This is what happens when you elect a MORON for president

[Airyaman]

LOL

When you resort to ad hom, you erase your credibility and any reason to give a moments notice to your thoughts and opinions.

Hmmm...

Not dodging anything Airya.

I guess I'm just attempting to give you more intellectual credit than you apparently deserve.

 

[tres borrachos]

And in the process you have, what? A stable government free of scandal? Trump will be remembered (unfortunately), as the worst, most incompetent 'president' America has had the misfortune to suffer. He has alienated allies, betrayed them and become buddies with some of the worst despots on the planet. He has lied consistently to his voters, made cynical promises to them he had no hope of keeping and has broken even more. All hail Trump, the wise, honest and stable genius.

Trump supporters don't care about any of that. They worship him. Whatever he says is gospel. Whatever he thinks is the truth. They don't care if everyone in the world opposes him, and they stand alone with him.

I remember seeing this once before. In the 1970s. In a country called Guyana.

 

[ocean515]

You think that those catastrophic responses convince people not to attack America? I assure you it does the exact opposite. Again, that's why we're in this mess in the first place. The middle East is perhaps the most strategically important region in the world. Not just because of oil, but because it sits on the crossroads between three continents, Europe, Asia and Africa. It's not some backwater, it has strong economic, cultural, ethnic, and linguistic connections to the entire rest of the world. There's a reason it was the birthplace of civilization after all. The middle east has been fought over ever since armies existed to fight over it, and it will continue to be fought over in the future. And if you think we can avoid the consequences by pulling out, you are dreaming.

It doesn't matter. The US will always be a target. We now have the capability of dealing with those who attack in a different manner.

The lesson from all this is that you can't win a battle when you are fighting a culture.

So you deal with it differently.

Crossroads? Well, geographically speaking, what you say is true.

But culturally, economically, and politically, the region means nothing, as far as the US goes.

If it's a critical issue to Europe, let the EU send men and women, and invest the treasure necessary to do something about it.

 

[ataraxia]

The Kurds did the bulk of the dirty work in the fight against ISIS. Estimates are they lost tens of thousands of soldiers. For the US to now turn its back on them and leave them out to dry means no allies are ever going to trust us again.

 

[ocean515]

Hmmm...

Hey, answering you in kind is not ad hom Airya. You launch a personal attack, I return the favor.

And given your exchanges with me here, my statement is an accurate observation.

 

[Irredentist]

It doesn't matter. The US will always be a target. We now have the capability of dealing with those who attack in a different manner.

The lesson from all this is that you can't win a battle when you are fighting a culture.

So you deal with it differently.

Crossroads? Well, geographically speaking, what you say is true.

But culturally, economically, and politically, the region means nothing, as far as the US goes.

If it's a critical issue to Europe, let the EU send men and women, and invest the treasure necessary to do something about it.

If it's an issue for Europe then it is an issue for the United States. Do not forgot, our economy is heavily integrated with that of Europe, what affects one of us will affect the other. We live in a a global world, not a provincial one. Isolationism isn't going to save you.

 

[Airyaman]

Hey, answering you in kind is not ad hom Airya. You launch a personal attack, I return the favor.

And given your exchanges with me here, my statement is an accurate observation.

Point out my "personal attack" that prompted you to mention anything about my intelligence. It is you who had the first "ad hom".

 

[ocean515]

If it's an issue for Europe then it is an issue for the United States. Do not forgot, our economy is heavily integrated with that of Europe, what affects one of us will affect the other. We live in a a global world, not a provincial one. Isolationism isn't going to save you.

There is some truth to that, at least when it comes to trade. But as we have learned, the EU has been screwing the US for many years, so some change may not have that big an impact.

In the end, if the EU is threatened, it's time to step up. The US, and it's heroic men and women in the Military, along with the citizens who pay for it all, have done enough.

I have a simple policy. Do your thing within your borders. No problems, your business.

Attack us, and we return the favor with selective catastrophic result.

 

[snakestretcher]

I think your opinion means nothing, given the extremism from which you operate. So, save your sad for something more importation. Like perhaps your future.

I don't have all the information that the President has.

I do know we have spent decades trying to do something in the region. Where are we now?

I spend a fair amount of time with ME war veterans, who are shattered by the experience. My generation fought in Vietnam, another political boondoggle. Veterans from Vietnam were shattered too.

So, regarding the region, when do we call it a game?

Time to begin to get out. We have the ability to erase all trace of anyone we select, at any time. Might be some collateral damage, but it's obvious nobody cares about that.

There is no end to the game of global hegemony.

 

[Irredentist]

There is some truth to that, at least when it comes to trade. But as we have learned, the EU has been screwing the US for many years, so some change may not have that big an impact.

In the end, if the EU is threatened, it's time to step up. The US, and it's heroic men and women in the Military, along with the citizens who pay for it all, have done enough.

I have a simple policy. Do your thing within your borders. No problems, your business.

Attack us, and we return the favor with selective catastrophic result.

Europe is the single largest export market for American products, as well as the 2nd largest source of American imports. We don't protect Europe solely for their sake but for ours as well. Because their condition directly impacts our own.

 

[calamity]

What could possibly go wrong?


"My great and unmatched wisdom" --- Donald J Trump.

Yeah, right.

Trump’s Call to Leave Syria Draws Fire From GOP Allies - WSJ

Trump's Former ISIS Envoy Slams Syria Pullout: 'Donald Trump Is Not Commander-In-Chief' | National Review

Lindsey Graham lets loose on Trump over his withdrawal from Syria - Business Insider

Trump’s Crazy Syria Move Will Wipe Out America’s Allies and Set Up a Big ISIS Comeback

Mitch McConnell criticizes Trump's Syria withdrawal in rare show of defiance – as it happened | US news | The Guardian

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ns-slam-trump-syria-move-191007153601112.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f0d11e-e914-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/chris-murphy-donald-trump-syria-ukraine

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald...tha-power-called-the-administration-reckless/


You righties need to pull your collective heads out of your ass and wake the **** up.

Fat chance of the bold happening. You know the adage. Stupid is as stupid does. And, them boyz iz stoopid.

 

[ocean515]

Europe is the single largest export market for American products, as well as the 2nd largest source of American imports. We don't protect Europe solely for their sake but for ours as well. Because their condition directly impacts our own.

So we should send $100's of billions of dollars and 10's of thousands of men and women to the war ravaged regions, for decades to come, so we can prop up our trade with Europe?

What is Europe doing to protect it's own interests?

 

[Irredentist]

So we should send $100's of billions of dollars and 10's of thousands of men and women to the war ravaged regions, for decades to come, so we can prop up our trade with Europe?

What is Europe doing to protect it's own interests?

I'm not suggesting that we continue our campaign of foreign intervention to the same degree that we have. I wholeheartedly agree that the Iraq war, the Afghan war, and this whole nuclear dispute with Iran are pointless wastes of time, resources, and lives. But acting like we can drop the issue now and run away without facing any consequences simply denies reality, we're part of the game now and we have to play it out.

 

[ocean515]

I'm not suggesting that we continue our campaign of foreign intervention to the same degree that we have. I wholeheartedly agree that the Iraq war, the Afghan war, and this whole nuclear dispute with Iran are pointless wastes of time, resources, and lives. But acting like we can drop the issue now and run away without facing any consequences simply denies reality, we're part of the game now and we have to play it out.

I don't think we are running away. It shouldn't be forgotten that one of the President's objectives when taking office was to get us out of these never ending wars we have been mired in.

I think it is wise for every Commander to constantly evaluate strategy and make informed decisions based on available information.

I get back to this one salient point. Is the region any better after 18 years of engagement?

How long does "play it out" mean? Another year? Another 5? Another 18?

And again, what is the EU doing to protect it's own interests, in it's own back yard?

 

[jnug]

So we should send $100's of billions of dollars and 10's of thousands of men and women to the war ravaged regions, for decades to come, so we can prop up our trade with Europe?

What is Europe doing to protect it's own interests?

That is a straw man. Nobody is asking for what is bolded above. Not even a nice try.

 

[ocean515]

That is a straw man. Nobody is asking for what is bolded above. Not even a nice try.

No it's not.

Try again. This time with some facts.

 

[Irredentist]

I don't think we are running away. It shouldn't be forgotten that one of the President's objectives when taking office was to get us out of these never ending wars we have been mired in.

I think it is wise for every Commander to constantly evaluate strategy and make informed decisions based on available information.

I get back to this one salient point. Is the region any better after 18 years of engagement?

How long does "play it out" mean? Another year? Another 5? Another 18?

And again, what is the EU doing to protect it's own interests, in it's own back yard?

The EU has had troops fighting alongside us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria the entire time. I don't think anyone would claim the region is better due to foreign intervention. But a sudden withdrawal will hardly improve matters. After all, that exact occurence is what allowed ISIS to sieze western Iraq in the first place, an invasion that took only days to complete, but years to undo.

 

[snakestretcher]

Thanks for sharing Dr. Kissinger.

I will confess that I don't give a damn about the people in the failed countries we have been trying to help.

I care more about the men and women we have been sending there, to deal with a region that means little.

The US is the largest exporter of energy in the world today. That's gives us significant power and influence.

I agree we are a target. We have the means to deal with that in catastrophic ways against anyone who tries.

"Trying to help"! When will it sink in that fighting wars isn't about helping anyone but the protagonists and their quest for global hegemony? "The people" just get in the way.

 

[GDViking]

Your "investment in blood and treasure" is what created the turmoil in the region in the first place. Decades of exploitation, manipulation, invasions and wars and now Trump's latest act of genius is going to unleash even more horrors onto an already volatile region. How is this not obvious?

Cultists do not care even a little bi,

Their only loyalty is to the all powerful umpa loompa, if he says it it must be so...

They have no thoughts of their own....

 

[poweRob]

You’re calling OP a “radical”?

He calls everything he doesn't like radical. Peas and broccoli are radical.

 

[TomFitz]

It's fascinating to see the shift in indoctrinated mindset by radicals who previously ripped Republicans apart for supporting wars, who are now shaking their pretend M16's in the air in defiance of steps to disconnect from wars.

Actually, its fascinating to see all the people who ranted and raved when Obama talked about “leading from behind” endorse quitting and running away entirely,

The hypocracy is palpable.

And your criticism of an imaginary “shift” holds no water.

The “left” has never endorsed reckless foreign policy moves whose entire purpose is to pander to a parochial political base.

 

[Trump]

Your callous attitude and disregard for human life is what got us into this mess in the first place. Thinking we can get out easily now is pure fantasy. Even if we withdrew every single troop we would not avoid this situation because it has already been created, and the effects are global, not local. We have made ourselves a target due to our involvement in the region, and withdrawal now will not change that.

Exactly what military industrial complex wants citizens to believe. It’s our fault for getting involved in wars and it’s our fault for trying to get out of wars....the only answer is never ending wars.

Count me out. ME is a quagmire.

 

[ocean515]

Actually, its fascinating to see all the people who ranted and raved when Obama talked about “leading from behind” endorse quitting and running away entirely,

The hypocracy is palpable.

And your criticism of an imaginary “shift” holds no water.

The “left” has never endorsed reckless foreign policy moves whose entire purpose is to pander to a parochial political base.

I think it's fair to claim there is some hypocrisy.

But at what point does that claim go away, when the situation has changed?

Millions supported the Korean War, but when that ended in a stalemate and negotiated cease fire, did that mean everyone who supported that solution were hypocrites?

Millions supported the Vietnam War. Did they become hypocrites when they supported ending our involvement in it?

As to your final point, I'll turn back to Vietnam and enjoy you eating your words.....

 

[jnug]

No it's not.

Try again. This time with some facts.

we should send $100's of billions of dollars and 10's of thousands of men and women to the war ravaged regions, for decades to come

Thats a straw man. If you don't like it TOO BAD!!

 

[ocean515]

we should send $100's of billions of dollars and 10's of thousands of men and women to the war ravaged regions, for decades to come

Thats a straw man. If you don't like it TOO BAD!!

Thanks for sharing.