Net positive or already in the black. ALL these negative losses can be claimed on your taxes.
2) The legal casualty loses that you are able to claim on taxes - For a Property you may have multiple lines of losses, Property Valuation, Depreciation, Loss of Income, etc. For a Stock you can only claim the Capital Loss. There are more lines of losses on a Property Developer to claim then there are on stocks.
3) The Entities holding these loans (NOT Trump now) have bankruptcy protections. I bet Trump told Deutsche settle or these properties go bankrupt and you get nothing. Thats WHY an WHAT LLC's/Entities as well as Bankruptcies are for.
1) Due to the settlement, if Deutsche had a case, they wouldnt have settled. Even if it was tied up its their money. There must have been some evidence of concern.
2) Deutsche settled period.
3) Property Development and a tangible asset linked to an LLC is VERY different from investing in the market through stocks.
The bankruptcy protections due to stock investments are different. The assets and losses are very different. I am not sure about the Casualty losses of Property depreciation and income loss is different from Stock market losses.
To compare those 2 types of risk as one and the same I dont think is fair.
As for intelligent. As a business person in general, Take Trump out as a whole. You SHOULD setup developments under LLC's to protect the individual's assets separate during a project. As a matter of fact, part of my job is that, I work with developers big and small. I strongly suggest to ALL the investors to create an LLC holding company to purchase the property then develop it. The Purchasing entity is responsible for all collateral and loan documents.
This is economics 101, leverage and protecting individual assets. It sounds "sneaky or under handed" But VERY common in practice. Especially developers.
As the actual situation. Fact is it went to litigation to which it was settled through arbitration. You cant deny that.
Thats FACTUALLY different and the "implication" that Trump got the bank to forgive his debt and that he some how avoid taxes or used that to his benefit as a shady deal well is not contextually true.
Through a legal process $270million was forgiven and he was able to apply and write of the balance of $270 to avoid point taxes on something that was forgiven. Thats the basic simplest way to look at it. There was no illegal actions as it was moderated by the courts. It was legally filed on his so called tax returns to which the IRS has them.
Thats it...?
Great point.... Threatening is threatening. Yes that sounds terrible.Good explanations. I'm familiar with using LLC to protect assets, but, just to be clear, you don't find it underhanded to threaten lenders with lawsuits to get out of mounting losses? Doesn't exactly sound like textbook advice to me.
I think the people he owes half a Billion dollars to don't resolve those that screw them by using the courts, just a thought.This born rich guy fails so badly on the economic front.
Do you understand the Tax law? I pre-pay my Taxes. I have filed Estimated taxes for the last 10 years. If I over pay based on my LEGAL fillings, I apply the over-payement as a PRE Payment for the Following year to reduces my Quarterly Filings.
SO YES.... You can Pre Pay your taxes under the estimated income you would likely make for the following year.
Do you NOT understand or Know that this exist?
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