Tired of pretending. Liberal Vs Progressive

[JohnnyDollar]

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to under the HUGE difference between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa.
I have the general idea about their differences. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whicko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision. Where are progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to under the HUGE difference between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa.
I have the general idea about their differences. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whicko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision. Where are progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.

Obama isn't a liberal.

But some of your other points I can agree with, I was a Republican for 30 plus years, then around 2010 I saw there was absolutely NOTHING conservative about the Republican Party anymore. All that mattered to them was getting in power, staying in power and giving tax breaks to their rich donors. So as a working man, I left. Or to paraphrase Reagan, the GOP left me..

They were once the party of the working man, but by 2010 they didn't give a rats ass about the millions of working people who were losing their jobs and homes. It was all about tax breaks for their rich friends. And blaming the working people for the crash, they refused to blame their rich Wall Street friends.

BTW you are generalizing too much about liberals, I know plenty, who like true cons wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire, wouldn't piss on Sanders if he was on fire either.. And that is the problem with some of your argument, Sanders didn't even come close to being the Dem nominee.. Trump was the GOP nominee and was elected president AND has completely taken over the Republican Party. So which party has moved further from the middle? Which party has 'pushed' the extremists out?

 

[element94]

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to under the HUGE difference between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa.
I have the general idea about their differences. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whicko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision. Where are progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.

Both sides have to deal with fringe extremists. I wouldn't vote for some of the lunacy. I'm more concerned that what's left of the Republican party is all lunatics.

 

[ecofarm]

I've heard of 'wall of text'. OP is a wall of garbage.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Obama isn't a liberal.

But some of your other points I can agree with, I was a Republican for 30 plus years, then around 2010 I saw there was absolutely NOTHING conservative about the Republican Party anymore. All that mattered to them was getting in power, staying in power and giving tax breaks to their rich donors. So as a working man, I left. Or to paraphrase Reagan, the GOP left me..

You and I came to light about the same time. My eye opening came after the Tea Party of 07 became popular and started getting some much needed support. We were finally showing the American people why the GOP just wasn't conservative anymore. But then, it was infiltrated by the GOP, and it all when to hell in a hand basket them. I blame the MSM mainly for that. They actually linked people like Sarah Palin to the Tea Party. And then John McCain.

Ron Paul, is who I learned the difference. And the GOP fought him tooth and nail to keep from getting the nomination. The party and the media did everything they could do to discredit him.

They were once the party of the working man, but by 2010 they didn't give a rats ass about the millions of working people who were losing their jobs and homes. It was all about tax breaks for their rich friends.

I was taught growing up that the democrats were the party of the working class. This is why they were in favor of border walls, fences and stricter immigration polities. Because keeping the illegals out, helped to protect the American working class. Many of the things Trump was in favor of, like a better trade deal with China, was something that liberals, 30 years ago, would've been fighting with Trump to do. Not fighting against him.

BTW you are generalizing too much about liberals, I know plenty, who like true cons wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire, wouldn't piss on Sanders if he was on fire either.. And that is the problem with some of your argument, Sanders didn't even come close to being the Dem nominee.. Trump was the GOP nominee and was elected president AND has completely taken over the Republican Party. So which party has moved further from the middle? Which party has 'pushed' the extremists out?

In 2016, the DNC rigged the nomination to keep Sanders from beating Clinton. I didn't care for either one of those two. BUT lying and cheating someone, regardless of who's side you're on, is just wrong. Again, the MSM played a HUGE part in that. Just like the part they played to keep Tulsi Gabbards from getting any attention. I didn't care much for Tulsi. I could've voted for her over Trump. But be dayumed if I was going to vote for Biden. IMO, he's owned and operated by the establishment and the Party leadership.
Biden, you could call him both a progressive and a liberal, because he blows with the wind.

Sad part about being an old fashion conservative and an old fashioned liberal, we don't get much say so anymore in what we think. The progressives and the die hard republicans are too busy arguing and fighting over nonsense to get a word in. And if you don't just go along, then even your own party will throw you under the bus.
JFK & Barry Goldwater wouldn't last two years in this political climate.

 

[NatMorton]

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to under the HUGE difference between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa.
I have the general idea about their differences. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whicko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision. Where are progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.

Great OP.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Both sides have to deal with fringe extremists. I wouldn't vote for some of the lunacy. I'm more concerned that what's left of the Republican party is all lunatics.

They're not as different from the progressives as you might think. I know the talking points and the rhetoric that's out there now. But behind closed door, Pelosi and Trump were a lot closer than they'll admit in public. Trump gave Pelosi almost everything she wanted. Including a HUGE amount of spending.
Bump stock ban, funding for planned parenthood, funding for "gender studies in Pakistan."<< Or some crazy BS like that.

You know, liberals used to honor the 2nd Amendment. When Liberals would talk about gun violence, their message was to keep it out of the hands of the bad people. Todays progressives, seem like they wan to take gun from the average Joe's, who aren't out to hurt anyone with their guns. They use to bash violent druggies like George Floyd. They used to stand up for the victims of people like that, moreso than the people like that. Today's progressives will make people like George Floyd into martyrs.
And on just about every issue we discuss today, the liberals have been silenced by progressives. Many liberals claim they've had to "evolve." But the fact of the matter is, many of them just had to sit down and shut up, because the progressives were running the show.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Great OP.

Thanks.
I forgot to proof read it. And now it's too late to correct the spelling.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

You and I came to light about the same time. My eye opening came after the Tea Party of 07 became popular and started getting some much needed support. We were finally showing the American people why the GOP just wasn't conservative anymore. But then, it was infiltrated by the GOP, and it all when to hell in a hand basket them.

Ron Paul, is who I learned the difference. And the GOP fought him tooth and nail to keep from getting the nomination. The party and the media did everything they could do to discredit him.


I was taught growing up that the democrats were the party of the working class. This is why they were in favor of border walls, fences and stricter immigration polities. Because keeping the illegals out, helped to protect the American working class. Many of the things Trump was in favor of, like a better trade deal with China, was something that liberals, 30 years ago, would've been fighting with Trump to do. Not fighting against him.


In 2016, the DNC rigged the nomination to keep Sanders from beating Clinton. I didn't care for either one of those two. BUT lying and cheating someone, regardless of who's side you're on, is just wrong. Again, the MSM played a HUGE part in that. Just like the part they played to keep Tulsi Gabbards from getting any attention. I didn't care much for Tulsi. I could've voted for her over Trump. But be dayumed if I was going to vote for Biden. IMO, he's owned and operated by the establishment and the Party leadership.
Biden, you could call him both a progressive and a liberal, because he blows with the wind.

Sad part about being an old fashion conservative and an old fashioned liberal, we don't get much say so anymore in what we think. The progressives and the die hard republicans are too busy arguing and fighting over nonsense to get a word in. And if you don't just go along, then even your own party will throw you under the bus.
JFK & Barry Goldwater wouldn't last two years in this political climate.

Trump used the immigration issue as a wedge, nothing more. His businesses and business practices prove he didn't care how many immigrants came across the border. I live in NY, and know, and have known many people who worked for him. He made a living out screwing people(the little guy) who worked for him.. And he hired MANY illegals...

JFK & Barry Goldwater wouldn't last two years in this political climate.

Very true.. As an old time Republican and conservative I hate to say this but I doubt Reagan would last in today's Trump run Republican Party. He'd be seen as too moderate.. Remember when he actually talked to and worked with the Dems in Congress?? Blasphemy. lol

I blame the MSM mainly for that. They actually linked people like Sarah Palin to the Tea Party. And then John McCain.

Don't blame the MSM for everything... Palin deserved a lot of the abuse she got, she brought a lot of the bad press on herself...

 

[NatMorton]

Thanks.
I forgot to proof read it. And now it's too late to correct the spelling.

It's the thought that counts

 

[JohnnyDollar]

The corrected version:

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to learn the HUGE differences between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa. But not much anymore. Since the MSM fails to make note of the difference, the two get lumped into the same column. Just like they do conservatives. I can't tell you how many times I've heard hannity or maddow call McConnell a conservative.
I have the general idea about their difference of liberal and progressive. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whacko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision based on their own way of thinking. And not how they're supposed to think. Whereas progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.

 

[Visbek]

sigh

Well, the terminology is scrambled by decades of misuse. "Liberal" should not mean "leftists," it should mean someone who advocates "liberalism," which emphasizes individual liberties and freedom from a restrictive government. In the 50s through the 80s, that was mostly but not exclusively associated with leftists, who wanted to relax a lot of cultural norms -- e.g. restrictions on sex, divorce, drug use, rock music and so on.

After decades of leftists pushing for and fervently defending freedom of speech, things started to change. The Internet democratized speech. Americans started to accept that bigotry was actually an issue. The harms of truly unfettered speech became obvious (*cough* 4chan). Leftists started to realize that totally unregulated speech had negative consequences, so they pulled back on the "liberalism."

(On a side note, there's a big illiberal streak in conservatism today. This was most directly articulated by Sohrab Amari in 2019 with his "Against David French-ism" article, and is obvious at recent CPACs.)

"Progressivism" is not the same thing as "liberalism." It's a general belief in change that improves society. In the early 20th century, this applied to Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt or Democrats like Woodrow Wilson. AFAIK it swung more to the left in the late 50s and 60s, in part because of the Great Partisan Sorting that was just beginning, and in part because of the rise of conservatism.

"Leftism" isn't the same thing as either "liberalism" or "progressivism." Leftist politics focus on socioeconomic and political equality, and often a flattening of power hierarchies. It's a broad term.

(Perhaps we'd date modern "conservatism" to the founding of the National Review, whose stated goal was to "stand athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.")

Progressivism today is usually seen as a subset of leftism -- but again, that doesn't have to be the case. That seems to have happened because conservatives abandoned the idea that progress, or social change in any new direction, is beneficial.

Neither "liberal" or "progressive" is an indicator of the depth of commitment to a position. You don't need to be an extreme libertarian to qualify as a liberal; you don't have to be an anarchist to be a progressive.

The idea that "progressive" is identical with "dogmatic" makes no sense, especially in an era of Republican and conservative dogmatism.

The Democratic Party has had both a centrist and a left-leaning wing for a loooong time. A lot of attitudes of younger people today are a direct result of progressives and leftists pushing society to improve, to be more egalitarian, to respect the rights of all people regardless of color or gender or sexual orientation. Younger people are also generally further to the left than older people. So I don't know which "young liberals" you're talking to....

Oh, and we've only had two Democratic Presidential candidates since Obama. I don't see Clinton or Biden being all that much less liberal than Obama, nor is that a terribly long period of time.

 

[The Old Soul]

Some (most) of us are an amalgam of various political 'leans,' and could be labeled may different things depending on the topic. It seems as though those who do insist on labeling and branding everyone are the extreme.

Picking sides, parties, or labels is destructive - one look at our current Divided States of America is proof positive.

 

[Monica33]

Justice Democrats are a very dangerous CIA backed group with rich girl AOC as a puppet .

The Justice Democrats intend to takeover the Democrat Party by ‘primarying’ out establishment Democrats and replacing them with hundreds of radical socialist puppets. The Justice Democrats, backers of the Green New Deal and open borders, intend to take over the Democrat Party, Congress and then the entire United States.
Seven candidates endorsed by the Justice Democrats were elected to Congress in the 2018 interim elections. Two former Bernie Sanders strategists and Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks appear to be pulling the strings, but it is unclear who is funding the enterprise. Zack Exley, a key player in the Justice Democrats, was a fellow at George Soros’ Open Borders Foundation.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Trump used the immigration issue as a wedge, nothing more. His businesses and business practices prove he didn't care how many immigrants came across the border. I live in NY, and know, and have known many people who worked for him. He made a living out screwing people(the little guy) who worked for him.. And he hired MANY illegals...

You'll get no argument from me about how bad Trump is and how bad he used to be. NYC real estate is a tough business. You almost have to be crooked to do that up there. Hell, the agent I used to sell my last house, had a few tricks up his sleeve.

Very true.. As an old time Republican and conservative I hate to say this but I doubt Reagan would last in today's Trump run Republican Party. He'd be seen as too moderate.. Remember when he actually talked to and worked with the Dems in Congress?? Blasphemy. lol

Reagan, IMO was no conservative. The ONLY thing conservative about Reagan was his speeches. His spending habit proves he was no conservative. He, along with the democrats, increased the debt ceiling like 17 times. We got one tax reduction and 4 tax increases. When it came to immigration, he was pretty conservative. He gave amnesty to over 3 million illegals. Something the left would praise him for today, had he not been a republican.
BTW, funny thing about that. With all the progressive things that Trump did, like the "wall," spending, bump stock ban, Planned Parenthood funding (etc etc etc), you'd think the left would praise him a little. But because of the progressive agenda, they're not allowed to praise anyone on the right. Even when he does something they would've done themselves.

Don't blame the MSM for everything... Palin deserved a lot of the abuse she got, she brought a lot of the bad press on herself...

Palin was a nice lady. And maybe a decent governor. But she was not qualified for national politics. And she damn sure wasn't anything us original Tea Party (07) supporters wanted.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Some (most) of us are an amalgam of various political 'leans,' and could be labeled may different things depending on the topic. It seems as though those who do insist on labeling and branding everyone are the extreme.

Picking sides, parties, or labels is destructive - one look at our current Divided States of America is proof positive.

I don't see any way around it. But then again, you may be right. Old fashion liberals seem to have just stopped caring about their labels, and allowed others to label them. At this point, I'll stand right up and tell anyone, "I'm not a republican." But maybe after a few more years, I won't even care. I'll get tired of arguing conservatism with republicans.
Maybe that's what's happened to the liberals. What's the old saying, "If you can't beat'm, Join'm."

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Justice Democrats are a very dangerous CIA backed group with rich girl AOC as a puppet .

The Justice Democrats intend to takeover the Democrat Party by ‘primarying’ out establishment Democrats and replacing them with hundreds of radical socialist puppets. The Justice Democrats, backers of the Green New Deal and open borders, intend to take over the Democrat Party, Congress and then the entire United States.
Seven candidates endorsed by the Justice Democrats were elected to Congress in the 2018 interim elections. Two former Bernie Sanders strategists and Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks appear to be pulling the strings, but it is unclear who is funding the enterprise. Zack Exley, a key player in the Justice Democrats, was a fellow at George Soros’ Open Borders Foundation.

I see what you're saying. But I think Eisenhower was right about lobbyist groups like the military industrial complex has in their pockets. IMO, it's the lobbyist and powerful special interest that run our government. And almost every elected official is a puppet. Or will be soon. If they're not, even their own party will force them out.
Tulsi Gabbard is a GREAT example.

 

[Buckeyes85]

This thread is comical.
Reagan made a concerted effort to use the term "liberal" as a pejorative, the most extreme left you could get. And much in the way that so many on the right like to do with bastardizing the meaning of words for political purposes, it stuck and continued for decades. The mere use of the term "liberal" was to imply neo marxist mentality.

Much as a result of that those left of center, those pushing for "progress" began more often using the term progressive. Which of course again means nothing more than a focus on progress.

Now the OP opines that "progressive" means ultra liberal, neo marxist and plain "liberals" are hard to find.

Like I said, simply comical. Bastardize the meaning of a word and then attempt to bastardize the meaning of the word people use to avoid the first bastardization.

 

[element94]

They're not as different from the progressives as you might think. I know the talking points and the rhetoric that's out there now. But behind closed door, Pelosi and Trump were a lot closer than they'll admit in public. Trump gave Pelosi almost everything she wanted. Including a HUGE amount of spending.
Bump stock ban, funding for planned parenthood, funding for "gender studies in Pakistan."<< Or some crazy BS like that.

You know, liberals used to honor the 2nd Amendment. When Liberals would talk about gun violence, their message was to keep it out of the hands of the bad people. Todays progressives, seem like they wan to take gun from the average Joe's, who aren't out to hurt anyone with their guns. They use to bash violent druggies like George Floyd. They used to stand up for the victims of people like that, moreso than the people like that. Today's progressives will make people like George Floyd into martyrs.
And on just about every issue we discuss today, the liberals have been silenced by progressives. Many liberals claim they've had to "evolve." But the fact of the matter is, many of them just had to sit down and shut up, because the progressives were running the show.

I may be the wrong one to debate about the 2nd Amendment since I'm a gun owner, but I agree about more scrutiny in background checks. I think talk of taking guns from average owners is right wing fearmongering. There will never be a repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

The Democratic Party has had both a centrist and a left-leaning wing for a loooong time. A lot of attitudes of younger people today are a direct result of progressives and leftists pushing society to improve, to be more egalitarian, to respect the rights of all people regardless of color or gender or sexual orientation. Younger people are also generally further to the left than older people. So I don't know which "young liberals" you're talking to....

"improve" is just their opinion. I don't see a lot of the sjw's pushing for anything that's "improved." Their idea's on racism is teaching blacks to hate whites. And white to be ashamed for being white. All this pronoun business, imo, isn't an improvement either. Any time you have to "force" half of the people to do something, then their rights are violated. Forcing people to accept something they don't believe in, like baking a gay wedding cake (or anything along those lines) goes against someone's beliefs. And it also goes against their right to liberty.

Oh, and we've only had two Democratic Presidential candidates since Obama. I don't see Clinton or Biden being all that much less liberal than Obama, nor is that a terribly long period of time.

The reasons why Clinton lost has to do with her connection with the establishment and MIC (military industrial complex) A lot of democrats were tired of the Clinton/Bush era. Had their not been an electoral college, then I don't think Clinton would've had more votes than Trump. But because of the EC, most conservatives on the west and east coast, just don't even bother voting. Because they know that all of them together, isn't going to change the outcome. This is why I support abolishing the EC.
Maybe, with the progressives in power, this will get done.

 

[ecofarm]

I see what you're saying.

lol

 

[CaughtInThe]

Back when I called myself a democrat

what year?

 

[Simpletruther]

Obama isn't a liberal.

But some of your other points I can agree with, I was a Republican for 30 plus years, then around 2010 I saw there was absolutely NOTHING conservative about the Republican Party anymore. All that mattered to them was getting in power, staying in power and giving tax breaks to their rich donors. So as a working man, I left. Or to paraphrase Reagan, the GOP left me..

They were once the party of the working man, but by 2010 they didn't give a rats ass about the millions of working people who were losing their jobs and homes. It was all about tax breaks for their rich friends. And blaming the working people for the crash, they refused to blame their rich Wall Street friends.

BTW you are generalizing too much about liberals, I know plenty, who like true cons wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire, wouldn't piss on Sanders if he was on fire either.. And that is the problem with some of your argument, Sanders didn't even come close to being the Dem nominee.. Trump was the GOP nominee and was elected president AND has completely taken over the Republican Party. So which party has moved further from the middle? Which party has 'pushed' the extremists out?

Your further from the middle point isn't supported by the other poster.
He wouldn't piss On trump because trump isn't conservative enough,
tump is closer to the center than he.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

I may be the wrong one to debate about the 2nd Amendment since I'm a gun owner, but I agree about more scrutiny in background checks. I think talk of taking guns from average owners is right wing fearmongering. There will never be a repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

I'm with you on the background checks. And you're also right about the fear mongering the NRA and republicans push about the 2A. But when you got progressives saying things like "You're damn right I'm gonna take your AR," then you have a LOT of decent AR owners who are in fear of losing their guns.

This is a point when old fashion liberals should've stood up and publicly told progressive Beto to STFU.

 

[Grand Mal]

You'll get no argument from me about how bad Trump is and how bad he used to be. NYC real estate is a tough business. You almost have to be crooked to do that up there. Hell, the agent I used to sell my last house, had a few tricks up his sleeve.


Reagan, IMO was no conservative. The ONLY thing conservative about Reagan was his speeches. His spending habit proves he was no conservative. He, along with the democrats, increased the debt ceiling like 17 times. We got one tax reduction and 4 tax increases. When it came to immigration, he was pretty conservative. He gave amnesty to over 3 million illegals. Something the left would praise him for today, had he not been a republican.
BTW, funny thing about that. With all the progressive things that Trump did, like the "wall," spending, bump stock ban, Planned Parenthood funding (etc etc etc), you'd think the left would praise him a little. But because of the progressive agenda, they're not allowed to praise anyone on the right. Even when he does something they would've done themselves.


Palin was a nice lady. And maybe a decent governor. But she was not qualified for national politics. And she damn sure wasn't anything us original Tea Party (07) supporters wanted.

Tea Party, huh? I always wondered why you guys called yourselves after a bunch of liberals.