The world's most succinct argument FOR the minimum wage.

[Helix]

If you succeed in your proposed changes, it will. Specifically, it will fire or severely curtail it's staff's hours, and increase prices so as to keep low income people from being as able to afford it

If it's one of the mega chains, who will be better able to afford the transition. If it's a mom and pop, less so. :-/

My town is right on the edge of rural and urban. We have a nice and improving downtown, racially diverse neighborhood, etc. But it's all family owned. Local ice cream parlor is rated the best in the State, has been on the food network, BBC, etc. Restaurants, are: a general hamburger American fusion joint, a couple of diners, a Mexican place, a healthy juice bar thing... We've got a quincinera shop that connects to a stylist, a florist, a barbershop, a couple of boutiques, a crafts place, and a martial arts venue. Some friends of ours are saving up to open a coffee shop.

But the restaurant side is all by hitting local kids. Probably a significant portion of the kids who have grown up here have, at one point, slung ice cream in that shop.

Over on the other side, across the in between space and the highway, is McWorld. Anything locally owned there is the little side shops nestled into the Food Lion. Restaurants are Hardee's, McDonalds, a Mexican chain, a couple of pizza chains..... They've got the money. They've got the backing of massive international corporations. All we've got is a nice town.

The idea that, if you aren't McWorld, you don't deserve to exist... that,if you can't pay a 16 year old enough to feed a family of four for scooping ice cream part time "LOLS, Guess Your Business Model Sucks!" strikes me as disconnected from reality as it is destructive. What are we supposed to tell the Quincinera store, or the Mexican family who makes actual delicious Mexican food? "Sorry, a socialist from Vermont thinks you are an oppressor; go back to Mexico, you loser with a terrible business plan, whose dream doesn't deserve to survive because people you have never met and never served find it unaesthetic."?

And so those fun little local businesses will close. McWorld will survive; in fact, McWorld will benefit from having had the State crush it's competition. We will get another ugly dunkin donut / baskin robbins to replace the ice cream shop. Maybe an Applebee's instead of the family restaurants, or a Waffle House to replace the family diners.





That's excellent to hear. Our current system is so destructive, and focuses our efforts on those who probably need it least. Education should say least try to help others.

raising the $2.13 scam wage isn't going to be the horror story that the right totes every time the idea is brought up. it's as simple as that.

 

[Wayne Jr]

What effect do you think that would have on restaurant prices, and, as a result, whether or not lower income workers will be able to afford them, v restaurants becoming a luxury of the upper/middle classes?

If the price goes up, that's ok, it's the same money. $20+$4 tip or $24 bill w/o tip. Same thing. The only customer it would impact are the stingy tippers and f those people anyway.

 

[Wayne Jr]

raising the $2.13 scam wage isn't going to be the horror story that the right totes every time the idea is brought up. it's as simple as that.

Somehow the whole rest of the world does it just fine. Canada, no tipping, $15/hr minimum wage. Australia, no tipping and $20pr/hr minimum wage. We can do the same thing.

But our minimum wage hike is not including servers.

 

[Helix]

Somehow the whole rest of the world does it just fine. Canada, no tipping, $15/hr minimum wage. Australia, no tipping and $20pr/hr minimum wage. We can do the same thing.

But our minimum wage hike is not including servers.

that's a shame. it pisses me off every time i think about it, and it makes me feel worse about tipping at all. in some places, my entire tip is probably going to the owner in the form of getting the server's wage up to minimum wage, where it should have been (at least) in the first place. the $2.13 scam was set up in 1991. that's 30 years in which it hasn't budged in some places.

 

[cpwill]

Somehow the whole rest of the world does it just fine. Canada, no tipping, $15/hr minimum wage. Australia, no tipping and $20pr/hr minimum wage. We can do the same thing.

But our minimum wage hike is not including servers.

Yeah, but, service sucks in those places.

Last time I waited tables was 2005, but, I was making about $20 an hour in tips. Not *too* terrible.

 

[uptower]

Still a huge financial hit for businesses operating on 3-4% margins.

Those businesses will probably find they get more customers because more people can afford their shit. Call it 'trickle up' if you like...

 

[Bullseye]

Those businesses will probably find they get more customers because more people can afford their shit. Call it 'trickle up' if you like...

Exctept to pay those wages the businesses will have to raise prices. Working on 3-4% margins and raising wages 15-30% doesn’t compute.

 

[screenwriter]

Exctept to pay those wages the businesses will have to raise prices. Working on 3-4% margins and raising wages 15-30% doesn’t compute.

It does seem to escape most in favor of raising MW that if you make $10 and an item costs $1 to buy it's the same as you making $100 but now that same item costs $10 to buy.

 

[Antiwar]

But.... The question itself kinda remains: what is the effect of that sudden hike in labor costs likely to be in terms of prices at restaurants, and what effect will that have on whether those restaurants are more limited to the middle/upper classes?

Your question is moot. There is no sudden federal minimum wage hike. There's a significant increase over a five-year period. That's to try to catch up from not having a less significant minimum wage increase for a longer period of time.

 

[Bullseye]

It does seem to escape most in favor of raising MW that if you make $10 and an item costs $1 to buy it's the same as you making $100 but now that same item costs $10 to buy.

Some people fail to grasp that raising the MW by such a huge amount the actual ripples through the entire wage structure and companies have little choice but to raise prices. As I mentioned elsewhere raising wages also rasies total compensation costs, i.e. employer’s FICA match goes up in sync.

 

[uptower]

Exctept to pay those wages the businesses will have to raise prices. Working on 3-4% margins and raising wages 15-30% doesn’t compute.

It's worked in plenty of western democracies. Prices haven't increased as much as the minimum wage, but consumer spending has gone up. It can lead to wage push inflation, which means yes, not too much all at once; however kep wages stagnant stalls spending so that isn't desirable either.

A smart country raises it a little every year or two to avoid this massive scrap America is having over whether it needs to double. Most of the anticipated price increase ends up being offset by more turnover because more people have the money to spend. Ask Canada.

If Congress had addressed this regularly and in increments it wouldn't be such a big gap to close but that's because conservatives never wanted to increase MW at all.

 

[MrWonka]

You are clearly more interested in baiting then intellectual discussion. The problem with a $15.00 minimum wage is that the consequences would be mostly negative, starting with massive layoffs followed by many low or no-skilled labor jobs becoming automated. Even ignoring all of that, the rise in the cost of goods and services would in the long run make the minimum wage increase a wash to those it's allegedly intended to help.

Lol!!! You don't get to just ignore the core point of the thread-like it didn't happen, dude. We have raised the minimum wage more than 20 times since the 1930s and yet still as recently as just a few years ago we had unemployment under 5% and falling. How is that even possible if anything you're saying is remotely accurate?

If raising the minimum wage killed jobs as you say, then how can we have full employment after raising it 20 times before?

 

[Vadinho]

I went to an Inn and Out last year in California, place was packed. Ordered my burger, 5-6 bucks for a great burger. Sign on the window said "Hiring, starting wage 16 an hour". Tell me again that fast food joints will go under if they pay a real wage.....

 

[Bullseye]

It's worked in plenty of western democracies. Prices haven't increased as much as the minimum wage, but consumer spending has gone up. It can lead to wage push inflation, which means yes, not too much all at once; however kep wages stagnant stalls spending so that isn't desirable either.

A smart country raises it a little every year or two to avoid this massive scrap America is having over whether it needs to double. Most of the anticipated price increase ends up being offset by more turnover because more people have the money to spend. Ask Canada.

If Congress had addressed this regularly and in increments it wouldn't be such a big gap to close but that's because conservatives never wanted to increase MW at all.

Which western country raised MW 50% in 5 years ($7.25-$15.00)?

 

[KLATTU]

I went to an Inn and Out last year in California, place was packed. Ordered my burger, 5-6 bucks for a great burger. Sign on the window said "Hiring, starting wage 16 an hour". Tell me again that fast food joints will go under if they pay a real wage.....

oh ---so every business in america is like that place?
#Moron#stupid#Math

 

[Eriech]

We had a new hire this month who will be paid minimum wage, currently $12.15 per hour. He just turned 16. His income ($100 plus per week) is 100% disposable. Clean, articulate, technology savy and no baggage or bad habits. Excited about hist first job, on time or early every shift and is learning fast. Doesn't mind short shifts and content with a 8-15 hour paycheck but willing to do more as needed during the vacations. Hopefully he will work through high school and college. We have had many over the years to do so.
When I started minimum wage was $1.65. Since Reagan the minimum wage around here hasn't been very relevant as the prevailing wage has been higher. It was very relevant in the 70s as I recall. Liberals are fixing that with their $1 per year increase narrowing that gap. Soon the minimum wage will be the maximum for many.

 

[Vadinho]

oh ---so every business in america is like that place?
#Moron#stupid#Math

they could be, its just a hamburger joint. Five guys copied them, they seem to be full of patrons too. Are you concerned with marginal businesses? Maybe if their customers had more dough they would have more business, you know, like Ford did...

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Exctept to pay those wages the businesses will have to raise prices. Working on 3-4% margins and raising wages 15-30% doesn’t compute.

Companies making 3 or 4% margin, they're just waiting to go under anyway. And I don't mind bypassing min wage for employers, say, grossing $323,000 or less. Seattle went to $15.00 per hour. No massive layoffs. No slew of mom and pops going under. Prices didn't skyrocket. Prices didn't skyrocket and won't skyrocket because of a thing called " competition". All these horrible effects you keep warning about just didn't happen. Why? Because your wrong.

 

[vegas giants]

I went to an Inn and Out last year in California, place was packed. Ordered my burger, 5-6 bucks for a great burger. Sign on the window said "Hiring, starting wage 16 an hour". Tell me again that fast food joints will go under if they pay a real wage.....

They wont. Min wage in geneva is $25 an hour and their big mac is almost the same price as ours

 

[Big Eye]

We’ve had a minimum wage in the UK for a while...up until Covid we have had record employment numbers. Imo , there doesn’t seem to be a major downside provided the minimum wage does not exceed the average wage. The only downside seems to be that the wage differential between long term skilled and youngsters just learning is decreased...

 

[HangLow]

In the United States of America, we have raised the minimum wage more than twenty separate times since the 1930s, and still, as recently as just a few years ago we had unemployment rates under 5% and falling.
If raising the minimum wage killed jobs the way right-wing dip shits claim it does then there should be no jobs left in America whatsoever.

The truth is we have so many jobs available in America that when things are going well we need about 10 million undocumented immigrants to help us do all the jobs that we have.

Even in some situations where manufacturing jobs choose to go to Mexico or China to get cheaper labor it really doesn't matter at all because there are other types of jobs being created to make up the slack. The problem isn't a lack of jobs at all, it's that those jobs don't pay very well which we can fix by raising the minimum wage.

Imagine for one second that 10 million additional manufacturing jobs that Republicans claim we're losing because of high wages actually magically came back to America. Who would even do them? Within the next year or so unemployment will likely fall back down close to 4% and at that point we wouldn't have the available
workers necessary to fill an additional 10 million jobs. So what the **** are you people even talking about?

​

 

[cpwill]

View attachment 67323249​

Wierd. It's almost as if those states have their own governments that are perfectly capable of determining whether or not a higher MW is appropriate for them.

 

[gooseneck]

In the United States of America, we have raised the minimum wage more than twenty separate times since the 1930s, and still, as recently as just a few years ago we had unemployment rates under 5% and falling.
If raising the minimum wage killed jobs the way right-wing dip shits claim it does then there should be no jobs left in America whatsoever.

The truth is we have so many jobs available in America that when things are going well we need about 10 million undocumented immigrants to help us do all the jobs that we have.

Even in some situations where manufacturing jobs choose to go to Mexico or China to get cheaper labor it really doesn't matter at all because there are other types of jobs being created to make up the slack. The problem isn't a lack of jobs at all, it's that those jobs don't pay very well which we can fix by raising the minimum wage.

Imagine for one second that 10 million additional manufacturing jobs that Republicans claim we're losing because of high wages actually magically came back to America. Who would even do them? Within the next year or so unemployment will likely fall back down close to 4% and at that point we wouldn't have the available
workers necessary to fill an additional 10 million jobs. So what the **** are you people even talking about?

Is this the most succinct or the most suckiest? I need to brush up on my grammar.

 

[gooseneck]

“militantly massless” I like that!! Well done.

I was militantly maskless back in 2018. You couldn't make me wear one of those suckers even with a nonlaw.

 

[gooseneck]

There are militantly maskless people in at least one red state.

I was totally a militantly maskless whack a doodle back in 2017.