Treaty of Versailles

[Rich2018]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

This is because the punitive measures that the Germans were forced to accept at Versailles, lead directly to WWII.

They were responsible for the failure of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Nazism

As French General Ferdinand Foch remarked in 1919:

"This is not peace. It is an armistice for twenty years"

He was spot on. WWII started in 1939.

 

[Bodi]

This is because the punitive measures that the Germans were forced to accept at Versailles, lead directly to WWII.

They were responsible for the failure of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Nazism

As French General Ferdinand Foch remarked in 1919:

"This is not peace. It is an armistice for twenty years"

He was spot on. WWII started in 1939.

There are a lot of poor nations out there not starting world wars...

Germany being forced to accept Versailles does not mean Germany was forced to start a war.

 

[code1211]

There are a lot of poor nations out there not starting world wars...

Germany being forced to accept Versailles does not mean Germany was forced to start a war.

What you say here seems to be true on its face.

Despite this, though, there are many historians who have written that WW2 was, among other things, a continuation of WW1.

They also cite the Treaty of Versailles as one of the contributing factors for the continuation.

 

[Bodi]

What you say here seems to be true on its face.

Despite this, though, there are many historians who have written that WW2 was, among other things, a continuation of WW1.

They also cite the Treaty of Versailles as one of the contributing factors for the continuation.

I totally agree with that. I am simply saying that it was Germany's CHOICE to engage in another, or continuation, war.

They were not forced by the Treaty.

 

[bomberfox]

I often laugh at those that say that the Treaty of Versailles "forced" or "was responsible" for Germany rearming and starting WWII.

LOL

Germany CHOSE to start another war. The idea that Germans, who started World War 1, killing millions of civilians, would turn around and whine like idiots that they were blamed for the war that they started and used that as justification to start ANOTHER ****ING WAR has always astounded me.

I think when people try to figure out why Germany went for such a monster they go for that as a motivation that contributed to his rise.

 

[Bodi]

I think when people try to figure out why Germany went for such a monster they go for that as a motivation that contributed to his rise.

That could be. Never thought of the psychology angle. Interesting way to look at it.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

The Germans were in wars every 30 years or so for years..

IMO it's really not hard to believe they would look for reasons to get into another war...

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

This is just my opinion... And I expect to take shit for it... Lol

But imo if the Americans took their toys and went home after WW2 there might not be a Germany now.. Or at least it would be a lot smaller than it is now..

After WW2 France, Russia, Poland, the Chechs, Belgium, etc. were tried of Germany starting wars every generation.. Without the American army there the Europeans might of said F it, and craved up Germany...

 

[code1211]

I totally agree with that. I am simply saying that it was Germany's CHOICE to engage in another, or continuation, war.

They were not forced by the Treaty.

True.

About the only good thing that rose from Nazism was the dance number in "The Producers" from "Springtime for Hitler".

 

[Bodi]

True.

About the only good thing that rose from Nazism was the dance number in "The Producers" from "Springtime for Hitler".

And Charlie Chaplin doing that dance with the balloon world.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Well, sadly that was because of the US. Wilson was forced to withdraw from international politics (back to isolationism) and was not a party in negotiating the treaty with Germany. So the English and French saw that as an opportunity to get their pound of flesh from the Germans and punish them horrendously for the war. With the US loans the economy was ticking over nicely, even if the right wing conservatives hated the new reality in Germany and the Nazi's got themselves jailed for starting a revolution in Munich.

And when the money dried up from the US and all the loans were called in and that just ended the German roaring twenties and it started the darkness that lasted for about 15 years.

I think you are mixing up some facts around Wilson and the Paris Peace Conference where the Treaty was negotiated. Wilson was in Paris and did participate in the negotiation. Wilson also presented the Treaty to the US Senate for ratification and it was voted down. Senator Henry Cabot Lodge, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said this of Wilson: "He terms Wilson’s decision to go to Paris and negotiate the treaty himself “a serious mistake.” Link

 

[Peter King]

I think you are mixing up some facts around Wilson and the Paris Peace Conference where the Treaty was negotiated. Wilson was in Paris and did participate in the negotiation. Wilson also presented the Treaty to the US Senate for ratification and it was voted down. Senator Henry Cabot Lodge, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said this of Wilson: "He terms Wilson’s decision to go to Paris and negotiate the treaty himself “a serious mistake.” Link

The US rejected the peace treaty. And Wilson was not successful in preventing France and Britain from taking revenge on Germany and punishing them with land loss, disarming and huge reparation payments to the allies. So while he may have been there, the treaty did not entail much of the 14 points he wanted to implement. The powers that be in Washington wanted to wash their hands of Europe and wanted back into isolationism.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

The US rejected the peace treaty. And Wilson was not successful in preventing France and Britain from taking revenge on Germany and punishing them with land loss, disarming and huge reparation payments to the allies. So while he may have been there, the treaty did not entail much of the 14 points he wanted to implement. The powers that be in Washington wanted to wash their hands of Europe and wanted back into isolationism.

I'm not clear how you see the land loss differences between 1919 and 1870, Franco-Prussian war. France was forced to pay and give up land, seems like it was a European tradition which to some degree the US was prudent to want to step away from--perhaps not as far as they did, but that, as they say, is history.

In reviewing the 14 points, a good deal of came into place, even if not immediately. Seems like when Wilson got ill with the Spanish flu, Clemenceau did take liberties to add more punitive terms. Which of the points do you see as not being incorporated into the Treaty of Versailles?