Thirty-nine thousand Verizon workers on strike in US

[RDS]

I simply DON'T care about YOUR GDP that's not part of this discussion . Find a job that suits you in Singapore !

:lamo Where do you think I am from?

 

[Socrates1]

Compare your GDP per capita with ours!

Again , I DON'T CARE ABOUT SINGAPORE'S GDP ! :roll:

 

[Frank Apisa]

Actually, you choose to falsely represent yourself. Whether on purpose, or obliviously, is anyone's guess.

Oh, get off it.

You obviously are so wrapped up in your ideology, you cannot get it.

No problem. Doesn't make you a bad person.

 

[Socrates1]

:lamo Where do you think I am from?

Behind a keyboard is my guess . :lamo Why the GDP horsecrap ? :shock: Most individuals with skills will get a job that pays them very well , so go out and find that job and stop complaining .

 

[RDS]

Behind a keyboard is my guess . :lamo Why the GDP horsecrap ? :shock: Most individuals with skills will get a job that pays them very well , so go out and find that job and stop complaining .

Join Date Feb 2016: Mmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Socrates1]

You compete with the rest of the world. India and China has the edge here.

Because of poor trade deals that allow dumping and currency manipulation , a total disregard for environmental issues ,and exploitation of children ! So now I see why you are a BIG Hillary fan those favors are a result of massive foreign contributions to the Clinton Fraud Foundation ! :shock:

 

[Socrates1]

join date feb 2016: Mmmmmmmmmmmm

and ????

 

[countryboy]

Oh, get off it.

You obviously are so wrapped up in your ideology, you cannot get it.

No problem. Doesn't make you a bad person.

I feel the same way about you Frank

 

[Moon]

Its a new trend called permatemping, where corporations are using temporary and independent contracts, as loopholes to avoid labor laws, meaning employees can be fired for no reason and at anytime, they aren't protected by most labor and wage laws, many work with no overtime, for less than minimum wage with no sick days, vacation days, lunch breaks etc etc etc many corporations keeping employees on temporary contracts (originally meant for your first 90 days) for 5 years or more, temp workers currently make up about 15% of american workers, but its hard too determine how many of these would be considered "perma temps"

Verizon wireless in particular does this with almost all of its customer service and technician jobs, and that $1.8 billion dollars if it were distributed fairly would come out to $10k per month for every employee

So if Verizon loses money you'd suport the employees giving up some of their pay to erase the loss? I mean, that would only be fair, right?

 

[James972]

This is the disgusting part of "free enterprise" of "unfettered capitalism."

Profit for capital becomes the over-riding concern.

of course that is 100% absurd. The beauty of capitalism is that the over riding concern is to please your fellow man. If you are not the best in the entire world at it you don't survive. If you doubt it go into business with another objective and let us know how you do. Now do you understand?

 

[Frank Apisa]

of course that is 100% absurd. The beauty of capitalism is that the over riding concern is to please your fellow man. If you are not the best in the entire world at it you don't survive. If you doubt it go into business with another objective and let us know how you do. Now do you understand?

I can only hope that some day...you do.

 

[Socrates1]

WSWS has a point in the capitalism greed.

Thirty-nine thousand Verizon workers on strike in US - World Socialist Web Site

More jobs being outsourced to India , we will be left with stocking Walmart . :shock:

 

[Thrilla]

Its a new trend called permatemping, where corporations are using temporary and independent contracts, as loopholes to avoid labor laws, meaning employees can be fired for no reason and at anytime, they aren't protected by most labor and wage laws, many work with no overtime, for less than minimum wage with no sick days, vacation days, lunch breaks etc etc etc many corporations keeping employees on temporary contracts (originally meant for your first 90 days) for 5 years or more, temp workers currently make up about 15% of american workers, but its hard too determine how many of these would be considered "perma temps"

Verizon wireless in particular does this with almost all of its customer service and technician jobs, and that $1.8 billion dollars if it were distributed fairly would come out to $10k per month for every employee

it's illegal, even for a temp agency, to pay less than minimum wage, not pay overtime as per the law, and to deny lunch breaks.... (sick days and vacations days are benefits they don't generally have , though.)

sorry, but you're making **** up.

 

[Thrilla]

This is the disgusting part of "free enterprise" of "unfettered capitalism."

Profit for capital becomes the over-riding concern. The other factors of production are given short shrift...and the unfettered capitalists call it...the way things should be.

I'm a capitalist...and all for free enterprise. But if this is the way it is going to be...screw it. I'll support socialism before this.

this has literally nothing to do with free enterprise... and unfettered capitalism does not exist , except in the black market.

 

[Thrilla]

Everything you wrote is true, except it is NOT a new tactic.

I worked at a place in the 90's that used 1,000's of permatemps for YEARS. They used all sorts of reasons to extend using the same 'temps' year after year after year.

my godson works at a place now that uses temp agencies as part of their hiring process.... the use temp labor for 90 day, then they hire hte people on and don't give them benefits for another 90 days.

but this only goes for unskilled labor there... skilled labor and professionals are hired straight on.

it pisses me off that these workers don't get benefits for 180 days ( instead of the usual 90)... but i understand why they do it.....unskilled laborers are notorious for being poor employees and poor laborers.... the company wants them invested in the company and their job before the company invests in them.

it doesn't' save money on wages , but it saves time, money, and resources when it comes to benefits.( 401ks, vacations, profit sharing, healthcare insurance)
the company pays it's direct hire unskilled laborers 12 bucks an hour, starting... they pay the temp agency 14.50 an hour for temp labor.( no clue what the temp agency pays it's laborers , though)
additionally, temp agencies are considered the employers when it comes to healthcare insurance... they operate under the same rules any other employer does when it comes to offering healthcare.
what temp labor misses out on are the benefits other than healthcare....

 

[Thrilla]

Actually, workers wanting enough wages to live is the real root cause.

If our workers would only be willing to work for 65 cents an hour...we could keep everyone employed.

Really.

you both have a point.

workers wanting enough to live on is why the government enacts minimum wage laws.
minimum wages laws provides for and legally sets the target pay rate for unskilled labor.... and firms will hit that target , generally without fail.

the thing is, the bottom scale pay rates will never change, they will always be the bottom, and they will all become an "unlivable wage", no matter what specific dollar amount it's set at. .... we can set the minimum wage level to 50 bucks an hour, and as the markets transition over time, that 50 bucks an hour will become an "unlivable wage" as well......as these earnings numbers increase, so does the poverty rate scales ( at 50 bucks an hours, 100 grand, or whatever, becomes the new poverty level)

but then again, most folks understand that minimum wage is not, nor is it intended to be a "livable wage"...most folks understand the idea that minimum wage jobs are simply part of the progression folks go though on their way to being skilled professionals.
they are meant for high schoolers and college students and such....they aren't meant to be careers one can raise a family happily ever after on.

overvaluing unskilled labors will, inherently, undervalue skilled labor(especially during the drawn out market transition) so what we end up with is folks arguing the burger flippers are of more value than the trained master electrician, or the trained and educated accountant, or the professional law enforcement officer... etc ..etc ..etc.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

my godson works at a place now that uses temp agencies as part of their hiring process.... the use temp labor for 90 day, then they hire hte people on and don't give them benefits for another 90 days.

but this only goes for unskilled labor there... skilled labor and professionals are hired straight on.

it pisses me off that these workers don't get benefits for 180 days ( instead of the usual 90)... but i understand why they do it.....unskilled laborers are notorious for being poor employees and poor laborers.... the company wants them invested in the company and their job before the company invests in them.

it doesn't' save money on wages , but it saves time, money, and resources when it comes to benefits.( 401ks, vacations, profit sharing, healthcare insurance)
the company pays it's direct hire unskilled laborers 12 bucks an hour, starting... they pay the temp agency 14.50 an hour for temp labor.( no clue what the temp agency pays it's laborers , though)
additionally, temp agencies are considered the employers when it comes to healthcare insurance... they operate under the same rules any other employer does when it comes to offering healthcare.
what temp labor misses out on are the benefits other than healthcare....

I have no problem with any company hiring Temp help through Temp agencies. That's a time tested way to do business. There's times if a company knows they will only need extra employees for a certain amount of time that hiring Temps from a Temp agency is smart and good business.

But I have a problem with what the company I worked for did in the 90's, and what Verizon is doing because the reason is to just hire employees as temps so they didn't have to give benefits to those employees. It's basically nothing but a loophole.

 

[What if...?]

"I'm an independent capitalist, but by god I'll support socialism". :roll:

Well, if the car's broke...

 

[countryboy]

Well, if the car's broke...

If the car's broke what? You either fix it or get a new one. You don't go Amish.

Terrible analogy.

 

[What if...?]

Setting minimum wage levels is the root cause of problems. Cheaper to outsource.

Starvation level wages here, with our cost of living, are still several times what foreign labor costs.

Offshoring occurs because it is very profitable.

Minimum wage has little to do with it.

 

[RDS]

Starvation level wages here, with our cost of living, are still several times what foreign labor costs.

Offshoring occurs because it is very profitable.

Minimum wage has little to do with it.

Education, skilled workforce, productivity increases gets everyone two notches up over and above minimum wages.

 

[Helix]

Verizon is too big and has too much market share in many markets. if i want good coverage in my area, they are pretty much the only game in town other than AT&T, which should also be broken up again. hence, my bill just went up like fifteen bucks a month. it shouldn't cost more than one hundred bucks a month to own a cell phone at this point.

 

[What if...?]

Education, skilled workforce, productivity increases gets everyone two notches up over and above minimum wages.

All the productivity increases here have gone to the owners for 40 years now.

We have structural issues with our iteration of capitalism.

 

[What if...?]

If the car's broke what? You either fix it or get a new one. You don't go Amish.

Terrible analogy.

That's what I mean.

Its broke. Fix it or replace it.

Our current iteration of capitalism is limping down the road blowing smoke and spewing tranny fluid.

Time for an overhaul.

 

[countryboy]

That's what I mean.

Its broke. Fix it or replace it.

Our current iteration of capitalism is limping down the road blowing smoke and spewing tranny fluid.

Time for an overhaul.

Which has nothing to do with a person who claims they are a "free market capitalist", ant yet they are going to turn to socialism. It's a ruse.