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this defendant probably has a point

False. It's very mechanically simple, and we've been doing similar procedures in more mainstream applications for decades. It's a thing directly under skin, that's all. The main unique risk, assuming proper material is used, is simple rejection. Not much different from a piercing. Although in this case, undoubtedly a bigger scar would be involved if you allowed it to continue. And there's the standard stuff in any case where a wound is created -- infection, abscess, etc. There may also be a chance of shifting of the implant in some parts of the body.

Most body modification procedures, no matter how bizarre they may look, are re-purposing of very common, simple, and well-understood procedures. The reason is because body modification artists have to be able to perform it safely without lots of gadgetry, and the client has to be able to tolerate the procedure. Believe it or not, most practitioners who do things like this are actually quite knowledgeable and selective about their clients, and most have multiple certifications for hygiene, emergency measures, and various other kinds of training.

None of it is terribly complex or cutting-edge, medically speaking. They're just using it for stuff that looks "weird" to you.

But even if that weren't the case, that doesn't mean they couldn't consent anyway. If they understand risks are unknown, then that's their decision to make.

To re-use one of my earlier examples, most early eye correction patients really had no idea what the risks are because there was no data -- and we didn't learn there can be distant future risks until people had them a long time later, obviously.

They were still considered competent to consent, despite the many unknowns about it at the time.

The only reason you think this is different is because you think it looks weird (ignoring the fact that we actually do know the risks for these kinds of things anyway).

"False. Wrong. Total BS."

It's impossible to give informed consent without all the known risks being disclosed, and even in health care, the types of potential risks to disclose to a patient are very subject to interpretation. Unless you can tell me that body modification practitioners have consent forms that disclose the most serious of risks - and support it with some kind of evidence besides your own assertion, which you seem to hate doing - your arguments don't hold much water.
 
"False. Wrong. Total BS."

It's impossible to give informed consent without all the known risks being disclosed, and even in health care, the types of potential risks to disclose to a patient are very subject to interpretation. Unless you can tell me that body modification practitioners have consent forms that disclose the most serious of risks - and support it with some kind of evidence besides your own assertion, which you seem to hate doing - your arguments don't hold much water.

Yes, followed with a full description of exactly why. Your problem?

Well, apparently health care disagrees, since it does new procedures with unknown long-term risks all the time, as I already stated. People are still deemed able to consent if they are informed that long-term risks are not fully known. Why would this be any different?

Yes, all properly licensed studios have consent forms. They are required to have some sort of consent form by law, but in my experience, they are actually much more comprehensive than the law requires. Most studios I have been to have several pages dedicated to information about the procedure, including risks, and they could afford to make it much more brief. Why? Because the government has deemed -- I think reasonably -- that the worth-mentioning risks of most body mods are quite brief and simple since, as I already said, the procedures themselves are quite simple. But most studios decide to be more detailed of their own volition.

All states have their own licensing procedure, both for individual practitioners and establishments. There's no federal code in this country, per se.

Here's the one in Minnesota, codes on the right. Some basic risks must be listed on the consent form, but a more full explanation of complications and what they might look like must be on the required aftercare sheet.

In my experience in MN, it tends to be listed in both places regardless of this not being required.

License Minnesota: Body Art Technician Licenses
 
BS. People consent to procedures that could have dangers all the time, both necessary and elective. Boob jobs, all forms of pelvic surgery for any reason, any gastrointestinal surgery, LASIK, etc, etc, etc. All of these can have complications even in the distant future.

A sane, intellectually competent adult who understand what the risks might be can consent to all of these. What makes a modification you think is weird any different?

I think he has the right to the mods. He doesn't have the right to use his choices as an excuse or to expect that people won't look later him and give precisely the response he is going for.
 
I think he has the right to the mods. He doesn't have the right to use his choices as an excuse or to expect that people won't look later him and give precisely the response he is going for.

Not saying he does. However, in a court matter, I think the lawyer has a point.

We can't expect impartiality from anyone in day-to-day life. But we aim for it as best we can in legal proceedings.
 
He looks guilty... that is all that matters.
 
Not saying he does. However, in a court matter, I think the lawyer has a point.

We can't expect impartiality from anyone in day-to-day life. But we aim for it as best we can in legal proceedings.
So...tattoo satanic symbols on your face and never worry about facing trial?
 
...Who's saying he shouldn't have to go to trial, exactly?
If your assertion is that he might not get a fair trial based on his appearance then its unlikely ANYWHERE he goes there wouldnt be absolute bias, one way or the other. Personally...I think that since the details of the crime are known and the two other defendants were found guilty, the claim by his attorney that he cant get a fair trial is all smoke and mirrors.
 
If your assertion is that he might not get a fair trial based on his appearance then its unlikely ANYWHERE he goes there wouldnt be absolute bias, one way or the other. Personally...I think that since the details of the crime are known and the two other defendants were found guilty, the claim by his attorney that he cant get a fair trial is all smoke and mirrors.

The lawyer's proposal for how to do this didn't involve him not having a trial, or even being absent from that trial.

I don't know anything about why he is suspect having only read the article in the OP, so I don't know if his trial is a shoe-in or more iffy or not.
 
It depends. If the modification can result in dangers to the person's health at some point down the line, the individual might not be able to give informed consent.

Since he's into kidnapping, torturing, and dismembering other human beings, he most likely isn't too concerned about long term effects on his own health.
 
if you look like that, chances are you have zero funds for a defense lawyer...after all it's not like the guy can work at your regular 7/11 or has ever owned a suit
Don't be so harsh. He has a suit. He purchased it at Goodwill (for his best bud's funeral, no doubt) and cut the sleeves off. It's now wrinkled on the floor of his girlfriend's bedroom in the corner. The dog sleeps on it.
 
Why? ???????????

Because its their body to do with as they please and it is absolutely none of your or my affair. That's why.
 
actually, a few of them. on his forehead
hold the trial and then execute him
Massachusetts man fears his horns, ’666′ forehead tattoo will make a fair trial impossible

I'd be inclined to think that the man's appearance may work in his favour in that he presents a very intimidating presence and should some of his biker gang friends show up for the trial, equally decked out, they could sway a nervous jury not to convict lest they suffer a similar fate.

That said, I'm very glad I'm getting old and I won't be around when all hell breaks out.
 
if you look like that, chances are you have zero funds for a defense lawyer...after all it's not like the guy can work at your regular 7/11 or has ever owned a suit

I don't know a lot of bikers who work in convenience stores, but they sure have lots of money. I'll bet he has a very well paid lawyer.
 
I don't know a lot of bikers who work in convenience stores, but they sure have lots of money. I'll bet he has a very well paid lawyer.

if he is a gang member he will, you are right, on the other hand he may just have been hired by the gang to off the witnesses...regardless he won't want to remove the modifications as they may keep him safe during his prison stay, on the other hand others may view it as a challenge to punch out satan.

it's a weird world
 
This certainly raises questions about how impartial a jury can ever really be. I imagine that, accused of the same crime with the same evidence, this guy would get convicted more often than someone who looked more like everyone else. It also raises the question of what would be a truly impartial jury for him. Would it only be a group of people who are likely on the avant garde side of things like he is? Does that bias them towards him? A jury is supposed to be representative of the standards of the community, but when do you do when a defendant is simply unlike others in the community?
The man's appearance isn't and shouldn't be on trial. It should be his guilt or innocence of this particular crime.


True, but after reading what this guys on trial for I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for him.
 
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