Trump created this problem, as he always does

[redbeer]

So it's the usual from the Cultists.

You don't want to talk about the fact that Trump did create this mess by tearing apart the agreement, for no other reason than it had Obamas name on it, because I guarantee he actually knew absolutely NOTHING about the agreement.

And all you want to do is piss and moan that Trump gets criticized rather than actually addressing the criticism.

Of course the Cultists will complain and think they're doing right by "defending democracy", as they say. They act like religious zealots but with politics sitting on the high moral chair in the room.

 

[LouC]

If Trump decides to stay out of the Iran conflict, then dems will piss and moan, and say that he needs to intervene.

Not this Democrat.

If Trump decides to take action in the Iran conflict, then dems will piss and moan, and say that he should not intervene.

He should not intervene and or get us and our Military more involved in the Middle East, period!

That has been my stance with all Presidents going back to before I even became eligible to Vote, and all during my 42 years as a Registered Republican, and up to now since I was LEFT out of the Republican Party in 2016 due to MAGA.

 

[redbeer]

Not this Democrat.

He should not intervene and or get us and our Military more involved in the Middle East, period!

That has been my stance with all Presidents going back to before I even became eligible to Vote, and all during my 42 years as a Registered Republican, and up to now since I was LEFT out of the Republican Party in 2016 due to MAGA.

I'll agree with you here, but if Iran attacks US citizens or troops in the region that's a different story. We don't need to be getting involved in the insanity going on in the ME today. I just hope Trump is not listening to prophecy guru's or taking religion into his decision, but idk.

 

[SavannahMann]

It's not a minor scenario we're in. This is not a game and there are enormous ramifications of all decisions and directions in this situation.

There are a wide variety of opinions, many good and intelligent ones. Trump is and always has been one to listen to and consider many various options and ideas, including opposing ones. Once, he's done that, he decides. I'm confident he is doing just that, and there will be no rebellion. The Republican party is more united than at any time I can remember.

I'm sorry. Apparently we are talking about two different people. I'm talking about Donald Trump, President of the United States. A man who hasn't done a single thing smart even during his first term as President.

Trump's problem is the last idea he hears or has, is always the best one. So he changes plans on the fly. Let's do that. Oh wait, I just read a Tweet, let's do this instead. No, we will do what I originally said. Wait, I have an even better idea.

Right now, Europe is busy negotiating with Iran. The apparent hope from the American side is that Europe can talk Iran into being reasonable. Now, if you try and explain that this was Trump's plan with his demand for Unconditional Surrender I'll probably have to take a shower after I laugh so long and hard I soil myself.

I mean we are talking about Trump. A man who slaps Tarrifs on and then takes them away a week later. He does so claiming we now have trade deals with 200 nations when there are only 195 and about fifty of them have no trade to speak of. The same Trump who bumbles through everything looking Smug and Serious.

As for his advisors, he hired a bunch of Yes Men to hold the jobs. We have DUI hire Hegseth. We have Tulsi Gabbard for National Security and he's listening to her so well that he's now talking about getting rid of the entire Council. We have Rubio at State and nobody is talking to him. Which great advisors is he supposedly listening to? His Chairman of the Joint Chiefs who just knifed him in a Congressional Hearing by disagreeing with Trump on pretty much everything?

The one thing we can hope for is that Trump doesn't actually negotiate with Iran because he will surrender Israel to them and call it Genius.

Trump fled the G-7 claiming something bigger was on the horizon. Unconditional Surrender. Then he says. Oh I'll decide in two weeks. That literally means he's Too Weak to make a decision. He hopes it blows over in such a way he can blame someone over if it goes badly, or he can claim success if it goes well.

I mean seriously, if you were a foreign leader and heard that the Trump Administration was on your side you would pale and then ask. "Quickly, what is the good news?" Because having Trump behind you means you spend all your time watching him to see when he Dips out.

Are you getting the point yet? Trump is pathetic. The worst parts of the claims of Biden, apply more accurately to Trump. He can't make up his mind, he won't stand on an issue for more than fifteen minutes. And as his aptly applied moniker shows. He will always chicken out.

 

[LouC]

I'll agree with you here, but if Iran attacks US citizens or troops in the region that's a different story.

Our Military and U.S. Civilians supporting our Military constantly being in the region to threaten Iran et al is one of the reasons there is so much tension there.
We need to get them out.
If Iran is attacking them then we should repel such attacks but we should not use any such attacks as allowances to go to war with Iran.
If Iran directly attacks America and American Citizens then Congress should consider issuing a formal Declaration of War.

We don't need to be getting involved in the insanity going on in the ME today.

I agree most vehemently.

I just hope Trump is not listening to prophecy guru's or taking religion into his decision, but idk.

I just pray KING MAGAT aka President Donald Trump doesn't do anything to make the situation worse.

 

[medi]

It's not like you offered anything insightful at all, you immediately deflected to the Democrats.

Trump should back down from this one, US military intervention will only make matters worse. We did have a deal with Iran before Trump regarding the development of nuclear weapons. Trump threw it out, and now we're in a bigger mess. Iran is even contemplating leaving the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty now.

If we're to have meaningful progress in terms of restricting Iran from weapons, it will need to come through diplomacy and not military interventionism.

It is actually this part of what you wrote that has me wondering something:

If we're to have meaningful progress in terms of restricting Iran from weapons, it will need to come through diplomacy and not military interventionism.

How many administrations have tried that diplomacy route?

Well, maybe I am trying to find out how much diplomatic back-and-forth you think is too much? Never too much?

And while we are giving thought to the actions of other administrations, have any other administrations engaged in military activity against that regime in Iran?

 

[JMR]

You missed the point. The point being that no matter WHAT Trump does or doesn't do, dems will piss and moan about what he did, or didn't do.

The clinical term for this phenomenon is TDS.


Trump loves criticism. It gives him reason to come up with clever nicknames for incompetent democrat leaders like 'Pocahontas', 'Newscum', 'Crooked Hillary', 'Sleepy Joe', Lyin' Kamala' et. al.

Flag poles on the White House lawn are meaningful to Trump, apparently.

Flag poles and parades are top of his list.

Saying that Trump does a lousy job as president is not TDS...it's called the truth. Constantly defending his inadequacies is TDS..

 

[SkyChief]

Flag poles and parades are top of his list.

Saying that Trump does a lousy job as president is not TDS...it's called the truth.

Of course it is. It doesn't matter what Trump does, or doesn't do. TDS demands that one must ALWAYS disagree with Trump even though that person intellectually knows that Trump is right on an issue or policy. TDS demands hostility towards Trump - even when it is illogical to do so.

Name one thing that Trump did (or didn't do), that you agree with. Just one.

Constantly defending his inadequacies is TDS..

Nah - that's a fairly common LWL misconception. According to Psychology Today:

TDS is a term used to describe a form of toxic criticism and negative reaction to President Trump’s statements and political actions. . . . . Signs of TDS can be observed along a continuum of reactions, ranging from verbal expressions of intense hostility toward President Trump to overt acts of aggression and even violence against anyone supporting or anything symbolizing him.

source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/anger

 

[Rogue Valley]

Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The U.S. certified in April 2017 and in July 2017 that Iran was complying with the deal. On 13 October 2017 President Trump announced that he would not make the certification required under the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act, accusing Iran of violating the spirit of the deal and calling on the U.S. Congress and international partners to "address the deal's many serious flaws". On 8 May 2018 the U.S. officially withdrew after Trump signed a Presidential Memorandum ordering sanctions reinstatement. In 2025, the consequences of the U.S. withdrawal from the agreement became acutely evident when its ally Israel attacked Iran on June 13, 2025, despite a lack of proof that Iran has been developing any nuclear weapons.

 

[JMR]

Of course it is. It doesn't matter what Trump does, or doesn't do. TDS demands that one must ALWAYS disagree with Trump even though that person intellectually knows that Trump is right on an issue or policy. TDS demands hostility towards Trump - even when it is illogical to do so.

Name one thing that Trump did (or didn't do), that you agree with. Just one.

Nah - that's a fairly common LWL misconception. According to Psychology Today:


source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/anger

He is stopping production of the penny.

 

[SavannahMann]

He is stopping production of the penny.

So everything will cost two or three cents more since no business is going to round down.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

According to Trump's Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Iran is not currently building a nuclear weapon and the Supreme Leader has not authorized the resumption of a weapons program. This assessment is consistent with past intelligence reports.

It is quite likely that Iran does not want a nuke. Iran's bitter enemy, Israel, has between 75 to 200 nukes. (Israel does not publicize her nuclear stockpile.)

The Times reports, "President Trump declared on May 8, 2018, that he was withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal, unraveling the signature foreign policy achievement of his predecessor Barack Obama, isolating the United States from its Western allies and sowing uncertainty before a risky nuclear negotiation with North Korea.

"The decision leaves the 2015 agreement reached by seven countries after more than two years of grueling negotiations in tatters. The United States will now reimpose the stringent sanctions it imposed on Iran before the deal and is considering new penalties.

"Iran said it will remain in the deal, which tightly restricted its nuclear ambitions, in return for ending the sanctions that had crippled its economy.

"So did France, Germany and Britain, raising the prospect of a trans-Atlantic clash as European companies face the return of American sanctions for doing business with Iran. China and Russia, also signatories to the deal, are likely to join Iran in accusing the United States of violating the accord."

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Trump will decide whether or not the US gets directly involved in the Iran-Israel conflict within the next two weeks, the White House has said.

Somebody in the Trump administration has to be aware that Iran is far stronger than Iraq was in 2003, when the U.S. started the war with Iraq.

The Iraq War lasted eight years.

In the current Israel/Iran war Iran's ground units, armored units, air force, and naval units have not been touched. She still has plenty of ballistic missiles and drones. She controls terrorist organizations in Gaza, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan, and other Islamic states. She can shut off the oil passing through the Straight of Hormuz in a heartbeat.

Does Trump really want to shake this hornets nest?

 

[Sandy Shanks]

The Framers placed the President in command of America's military. They never imagined that Americans would be foolish enough to elect a man like Trump to the Presidency.

According to Trump's Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Iran is not currently building a nuclear weapon and the Supreme Leader has not authorized the resumption of a weapons program. This assessment is consistent with past intelligence reports.

It is quite likely that Iran does not want a nuke. Iran's bitter enemy, Israel, has between 75 to 200 nukes. (Israel does not publicize her nuclear stockpile.)

When it comes to command of America's military, Trump is clueless.

Plus, he does not listen to anyone. His cabinet consists of fools, picked because of their loyalty, not their expertise. If Trump is dumb enough to get us involved in a Middle East war, America will be in big trouble.

Trump has rejected the intelligence from his director of intelligence because he did not like the intell. He cannot provide a basis for his rejection. For a President to reject intell because he doesn't like it is very dangerous.

With a remarkable lack of insight Trump says he will not use ground troops if he bombs Iran. The dumb-ass doesn't have a choice. The sixth grader next door knows we already have ground troops in the Middle East -- 40,000 of them to be exact.

Our commander, Trump, does not know this, but our ground units are well within range of Iran's ballistic missiles or are vulnerable to terrorist organizations controlled by Iran.

As the overall commander of military operations, Trump is either very stupid or he is lying to the American people. Take your pick.

Americans do know this about Trump. When it come to military operations, the President should keep his mouth shut. Trump doesn't even know that, and the enemy is listening to every word.

Trump is dangerous. As the President, he doesn't even know when to keep his mouth shut!

 

[phoenix2020]

Somebody in the Trump administration has to be aware that Iran is far stronger than Iraq was in 2003, when the U.S. started the war with Iraq.

The Iraq War lasted eight years.

In the current Israel/Iran war Iran's ground units, armored units, air force, and naval units have not been touched. She still has plenty of ballistic missiles and drones. She controls terrorist organizations in Gaza, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan, and other Islamic states. She can shut off the oil passing through the Straight of Hormuz in a heartbeat.

Does Trump really want to shake this hornets nest?

Technically speaking, the war lasted a few weeks at most. The following occupation and nation-building misadventure is what lasted years.

 

[JMR]

So everything will cost two or three cents more since no business is going to round down.

That's nothing compared to his tariffs.

 

[SavannahMann]

That's nothing compared to his tariffs.

You won't get any disagreement from me on that one. My point is that the idea that stopping production of the penny was a good move, which met approval, was not a good idea. It was merely one of his less bad ideas.

 

[markdc]

I'm totally okay with kicking Iran in the ass.

We should have done it 46 years ago.

46 years ago, we reaped the whirlwind of our regime change of 1953, one of Eisenhower’s worst mistakes.

Great powers NEVER learn that regime change almost always leads to disaster down the road.

Mark

 

[markdc]

For those of you who support regime change in Iran, read these two books.

Book 1
https://www.amazon.com/Blowback-Con...blowback+chalmers+johnso,stripbooks,85&sr=1-2

Book 2
https://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Am...1750541757&sprefix=overthrow+st,aps,96&sr=8-1

Mark

 

[ModernDiogenes]

If Trump decides to stay out of the Iran conflict, then dems will piss and moan, and say that he needs to intervene.

If Trump decides to take action in the Iran conflict, then dems will piss and moan, and say that he should not intervene.

Why are Trump supporters always so worried about what the Democrats are going to do?

Do the homework, figure out where you stand in the issue that is hopefully the right thing to do, and get on your guy to do that right thing. That’s what EVERYONE should do.

In my case the homework says that you can’t destroy Iran’s nuclear capability without destroying their Fordo Nuclear site, which is in a mountain. That only one non-nuclear bomb in the world has the ability to breach and destroy it. That bomb is the 32,000 lbs bunker buster, and only one plane in the world has the capability to deliver that bomb on site; the B-2 bomber and we are the only nation that has it configured to carry that bomb to the target.

So do WE destroy it or not, because only we can?

I know where I stand on it.

I think if you really are planning to use nuclear energy only for civilian purposes you don’t build your plutonium creator into the base of a mountain. I think Israel has given us an excuse to correct this. We tell them to clear the area because in six hours it’s toast. Enough time for them to run for the hills. Then with a screen of Israeli jet fighters to commit them to this and make it a non-unilateral proposition we fly two B-2s with two bombs and flatten that mountain and the high grade plutonium creator within it. (Optional, no warning and you destroy not only the site but most of the people Iran needs to manage such a site who are on staff and in site - I go with the warning the first time)

Then we back off with the caveat that we know they were lying, they left us no choice, we’re done for now but if they insist on doing anything stupid in response or try to rebuild it we’ll be back.

 

[Hamish Howl]

46 years ago, we reaped the whirlwind of our regime change of 1953, one of Eisenhower’s worst mistakes.

Great powers NEVER learn that regime change almost always leads to disaster down the road.

Mark

Okay. So what?

 

[911Sparky]

You missed the point. The point being that no matter WHAT Trump does or doesn't do, dems will piss and moan about what he did, or didn't do.

The clinical term for this phenomenon is TDS.


Trump loves criticism. It gives him reason to come up with clever nicknames for incompetent democrat leaders like 'Pocahontas', 'Newscum', 'Crooked Hillary', 'Sleepy Joe', Lyin' Kamala' et. al.

Flag poles on the White House lawn are meaningful to Trump, apparently.

Yes, trump loves criticism, that's why he called ABC and raised hell (or one of his subordinates did) and got Terry Moran fired after their interview.
trump is the most thin skinned politician in my lifetime, saying he loves criticism, is just delusional.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

/

Why are Trump supporters always so worried about what the Democrats are going to do?

Do the homework, figure out where you stand in the issue that is hopefully the right thing to do, and get on your guy to do that right thing. That’s what EVERYONE should do.

In my case the homework says that you can’t destroy Iran’s nuclear capability without destroying their Fordo Nuclear site, which is in a mountain. That only one non-nuclear bomb in the world has the ability to breach and destroy it. That bomb is the 32,000 lbs bunker buster, and only one plane in the world has the capability to deliver that bomb on site; the B-2 bomber and we are the only nation that has it configured to carry that bomb to the target.

So do WE destroy it or not, because only we can?

I know where I stand on it.

I think if you really are planning to use nuclear energy only for civilian purposes you don’t build your plutonium creator into the base of a mountain. I think Israel has given us an excuse to correct this. We tell them to clear the area because in six hours it’s toast. Enough time for them to run for the hills. Then with a screen of Israeli jet fighters to commit them to this and make it a non-unilateral proposition we fly two B-2s with two bombs and flatten that mountain and the high grade plutonium creator within it. (Optional, no warning and you destroy not only the site but most of the people Iran needs to manage such a site who are on staff and in site - I go with the warning the first time)

Then we back off with the caveat that we know they were lying, they left us no choice, we’re done for now but if they insist on doing anything stupid in response or try to rebuild it we’ll be back.

Well, looks like I called that one.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I just wish Trump had done it for the right reason: that Iran is a rogue nation that can’t have nuclear capability, and not that he wanted the narrative changed from that crappy parade and his falling numbers.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I'm okay with saying out of that mess.

We learned hard lessons about mission creep with Vietnam and Afghanistan - - how a "quick" and "decisive" military intervention can turn into a 20 year conflict.

Nah. The U.S. is not the policeman of the world.

"America is not the world's policeman. Terrible things happen across the globe, and it is beyond our means to right every wrong." - Barack Obama

Is that some of the very pissing and moaning you just talked about?