Trump’s “Christian” supporters do not follow a central message of Jesus

[ataraxia]

I believe (James 2:14-26), and what it plainly says. Why shouldn't I?

Lees

Because you are saying you can have faith without works. It’s saying the opposite. How do you reconcile this seeming contradiction?

 

[Lees]

Clearly you are an atheist…..it is OK…..Freedom for all

I am a lot of things, but atheist is not one of them.

The Bible does not state how old the earth is. The genealogies in the Bible are not given to determine the age of the earth. (Gen. 1:1) "In the beginning" is not when Adam and Eve are created. It is when the earth was created. And when the earth was created, Satan had not yet fallen. (Job 38:4-7) "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare if thou hast understanding....When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." And by the time of Adam and Eve, Satan was already fallen.

Sons of God in the Old Testament speak to the angels, a creature individually created as opposed to being born. Point being, much time, and we don't know how much, had to take place for God's purpose in creating the earth, being played out with the angels. (Ezekiel 28:13) And the earth was very much part of Satan's rebellion. And it is from there that rebellion against God was first displayed. (Is. 14:12-15) Which in turn resulted in the jugement of God which placed the earth in a terrible condition, submerged in darkness and water. (Gen. 1:2) And we have no idea how long a period that was before God turned the light back on. (Gen. 1:3)

The earth has a long history before Adam and Eve came on the scene.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Because you are saying you can have faith without works. It’s saying the opposite. How do you reconcile this seeming contradiction?

Where did I say that? No, true faith will produce works.

That doesn't mean works produce true faith. A man without true faith in God and Christ can also do good works. An atheist can be, in mans eyes, a good man doing good things. His works mean nothing to God concerning salvation.

Lees

 

[ataraxia]

Where did I say that? No, true faith will produce works.

That doesn't mean works produce true faith. A man without true faith in God and Christ can also do good works. An atheist can be, in mans eyes, a good man doing good things. His works mean nothing to God concerning salvation.

Lees

OK. But then what does it say about their faith when someone who claims to have it says that the poor are that way because poverty is a moral failure, and they and their whole family just need to go die off until they learn their lesson?

“If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”

Whatever it is you think you have, it is clearly not faith. You clearly seem to have fallen for some false prophets there. ??The Antichrist?? How am I so sure if this? “By their fruits ye shall recognize them…”

Be careful with these false prophets.

 

[Metanoia]

The earth has a long history before Adam and Eve came on the scene.

Yes….for you literalists……7 days…….so if Adam is 6,000 years old…..the earth would be 7 days older ? According to the Bible….

 

[Revelation]

I am a lot of things, but atheist is not one of them.

amen. good way to start, lets dig deeper now...

The Bible does not state how old the earth is. The genealogies in the Bible are not given to determine the age of the earth. (Gen. 1:1) "In the beginning" is not when Adam and Eve are created. It is when the earth was created.

yep, the Gap theory; it explains a lot of what we see and helps many understand the Bible better.

yes the earth was created 'in the beginning' and not on day one.

Satan fell from heaven and had fallen to earth; he destroyed the earth and it became Void and without form.

And when the earth was created, Satan had not yet fallen. (Job 38:4-7) "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare if thou hast understanding....When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." And by the time of Adam and Eve, Satan was already fallen.

yep, a lot of christians miss this part, it took me years to put it together. most of life is that way so par for the course.

Sons of God in the Old Testament speak to the angels, a creature individually created as opposed to being born. Point being, much time, and we don't know how much, had to take place for God's purpose in creating the earth, being played out with the angels. (Ezekiel 28:13) And the earth was very much part of Satan's rebellion. And it is from there that rebellion against God was first displayed. (Is. 14:12-15) Which in turn resulted in the jugement of God which placed the earth in a terrible condition, submerged in darkness and water. (Gen. 1:2) And we have no idea how long a period that was before God turned the light back on. (Gen. 1:3)

true, christians and atheists get hung up on the age of the earth.

actually we don't know or just guess at it if you are that type. i think it is very old as scientists claim, but some recoil from that saying 6000 years and not thinking about Genesis 1 too much. and many don't care, whatever.

The earth has a long history before Adam and Eve came on the scene.

yep, fits Genesis, the bible story, science and archeology.

i don't do Gap Theory much here, as most can't handle the Basics of theology and best not to confuse them to much. regardless, in the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

we even find the Trinity in Genesis when God said Let us make man in our image. how can they miss us and our in that verse, but they do. that IS the plural Trinity God.


Genesis 1:26 (KJV):


And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

well that is the plural form of God the Jews and many Christians miss.

Lees

blessings Lees, carry on.

.

 

[Lees]

OK. But then what does it say about their faith when someone who claims to have it says that the poor are that way because poverty is a moral failure, and they and their whole family just need to go die off until they learn their lesson?

“If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”

Whatever it is you think you have, it is clearly not faith. You clearly seem to have fallen for some false prophets there. ??The Antichrist?? How am I so sure if this? “By their fruits ye shall recognize them…”

Be careful with these false prophets.

True faith will produce works. If one says he has the true faith but there is nothing, no works, then his faith cannot save him. Understand that 'save' here is not about initial salvation. It is about ones walk of salvation being delivered from the world, the flesh and the Devil. This is made clear in the two examples James gives in (James 2:21-26) Before Abraham offered Isaac, he was already saved. Before Rahab hid the spies, she was already saved.

Lees

 

[ataraxia]

True faith will produce works. If one says he has the true faith but there is nothing, no works, then his faith cannot save him. Understand that 'save' here is not about initial salvation. It is about ones walk of salvation being delivered from the world, the flesh and the Devil. This is made clear in the two examples James gives in (James 2:21-26) Before Abraham offered Isaac, he was already saved. Before Rahab hid the spies, she was already saved.

Lees

So your words and actions clearly show that whatever you think you have, it’s not faith.

 

[Lees]

Yes….for you literalists……7 days…….so if Adam is 6,000 years old…..the earth would be 7 days older ? According to the Bible….

No, we don't know how old the earth is, according to the Bible.

Lees

 

[Lees]

amen. good way to start, lets dig deeper now...



yep, the Gap theory; it explains a lot of what we see and helps many understand the Bible better.

yes the earth was created 'in the beginning' and not on day one.

Satan fell from heaven and had fallen to earth; he destroyed the earth and it became Void and without form.



yep, a lot of christians miss this part, it took me years to put it together. most of life is that way so par for the course.




true, christians and atheists get hung up on the age of the earth.

actually we don't know or just guess at it if you are that type. i think it is very old as scientists claim, but some recoil from that saying 6000 years and not thinking about Genesis 1 too much. and many don't care, whatever.




yep, fits Genesis, the bible story, science and archeology.

i don't do Gap Theory much here, as most can't handle the Basics of theology and best not to confuse them to much. regardless, in the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

we even find the Trinity in Genesis when God said Let us make man in our image. how can they miss us and our in that verse, but they do. that IS the plural Trinity God.


Genesis 1:26 (KJV):


And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

well that is the plural form of God the Jews and many Christians miss.



blessings Lees, carry on.

.

Yes, the Gap Theory does explain a lot. Many Christians attack it because they thought/think it was/is compromising with science, but it doesn't.

Lees

 

[Lees]

So your words and actions clearly show that whatever you think you have, it’s not faith.

You certainly can have your opinion. I am quite willing to let Jesus have the say in that matter.

Lees

 

[Revelation]

Yes, the Gap Theory does explain a lot. Many Christians attack it because they thought/think it was/is compromising with science, but it doesn't.

it does.

i have been on both sides of the fence and understand the Dilemma. if someone is Young Earth, that is fine with me, they believe Genesis and have a fair grasp on what is says. my attitude: carry on and have a great day.

however if you are Gap Theory, then i see you as more of a Realist and want accuracy in how you think. many people are like this and it takes time for figure a lot of things out.

i wish it wasn't this way, but all of Life seems to flow that way.

other things i encourage sheep to look at is ante-Nicene church history and arminian theology. both are locked in together.

the early church taught holiness as a Doctrine, but christians have gotten away from it. when dealing with Calvinists, i inquire if they understand that Calvinism was developed in the 1500's. how did the church miss that Doctrine for 1500 years if it was true.

well they don't know.


with that i try to encourage them to read, 'Life in the Son' by Shank written on a Seminary level regarding the most important doctrine of the christian faith. well people don't like to read, so that generally ends any doctrinal learning of any kind. so back to shallow christianity we go.


blessings Lee

Lees

 

[Metanoia]

(Hebrews 1:3) "...when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"



(Acts 7:56) " And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

So I take it that you believe God has a physical body ?

 

[Daisy]

 

[Daisy]

Interesting.

Without a doubt, this is the first time I've ever seen or heard of any Christian of any Christian group refer to Jesus Christ as being a "lowly" Son of God in any context , who according to biblical scripture was sent to "earth" to share God's truth and then subsequently and willingly give his life to save Jehovah's human creations. from his/her "earthly" sins.

So, you admit you don't know the Bible...got it...

"No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake." Philippians 2:7

 

[Metanoia]

Yes, the Gap Theory does explain a lot. Many Christians attack it because they thought/think it was/is compromising with science, but it doesn't.

Lees

This is just too funny……you accuse people of being atheists if they challenge the absolute veracity of the Bible but now are willing to accommodate alternate truths ? The Bible tells us that it is 6,000 years plus 7 days…..true fundamentals do not have the freedom to think…..they would call it a lack of faith…..essentially you believe in a limited God…..in this case limited by a time frame…..and still waiting to hear if you believe in a physical or a spiritual God……

 

[Logician Man]

Daisy said:
keep in mind this is not speaking of the lowly Jesus who lived on earth





Logician Man said:
Interesting.

Without a doubt, this is the first time I've ever seen or heard of any Christian of any Christian group refer to Jesus Christ as being a "lowly" Son of God in any context , who according to biblical scripture was sent to "earth" to share God's truth and then subsequently and willingly give his life to save Jehovah's human creations. from his/her "earthly" sins.

So, you admit you don't know the Bible...

I admit no such thing @Daisy and my challenge to you is to present any/all bible verses in which the term being "lowly" (your choice of words) is attributed to Jesus Christ who you have professed to be a "Mighty God."

The floor is yours.

 

[Lees]

So I take it that you believe God has a physical body ?

The God Man, Jesus, the Second Person of the Godhead, certainly does. So yes, God the Son took on a physical Body and will forever have it.

Lees

 

[Metanoia]

Fundamentalists have the additional problem of trying to understand and explain the two creation stories……why 2 versions ? “Oh what a tangled web we weave”…….

 

[Metanoia]

The God Man, Jesus, the Second Person of the Godhead, certainly does. So yes, God the Son took on a physical Body and will forever have it.

Lees

I was not asking about Jesus……but you have previously said that Jesus was sitting ON the right hand of God…..so that sounds like a physical body…..

 

[Lees]

This is just too funny……you accuse people of being atheists if they challenge the absolute veracity of the Bible but now are willing to accommodate alternate truths ? The Bible tells us that it is 6,000 years plus 7 days…..true fundamentals do not have the freedom to think…..they would call it a lack of faith…..essentially you believe in a limited God…..in this case limited by a time frame…..and still waiting to hear if you believe in a physical or a spiritual God……

If one doesn't believe the Bible, then yes I would call them atheist. At least as far as Christianity is concerned. The Gap Theory is not 'alternate truth'. It is true as described in the Bible. And I believe it because it is in the Bible. No where in the Bible does God show how old the earth is.

As to the exact date when the earth and heaven was created we are only told "In the beginning".

The genealogies in the Bible, may, give some indication as to how long man has been on the earth. But even there we can't know for sure. For, God at times removes people out of the genealogical record for his own purpose. And if He leaves out very many in the record before the flood, that could affect the count drastically. Because people then could live up to almost 1000 years.

God is Spirit. God the Father is Spirit. God the Son is both Spirit and Physical, The God Man. God the Holy Spirit is Spirit.

Why do I believe in a 'limited God'?

Lees

 

[Daisy]

Daisy said:
keep in mind this is not speaking of the lowly Jesus who lived on earth





Logician Man said:
Interesting.

Without a doubt, this is the first time I've ever seen or heard of any Christian of any Christian group refer to Jesus Christ as being a "lowly" Son of God in any context , who according to biblical scripture was sent to "earth" to share God's truth and then subsequently and willingly give his life to save Jehovah's human creations. from his/her "earthly" sins.





I admit no such thing @Daisy and my challenge to you is to present any/all bible verses in which the term being "lowly" (your choice of words) is attributed to Jesus Christ who you have professed to be a "Mighty God."

The floor is yours.

lol...I just did...nothing lower than a slave...but I knew you wouldn't understand it...

 

[Lees]

I was not asking about Jesus……but you have previously said that Jesus was sitting ON the right hand of God…..so that sounds like a physical body…..

Well, the Son is as much God as the Father and the Holy Spirit. It is what Paul said in (Heb. 1:3). If the Father has a throne, which He does, then He sits also. Doesn't He?

Lees

 

[Daisy]

Fundamentalists have the additional problem of trying to understand and explain the two creation stories……why 2 versions ? “Oh what a tangled web we weave”…….

The 1st is pertaining to preparing the earth for life...the 2nd is pertaining to the 1st human couple...same account...2 different perspectives...

 

[Logician Man]

nothing lower than a slave...

Daisy said:


Although slavery also existed in ancient Israel, the Mosaic Law ensured that Hebrew slaves received protection.