Treaty of Versailles (1 Viewer)

[Bodi]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

 

[Felis Leo]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

Indeed. And it was no more harsh than the Carthaginian peace that Germany imposed on France in 1870 along with forcing France to pay war indemnity to Prussia. Or for that matter the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that Germany imposed on the Russians in 1917 carving up their Empire into more digestible bite-sized chunks so that they could have control over Ukraine and its grain.

 

[Loulit01]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

What you say is true. On the other hand, the U.S. rebuilt the German and Japanese economies after WWII, turning previously warlike nations into peaceful allies and trade partners. The Marshall Plan was a direct result of the failure of the Treaty of Versailles, which while not solely responsible for the war, did lay a fertile groundwork for it. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk wasn't in effect long enough for anything to come, or not come, of it. Also, it was signed directly after the Bolshevik Revolution so I'm not sure it's an apt analogy.

 

[PoS]

The treaty was not THE SOLE reason, but one of many reasons as to why Germany started fighting again.

 

[Peter King]

The treaty was not THE SOLE reason, but one of many reasons as to why Germany started fighting again.

It was part of it but so was the economic crisis in the US after 1929. Germany was thriving in the roaring twenties. If the US stock market had not bottomed out, there might never have been a war. Because of Germany going into a depression gave Hitler the chance to get into power.

It all started with a lie, the German military knew it was loosing in WW1, they asked the new Weimar government to make a deal with the allies. Without the moderating power of Wilson the English and French made way too harsh demands on Germany. But as the military had thrown in the towel, the Weimar politicians had no choice but to agree.

After the deal was struck the military claimed they could have fought on and won, thus came the dagger in the back fantasy on the right. The brave German could have won according to the generals if not for the weak political leaders. This lead to fascist like former soldier groups, especially in Bavaria. And when the economic crisis after 1929 struck, those fascists/nazi's got to work to stoke the unrest so that they could take over.

 

[Tigerace117]

The treaty was not THE SOLE reason, but one of many reasons as to why Germany started fighting again.

On the other hand, the Treaty was massively more lenient than the treaties Germany imposed or planned to impose on its defeated foes.

 

[code1211]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

The Treaty of Versailles helped to impoverish the Germans for years and undermine their currency.

It probably was not the exclusive cause of the Second World War, but it helped.

 

[PoS]

It was part of it but so was the economic crisis in the US after 1929. Germany was thriving in the roaring twenties. If the US stock market had not bottomed out, there might never have been a war. Because of Germany going into a depression gave Hitler the chance to get into power.

It all started with a lie, the German military knew it was loosing in WW1, they asked the new Weimar government to make a deal with the allies. Without the moderating power of Wilson the English and French made way too harsh demands on Germany. But as the military had thrown in the towel, the Weimar politicians had no choice but to agree.

After the deal was struck the military claimed they could have fought on and won, thus came the dagger in the back fantasy on the right. The brave German could have won according to the generals if not for the weak political leaders. This lead to fascist like former soldier groups, especially in Bavaria. And when the economic crisis after 1929 struck, those fascists/nazi's got to work to stoke the unrest so that they could take over.

I agree, but the reason why Germany was really hit hard by the Great Depression is because they took out loans to cover their war reparations because of the treaty. The Nazis were voted into power because a lot of Germans resented the treaty.

 

[Peter King]

I agree, but the reason why Germany was really hit hard by the Great Depression is because they took out loans to cover their war reparations because of the treaty. The Nazis were voted into power because a lot of Germans resented the treaty.

Well, sadly that was because of the US. Wilson was forced to withdraw from international politics (back to isolationism) and was not a party in negotiating the treaty with Germany. So the English and French saw that as an opportunity to get their pound of flesh from the Germans and punish them horrendously for the war. With the US loans the economy was ticking over nicely, even if the right wing conservatives hated the new reality in Germany and the Nazi's got themselves jailed for starting a revolution in Munich.

And when the money dried up from the US and all the loans were called in and that just ended the German roaring twenties and it started the darkness that lasted for about 15 years.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

After the Treaty of Versailles Ferdinand Foch said 'This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years'.

Foch must have seen something in the Treaty and lead him to say this.. He was only off by a couple of months..

 

[Loulit01]

It was part of it but so was the economic crisis in the US after 1929. Germany was thriving in the roaring twenties. If the US stock market had not bottomed out, there might never have been a war. Because of Germany going into a depression gave Hitler the chance to get into power.

Germany was thriving in the roaring 20s? On what planet? Here on earth Germany was a disaster in the 1920s.

What was Germany like in 1920s?​

The 1920s were a difficult and unstable time for Germany. As well as having to come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles’ punishments, it was a time of invasion, economic decline, putsches (rebellions) but also a huge growth in cultural freedoms and political rights.

What was Germany like in 1920s?

What was Germany like in 1920s? The 1920s were a difficult and unstable time for Germany. As well as having to come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles’ punishments, it was a time of invasion, economic decline, putsches (rebellions) but also a huge growth in cultural freedoms and political...

colors-newyork.com

Nonsense like this is why I have a hard time taking this forum seriously. I try, but too few bother to research before posting. Too many unsupported opinions stated as facts and insults posing as arguments.

 

[NewfieMom]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

This sounds like a strawman to me. Responsible historians properly write about the effects of the war reparations on Germany. They do not state that those reparations forced Germany to start World War II. Saying that they do is a good way to get people to respond to you in a new thread, however. As I said, you set up a a strawman. You have your thread now.

 

[Peter King]

Germany was thriving in the roaring 20s? On what planet? Here on earth Germany was a disaster in the 1920s.

What was Germany like in 1920s?​

The 1920s were a difficult and unstable time for Germany. As well as having to come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles’ punishments, it was a time of invasion, economic decline, putsches (rebellions) but also a huge growth in cultural freedoms and political rights.

What was Germany like in 1920s?

What was Germany like in 1920s? The 1920s were a difficult and unstable time for Germany. As well as having to come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles’ punishments, it was a time of invasion, economic decline, putsches (rebellions) but also a huge growth in cultural freedoms and political...

colors-newyork.com

Nonsense like this is why I have a hard time taking this forum seriously. I try, but too few bother to research before posting. Too many unsupported opinions stated as facts and insults posing as arguments.

The Golden Twenties, also known as the Happy Twenties (German: Glückliche Zwanziger Jahre), is a short five-year time period within the decade of the 1920s in Germany. The era began in 1924 after the end of the hyperinflation following on World War I and ended with the Wall Street Crash of 1929.

The German term (Goldene Zwanziger Jahre) is often applied to that country's experience of healthy economic growth, expansion of liberal values in society and spurt in experimental and creative efforts in the field of art.

https://en.wikipehs ydia.org/wiki/Golden_Twenties

If you have no knowledge of the interbellum then don't make such silly remarks as "I cannot take this forum seriously. If you had researched this you would have found that Germany from 1924 until the stock market crash was doing very well, so much that the Germans called it the golden twenties. And the only insult I see at this moment is yours regarding my comments. Comments I knew were factual as I have had the luck of 5 years of study of the interbellum/second world war.

 

[Bodi]

This sounds like a strawman to me. Responsible historians properly write about the effects of the war reparations on Germany. They do not state that those reparations forced Germany to start World War II. Saying that they do is a good way to get people to respond to you in a new thread, however. As I said, you set up a a strawman. You have your thread now.

long before the depression, and years before Hitler came to power, there were two groups of Germans who were determined not to accept Germany's defeat in the first World War as final.

What Caused Germany to Start Another War? | AHA

www.historians.org

The Versailles Treaty made World War II possible
https://www.history.com/news/treaty-of-versailles-world-war-ii-german-guilt-effects

 

[code1211]

I agree, but the reason why Germany was really hit hard by the Great Depression is because they took out loans to cover their war reparations because of the treaty. The Nazis were voted into power because a lot of Germans resented the treaty.

I was impressed because one of hitlers campaign promises was pretty simple. Elect him and he promised that people would eat. Germans were literally starving in the streets.

Hitler was elected. Wagons roamed the streets giving out bread to anyone who asked for it.

All in all, at least in that promise, he was not as dishonest and deceitful as the average run of the mill American politician.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

I was impressed because one of hitlers campaign promises was pretty simple. Elect him and he promised that people would eat. Germans were literally starving in the streets.

Hitler was elected. Wagons roamed the streets giving out bread to anyone who asked for it.

All in all, at least in that promise, he was not as dishonest and deceitful as the average run of the mill American politician.

Dont want to nit pick.. But Hitler wasn't elected... The Nazis never had a majority of votes..

But admittedly it is complicated..Anyway They never got 50% of the vote..

 

[code1211]

Dont want to nit pick.. But Hitler wasn't elected... The Nazis never had a majority of votes..

But admittedly it is complicated..Anyway They never got 50% of the vote..

Sounds a little like our "Speaker of the House" in the US. Not an elected position, but still number 3 in the order of succession to the Presidency.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[j brown's body]

Dont want to nit pick.. But Hitler wasn't elected... The Nazis never had a majority of votes..

But admittedly it is complicated..Anyway They never got 50% of the vote..

Neither did Trump. But he got elected.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Neither did Trump. But he got elected.

Hitler was appointed as chancellor by President Paul Von Hindenburg... Trump, and other US presidents who didn't get 50% of the vote were elected...

 

[j brown's body]

I was impressed because one of hitlers campaign promises was pretty simple. Elect him and he promised that people would eat. Germans were literally starving in the streets.

Hitler was elected. Wagons roamed the streets giving out bread to anyone who asked for it.

All in all, at least in that promise, he was not as dishonest and deceitful as the average run of the mill American politician.

People were starving here too, but we didn't elect a racist demagogue until 2016 when virtually no one was starving.

 

[j brown's body]

Hitler was appointed as chancellor by President Paul Von Hindenburg... Trump, and other US presidents who didn't get 50% of the vote were elected...

He was also elected president.

One could argue that Trump was not elected, certainly not elected by the people, but appointed by the electoral college based on the way the votes are processed.

 

[j brown's body]

Indeed. And it was no more harsh than the Carthaginian peace that Germany imposed on France in 1870 along with forcing France to pay war indemnity to Prussia. Or for that matter the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that Germany imposed on the Russians in 1917 carving up their Empire into more digestible bite-sized chunks so that they could have control over Ukraine and its grain.

It was a handy whipping boy for a demagogue willing to exploit it. The debt on top of the Great Depression helped him. Along with an treaty considered unfair, there was the threat of outsiders, a swamp of elites, fake news and a lost way of life to exploit (sound familiar?).

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

He was also elected president.

One could argue that Trump was not elected, certainly not elected by the people, but appointed by the electoral college based on the way the votes are processed.

I'm not sure what you're saying anymore... Obviously there's are differences between the our system and the European election systems..

Hitler wasn't elected... He was appointed..

 

[Antiwar]

The treaty was not THE SOLE reason, but one of many reasons as to why Germany started fighting again.

It's something to see when your commentary is more nuanced than the binary illogic presented, which is probably based on a straw man argument, which is very likely absurd reductionism.

 

[code1211]

People were starving here too, but we didn't elect a racist demagogue until 2016 when virtually no one was starving.

I don't understand your thought process on this post.

You seem to hate Trump. Is that why there is no logic or cogent thinking in your thought?