The world's most succinct argument FOR the minimum wage.

[Bullseye]

Companies making 3 or 4% margin, they're just waiting to go under anyway. And I don't mind bypassing min wage for employers, say, grossing $323,000 or less. Seattle went to $15.00 per hour. No massive layoffs. No slew of mom and pops going under. Prices didn't skyrocket. Prices didn't skyrocket and won't skyrocket because of a thing called " competition". All these horrible effects you keep warning about just didn't happen. Why? Because your wrong.

Nope, things happened just as I said. Companies laid people off or reduced hours. Some companies moved out of city limits.

 

[uptower]

Which western country raised MW 50% in 5 years ($7.25-$15.00)?

None, they raised it incrementally. America should have too. Too bad america fell behind and has to play catch up

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Nope, things happened just as I said. Companies laid people off or reduced hours. Some companies moved out of city limits.

No massive layoffs. No massive amount of mom and pops went under. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle-minimum-wage-15-dollars

 

[Bullseye]

None, they raised it incrementally. America should have too. Too bad america fell behind and has to play catch up

You did see “over 5 years”, yes? That’s called incremental. So which countries were you talking about?

 

[uptower]

You did see “over 5 years”, yes? That’s called incremental. So which countries were you talking about?

They have all raised their minimum wages over the years. Britain, Canada, Australia, NZ and lo and behold, business did not collapse. It can be done. America should have been doing it all along. If small businesses suffer, sometimes they get government subsidies. Big businesses do not, because they can weather it. Now what's the objection again?

 

[mrjurrs]

the most succinct argument is to work as a server in a red state on a Tuesday night when nobody shows up. then don't spend the ten bucks all in one place.

Why doesn't the 'higher minimum wage bad' group ever address the demand side? The place wouldn't be empty because some of the workers that have additional income will be looking to spend some of their money. More likely the place is empty because workers are too tired from working two jobs trying to make ends meet.

 

[KLATTU]

they could be, its just a hamburger joint. Five guys copied them, they seem to be full of patrons too. Are you concerned with marginal businesses? Maybe if their customers had more dough they would have more business, you know, like Ford did...

The Ford zombie meme. It just won't die ,no matter how many times it's proved to be just dumb.

 

[Helix]

Why doesn't the 'higher minimum wage bad' group ever address the demand side? The place wouldn't be empty because some of the workers that have additional income will be looking to spend some of their money. More likely the place is empty because workers are too tired from working two jobs trying to make ends meet.

in working class culture, there's the strong pull of "**** 'em if they can't make it. i did, and it sure as **** wasn't easy for me." i think of some of these people as the "sorry 'bout ya" tribe. they have been brought up on this concept, so they resent those who are lower on the socioeconomic food chain than they are. i have even met sorry bout yas who are using social safety nets themselves while voting against them.

 

[screenwriter]

in working class culture, there's the strong pull of "**** 'em if they can't make it. i did, and it sure as **** wasn't easy for me." i think of some of these people as the "sorry 'bout ya" tribe. they have been brought up on this concept, so they resent those who are lower on the socioeconomic food chain than they are. i have even met sorry bout yas who are using social safety nets themselves while voting against them.

So "social safety nets" shouldn't be available to all - regardless how they vote? Do these people not pay into those systems too? Do you suggest forehead tattoos or other identifiers to indicate who would and who wouldn't be allowed to access these programs? I'm of the hand-up-not-hand-out "tribe" but when "safety net" is your lifestyle choice do you support just letting it perpetuate generation after generation with zero intervention and zero expectation of the recipient - ever? I'm also curious about your "working class culture" statement. Even in cultures where nobody works as we define it - there is work being done. Want to point out to me a single non working class culture on the face of the planet.

 

[Helix]

So "social safety nets" shouldn't be available to all - regardless how they vote? Do these people not pay into those systems too? Do you suggest forehead tattoos or other identifiers to indicate who would and who wouldn't be allowed to access these programs? I'm of the hand-up-not-hand-out "tribe" but when "safety net" is your lifestyle choice do you support just letting it perpetuate generation after generation with zero intervention and zero expectation of the recipient - ever? I'm also curious about your "working class culture" statement. Even in cultures where nobody works as we define it - there is work being done. Want to point out to me a single non working class culture on the face of the planet.

please link the post in which i argued that people who vote against their own interests shouldn't receive benefits.

 

[cpwill]

they could be, its just a hamburger joint. Five guys copied them, they seem to be full of patrons too. Are you concerned with marginal businesses? Maybe if their customers had more dough they would have more business, you know, like Ford did...

..... I think you may want to look more closely at the example of Ford, and the math involved in that calculation. "Paying workers more won't cost money because they will buy more" is like trying to charge a battery by hooking it up to itself, through a poor conductor.

 

[screenwriter]

please link the post in which i argued that people who vote against their own interests shouldn't receive benefits.

in working class culture, there's the strong pull of "**** 'em if they can't make it. i did, and it sure as **** wasn't easy for me." i think of some of these people as the "sorry 'bout ya" tribe. they have been brought up on this concept, so they resent those who are lower on the socioeconomic food chain than they are. i have even met sorry bout yas who are using social safety nets themselves while voting against them.

I did quote your post in my reply already but here it is again.

I don't find it hypocritical to utilize a system in place for everyone (as your sentence implies it would be) - even if you do vote against it. I HATE the social security system but you better believe I'll be in line for it when the time comes. It was a payment I was forced to make into a very weak and inefficient system so I will take back out every single penny I can possibly get from it.

 

[Helix]

in working class culture, there's the strong pull of "**** 'em if they can't make it. i did, and it sure as **** wasn't easy for me." i think of some of these people as the "sorry 'bout ya" tribe. they have been brought up on this concept, so they resent those who are lower on the socioeconomic food chain than they are. i have even met sorry bout yas who are using social safety nets themselves while voting against them.

I did quote your post in my reply already but here it is again.

I don't find it hypocritical to utilize a system in place for everyone (as your sentence implies it would be) - even if you do vote against it. I HATE the social security system but you better believe I'll be in line for it when the time comes. It was a payment I was forced to make into a very weak and inefficient system so I will take back out every single penny I can possibly get from it.

i don't want to take benefits away from anyone, which differentiates me from Republicans. however, the sorry bout ya crowd annoys the shit out of me, as do other "blame the poor" working class people who are actually getting ****ed over more by those who are above them on the socioeconomic ladder.

i actually know a couple sorry bout yas who arrange their family situation so that they can collect benefits while still making as much money as possible. then they vote Republican. that just seems like a stupid plan. however, they aren't my main concern.

 

[screenwriter]

i don't want to take benefits away from anyone, which differentiates me from Republicans. however, the sorry bout ya crowd annoys the shit out of me, as do other "blame the poor" working class people who are actually getting ****ed over more by those who are above them on the socioeconomic ladder.

i actually know a couple sorry bout yas who arrange their family situation so that they can collect benefits while still making as much money as possible. then they vote Republican. that just seems like a stupid plan. however, they aren't my main concern.

You have such a disdain for these people who "arrange their family situation so that they can collect benefits while still making as much money as possible" yet you don't have a disdain for people who arrange their family situation so they can collect maximum benefits while not bothering to be work at all? I worked hard for the money that I paid into social security - oh, danger zone there - that puts me on your ***t list of people it is okay to hate. How can you say the poor are getting ****ed over when it is that working class you disdain so much that helps pay taxes into the redistribution systems? Maybe they are tired of seeing their money going into an abyss that perpetuates generational reliance on their tax dollars because they could have put that money to use for their families. I grew up poor. I had scholarships but I also qualified for Pell grants. I had an uncle that laughed at me when I applied for them. He said you think it is "free money" but the government will get it back out of you when you go to work. I told him I was okay with that since it was there for me because someone before me had paid their tax dollars in - I'll gladly do my part to lift someone else up behind be when I pay my taxes. I had to maintain my grades to maintain the grants and scholarships - aka the price I had to pay to receive the "free" money. When we have generations after generations of dependence on others money without any expectation placed on them to receive that money (other than to just be poor) makes a person not want to pay into that system. So do I say unlike Democrats I want to lift people up instead of using them for votes by keeping them poor and dependent on me?

 

[Helix]

You have such a disdain for these people who "arrange their family situation so that they can collect benefits while still making as much money as possible" yet you don't have a disdain for people who arrange their family situation so they can collect maximum benefits while not bothering to be work at all? I worked hard for the money that I paid into social security - oh, danger zone there - that puts me on your ***t list of people it is okay to hate. How can you say the poor are getting ****ed over when it is that working class you disdain so much that helps pay taxes into the redistribution systems? Maybe they are tired of seeing their money going into an abyss that perpetuates generational reliance on their tax dollars because they could have put that money to use for their families. I grew up poor. I had scholarships but I also qualified for Pell grants. I had an uncle that laughed at me when I applied for them. He said you think it is "free money" but the government will get it back out of you when you go to work. I told him I was okay with that since it was there for me because someone before me had paid their tax dollars in - I'll gladly do my part to lift someone else up behind be when I pay my taxes. I had to maintain my grades to maintain the grants and scholarships - aka the price I had to pay to receive the "free" money. When we have generations after generations of dependence on others money without any expectation placed on them to receive that money (other than to just be poor) makes a person not want to pay into that system. So do I say unlike Democrats I want to lift people up instead of using them for votes by keeping them poor and dependent on me?

i find it exceptionally hypocritical for those who bring in far more than i do to pretend to be a single parent family, collect public assistance, rail against the "lazy" poor, and then vote Republican. if you don't, i suppose that's on you. however, i still haven't argued to take anyone's benefits away.

 

[screenwriter]

i find it exceptionally hypocritical for those who bring in far more than i do to pretend to be a single parent family, collect public assistance, rail against the "lazy" poor, and then vote Republican. if you don't, i suppose that's on you. however, i still haven't argued to take anyone's benefits away.

So okay with you for one set of people to play the system and not the others? Got it.

 

[Helix]

So okay with you for one set of people to play the system and not the others? Got it.

And just like every other person who types "got it," you have intentionally misunderstood my point. Luckily for me, I don't waste time on that. Peace.

 

[screenwriter]

And just like every other person who types "got it," you have intentionally misunderstood my point. Luckily for me, I don't waste time on that. Peace.

Just like you ignore each and every point I made showing this was just a way you use to flex your anger muscle and not really discuss anything.

 

[Vadinho]

..... I think you may want to look more closely at the example of Ford, and the math involved in that calculation. "Paying workers more won't cost money because they will buy more" is like trying to charge a battery by hooking it up to itself, through a poor conductor.

The minimum wage should be increased, companies will adjust, people will make more money and the world will not collapse. Think of the reverse. What if we made it a law that a certain job cannot be paid more than X per hour, would that make us all prosper? BTW, this was actually passed into law by the very founder of modern conservative thought, Edmund Burke. The conservative movement has always been afraid of a prosperous middle class. They are scared to death of a dwindling pool of cheap labor too. That is why Trump's fixation on illegals is so absurd, he loves illegal labor and so do all the conservative farmers, ranchers, vintners, dairies, meat packers, golf course owners, horse ranchers, etc. What would they do without them?

 

[screenwriter]

The minimum wage should be increased, companies will adjust, people will make more money and the world will not collapse. Think of the reverse. What if we made it a law that a certain job cannot be paid more than X per hour, would that make us all prosper? BTW, this was actually passed into law by the very founder of modern conservative thought, Edmund Burke. The conservative movement has always been afraid of a prosperous middle class. They are scared to death of a dwindling pool of cheap labor too. That is why Trump's fixation on illegals is so absurd, he loves illegal labor and so do all the conservative farmers, ranchers, vintners, dairies, meat packers, golf course owners, horse ranchers, etc. What would they do without them?

Ah yes, the evil conservative reverse psychology ploy of simply pretending to not want illegals entering the country so that "progressives" will demand they be allowed in unabated. Sheeze. Really?

 

[Vadinho]

Ah yes, the evil conservative reverse psychology ploy of simply pretending to not want illegals entering the country so that "progressives" will demand they be allowed in unabated. Sheeze. Really?

The fixation on them was politically expedient and fed the racist core of the right wing which is why Trump ran on it. We have always had illegals here, been that way my entire 65 years. But all of a sudden, poor wittle white people became scared to death of them...while meantime the leaders and shakers of that faction depends upon them or their substitute for low wage slave labor. That is why the GOP is ALWAYS against raising wages, or unions or just about anything that helps the little guy make more dough. They sell this by making a sleight of hand trick, look over there, its a Mexican! Or an Arab! Or now its a black voter! At some point these rubes have got to catch on to the game.

 

[screenwriter]

The fixation on them was politically expedient and fed the racist core of the right wing which is why Trump ran on it. We have always had illegals here, been that way my entire 65 years. But all of a sudden, poor wittle white people became scared to death of them...while meantime the leaders and shakers of that faction depends upon them or their substitute for low wage slave labor. That is why the GOP is ALWAYS against raising wages, or unions or just about anything that helps the little guy make more dough. They sell this by making a sleight of hand trick, look over there, its a Mexican! Or an Arab! Or now its a black voter! At some point these rubes have got to catch on to the game.

Would you feel the same way if these people you wish to allow in were conservative voters?

 

[cpwill]

The minimum wage should be increased, companies will adjust, people will make more money and the world will not collapse.

Companies will adjust or die. Specifically, smaller businesses will not be able to clear the higher threshold as major corporations, and so we will watch a bunch of Mom n Pops replaced by McWorld.

Some people will make more money. Others will make less, and, CBO estimates, 1.4 million of the least-skilked, least-educated, least-advantaged among us will be thrown out of work (which, it is worth noting, was the original intent of the minimum wage).

The world won't collapse, but, I'm not exactly sure that the standard hey it doesn't literally destroy our way of life is all that great as a measurement of what makes "good" policy. It will just be a bit worse off.

Think of the reverse. What if we made it a law that a certain job cannot be paid more than X per hour, would that make us all prosper?

Certainly not. It would also make us poorer, but coming from the opposite end of the spectrum.

BTW, this was actually passed into law by the very founder of modern conservative thought, Edmund Burke. The conservative movement has always been afraid of a prosperous middle class. They are scared to death of a dwindling pool of cheap labor too.

You are projecting: Conservatives typically benefit from a strong middle class, and leftists aren't exactly immigration restrictionist.

 

[Vadinho]

Would you feel the same way if these people you wish to allow in were conservative voters?

Dude, they do not vote, get that through your head, they do not vote. If you think living in SoCal since 1961 among Mexicans of all stripes was remotely affected by their votes than you do not know the history of this migration at all. The GOP lost the Latino vote in the 90s through Prop 187. That ended the debate for them and for all of us who understood what was really going on.

 

[screenwriter]

Dude, they do not vote, get that through your head, they do not vote. If you think living in SoCal since 1961 among Mexicans of all stripes was remotely affected by their votes than you do not know the history of this migration at all. The GOP lost the Latino vote in the 90s through Prop 187. That ended the debate for them and for all of us who understood what was really going on.

Then by this you're saying the Democrats have zero intentions of making them legal.