• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Somali Pirates

Unrein

Unrein

Active member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
448
Reaction score
67
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
8 pages of circle-jerking...

I read through every one's response on the other pirate thread, and unsurprisingly not one persons exhibits any real understanding of the situation and where it's all stemming from.

Now, first thing is first, I am NOT saying that the pirates were justified, or didn't deserve punishment.

Here is a brief history lesson. In the early 1990's, Italian and Swiss companies were paid by their governments to dump nuclear waste on the shores of Somalia. There were no pirates back then. Somalia brought this issue up with the UN, who very promptly ignored them. Additionally, western and Asian companies have been poaching fish off the shores of Somalia. In fact, for every $100 million dollars Somali pirates are stealing in loot, $300 million dollars in fish is being taken illegally from their shores.

Put yourself in their situation for a second. You're a fisherman. You live under a dictatorship that literally made it illegal to stand in groups of 5 or more. You're impoverished, and a civil war is breaking out. Western companies are polluting your waters, and stealing millions of dollars of fish from your country. You went to the UN for help, they ignored you. What choices do you have?

Now, this is my biggest issue with this whole ordeal. It's this dumb f~ck ethnocentric, ignorant attitude everyone here (in the US) is taking up. The media is only telling us part of the story. Instead of offering solemn and regret that those pirates, who were human beings for f*cks sake, were put under the amount of stress and desperation that they needed to hold a merchant vessel hostage, instead we are brainlessly celebrating imperialism and death, with this self-righteous c*ck waving, flag-humping tribalism.

And some douche bag (not from this site but from an article I read) had the GULL to say that the Lord intervened and saved this a**holes life, are you kidding me? Jesus doesn't give a sh*t about the culture of victimization and imperialism being wreathed upon third world countries, he doesn't care that thousands of people are starving to death while the biggest epidemic here in the US is f*cking OBESITY, no, Jesus is only concerned with some jerk-off American merchant ship captain, that's where his priorities lie. Well thank the LORD he lived, all is right in the world and now we can go back to sitting on our fat asses, watching American idol and jerking off to anime porn on the internet. Thank god someone already took the initiative to make sacrifices to secure our freedom FOR US, god forbid we make the same effort to help someone else.

Instead of working to understand the issue and help Somalia get on it's feet, we are pushing them even further away. Do you people realize that all we did is simply MARTYR them? Do you at least understand THAT?
 
Last edited:
Well yes, it does seem it is true that a major reason that piracy was turned to originally was foreign devastation of Somalian fish stocks. But that was then, now a lot of it is simply to make a quick buck.
 
Perhaps you can spearhead a new initiative to get the Peace Corp active again in Somalia.

I'm sure you have a detailed plan all typed up and ready to go. You shouldn't have any problem getting some funding for your plan, as we sent $319 million last year to those unfortunate folks who made piracy their career choice.

USAID Africa: Somalia

Somehow I don't think you're going to make American Idol, but, it's not out of the question of you making it onto YouTube with your very own circle jerk instructional video.
 
Unrein said:
Somalia brought this issue up with the UN, who very promptly ignored them.
Click to expand...
Hmmm.
The UN did not do anything?
Jeez, that's unlike the UN.

Additionally, western and Asian companies have been poaching fish off the shores of Somalia. In fact, for every $100 million dollars Somali pirates are stealing in loot, $300 million dollars in fish is being taken illegally from their shores.
Click to expand...
The natives should have policed their waters...
They have no problem with taking on massive ships... have arms...
I guess there wasn't enough cash in that.

Put yourself in their situation for a second. You're a fisherman. You live under a dictatorship that literally made it illegal to stand in groups of 5 or more. You're impoverished, and a civil war is breaking out. ...You went to the UN for help, they ignored you. What choices do you have?
Click to expand...
Blame Bush.
It's his fault.
That might move the UN and the Euro's.

Now they get no sympathy.

Instead of offering solemn and regret that those pirates, who were human beings for f*cks sake, were put under the amount of stress and desperation that they needed to hold a merchant vessel hostage, instead we are brainlessly celebrating imperialism and death, with this self-righteous c*ck waving, flag-humping tribalism.
Click to expand...
Dead Pirates.
Good riddance.

The more we kill, the less activity of this sort will occur.

The answer is to get some functioning governments in Africa that are not rife with corruption.

The continent has received enough of our cash for decades... and they're in the same **** hole they were in 300 years ago.

They'd probably do better on their own.

BTW...

AND WHERE IS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN ALL THIS?
Why aren't they helping their brothers and sisters?

Why aren't people pointing to Farrakhan, Wright, Jackson and asking these people why they have done so little for Africa?

Obama couldn't give his brother $12 to double his annual income.

Are they racists?
Or simply loud mouth "cowards"?
Hypocrites.

Well thank the LORD he lived, all is right in the world and now we can go back to sitting on our fat asses, watching American idol and jerking off to anime porn on the internet. Thank god someone already took the initiative to make sacrifices to secure our freedom FOR US, god forbid we make the same effort to help someone else.
Click to expand...
We were in Somalia.
Remember that?
You should take a peek at Blackhawk Down.

Instead of working to understand the issue and help Somalia get on it's feet, we are pushing them even further away.
Click to expand...
Understand the issue.
Pirates are hijacking ships and asking for ransom.

I understand.

Solution:
Perhaps we should let Bill Clinton help Somalia get back on its feet, he has tremendous experience with the Somalia, and knows how to tie the hands of the military. Somalia and Rwanda are his areas illustrating his vast and exemplary expertise.

.
 
Last edited:
Moderator's Warning:
Excellent thread, moved to more appropriate forum
 
Unrein said:
8 pages of circle-jerking...

I read through every one's response on the other pirate thread, and unsurprisingly not one persons exhibits any real understanding of the situation and where it's all stemming from.

Now, first thing is first, I am NOT saying that the pirates were justified, or didn't deserve punishment.

Here is a brief history lesson. In the early 1990's, Italian and Swiss companies were paid by their governments to dump nuclear waste on the shores of Somalia. There were no pirates back then. Somalia brought this issue up with the UN, who very promptly ignored them. Additionally, western and Asian companies have been poaching fish off the shores of Somalia. In fact, for every $100 million dollars Somali pirates are stealing in loot, $300 million dollars in fish is being taken illegally from their shores.

Put yourself in their situation for a second. You're a fisherman. You live under a dictatorship that literally made it illegal to stand in groups of 5 or more. You're impoverished, and a civil war is breaking out. Western companies are polluting your waters, and stealing millions of dollars of fish from your country. You went to the UN for help, they ignored you. What choices do you have?

Now, this is my biggest issue with this whole ordeal. It's this dumb f~ck ethnocentric, ignorant attitude everyone here (in the US) is taking up. The media is only telling us part of the story. Instead of offering solemn and regret that those pirates, who were human beings for f*cks sake, were put under the amount of stress and desperation that they needed to hold a merchant vessel hostage, instead we are brainlessly celebrating imperialism and death, with this self-righteous c*ck waving, flag-humping tribalism.

And some douche bag (not from this site but from an article I read) had the GULL to say that the Lord intervened and saved this a**holes life, are you kidding me? Jesus doesn't give a sh*t about the culture of victimization and imperialism being wreathed upon third world countries, he doesn't care that thousands of people are starving to death while the biggest epidemic here in the US is f*cking OBESITY, no, Jesus is only concerned with some jerk-off American merchant ship captain, that's where his priorities lie. Well thank the LORD he lived, all is right in the world and now we can go back to sitting on our fat asses, watching American idol and jerking off to anime porn on the internet. Thank god someone already took the initiative to make sacrifices to secure our freedom FOR US, god forbid we make the same effort to help someone else.

Instead of working to understand the issue and help Somalia get on it's feet, we are pushing them even further away. Do you people realize that all we did is simply MARTYR them? Do you at least understand THAT?
Click to expand...

Nuclear waste, on Somali shores?
Got PROOF?
It boggles the mind that any country capable of having nuclear waste would travel that far to dump its nuclear waste where it can migrate to shore. One blogger suggested it was actually dumped directly on the beaches.
I have heard that at one time such wastes were being dumped at sea, but not off Somali beaches. It was being dumped in very deep parts of the oceans, by the russians, not Italians and Swiss...altho they could have done that as well. Even the USN dumps its used Ion Exchanger resins at sea, or used to.....
 
Last edited:
UtahBill said:
Nuclear waste, on Somali shores?
Got PROOF?
Click to expand...

[NAIROBI] Regions hit by the 26 December 2004 tsunami have been seriously contaminated by saltwater, bacteria and even nuclear waste, says a report released last week by the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP).

According to the report, groundwater in many of the affected areas has been contaminated by seawater infiltration and damage to toilets, septic tanks and sanitation systems.

It also says the tsunami stirred nuclear and other hazardous waste that had previously been illegally dumped along the coast of Somalia and that this waste is now affecting the health of local people.

Tsunami's legacy includes airborne toxins - SciDev.Net
 
Unrein said:
Now, first thing is first, I am NOT saying that the pirates were justified, or didn't deserve punishment.
Click to expand...

Then why the paragraphs explaining why they were justified?
 
winston53660 said:
[NAIROBI] Regions hit by the 26 December 2004 tsunami have been seriously contaminated by saltwater, bacteria and even nuclear waste, says a report released last week by the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP).

According to the report, groundwater in many of the affected areas has been contaminated by seawater infiltration and damage to toilets, septic tanks and sanitation systems.

It also says the tsunami stirred nuclear and other hazardous waste that had previously been illegally dumped along the coast of Somalia and that this waste is now affecting the health of local people.

Tsunami's legacy includes airborne toxins - SciDev.Net
Click to expand...
The article does not blame Italy or Switzerland, though....and odds are, the Somalis dragged the stuff back out to sea and dumped it there again...
Shallow dumping is stupid, that kind of stuff needs really deep dumping, if it is to be dumped at sea at all...
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Unrein said:
8 pages of circle-jerking...

I read through every one's response on the other pirate thread, and unsurprisingly not one persons exhibits any real understanding of the situation and where it's all stemming from.

Now, first thing is first, I am NOT saying that the pirates were justified, or didn't deserve punishment.

Here is a brief history lesson. In the early 1990's, Italian and Swiss companies were paid by their governments to dump nuclear waste on the shores of Somalia. There were no pirates back then. Somalia brought this issue up with the UN, who very promptly ignored them. Additionally, western and Asian companies have been poaching fish off the shores of Somalia. In fact, for every $100 million dollars Somali pirates are stealing in loot, $300 million dollars in fish is being taken illegally from their shores.

Put yourself in their situation for a second. You're a fisherman. You live under a dictatorship that literally made it illegal to stand in groups of 5 or more. You're impoverished, and a civil war is breaking out. Western companies are polluting your waters, and stealing millions of dollars of fish from your country. You went to the UN for help, they ignored you. What choices do you have?

Now, this is my biggest issue with this whole ordeal. It's this dumb f~ck ethnocentric, ignorant attitude everyone here (in the US) is taking up. The media is only telling us part of the story. Instead of offering solemn and regret that those pirates, who were human beings for f*cks sake, were put under the amount of stress and desperation that they needed to hold a merchant vessel hostage, instead we are brainlessly celebrating imperialism and death, with this self-righteous c*ck waving, flag-humping tribalism.

And some douche bag (not from this site but from an article I read) had the GULL to say that the Lord intervened and saved this a**holes life, are you kidding me? Jesus doesn't give a sh*t about the culture of victimization and imperialism being wreathed upon third world countries, he doesn't care that thousands of people are starving to death while the biggest epidemic here in the US is f*cking OBESITY, no, Jesus is only concerned with some jerk-off American merchant ship captain, that's where his priorities lie. Well thank the LORD he lived, all is right in the world and now we can go back to sitting on our fat asses, watching American idol and jerking off to anime porn on the internet. Thank god someone already took the initiative to make sacrifices to secure our freedom FOR US, god forbid we make the same effort to help someone else.

Instead of working to understand the issue and help Somalia get on it's feet, we are pushing them even further away. Do you people realize that all we did is simply MARTYR them? Do you at least understand THAT?
Click to expand...

Never say i didn't support the pirates at the beginning for that very reason.

But they are becoming a damn nuisance on me. My news channels are blocked up full of Somali this and that, the last time i heard so much on Somalia was the civil war. Besides, the threat of tax rising to deal with the shipping costs is just the icing on the cake.

But other than the news stuff, they are becoming a menace to the surrounding countries, mine in particular.

Now, i don't care for the rich ships being hijacked and at the beginning they were doing what was morally right. Defending Somali waters from foreigners poisoning us, good. Now it's just plain greed. Stupidly holding a US hostage? I mean come on, were they high when they hatched that plan? :roll:

Between my rambling, my point was that the pirates cannot turn to the dumping as justification. Remove them from the seas.
 
WI Crippler said:
Then why the paragraphs explaining why they were justified?
Click to expand...

Actually I think, and I may be wrong, that he was simply suggesting that the situation is not simple. These pirates originally took to priacy because of things like foreign, illegal fishing. In this he is correct. I'm not sure but I don't think he was trying to justify it, simply make these facts plain.
 
And some douche bag (not from this site but from an article I read) had the GULL to say that the Lord intervened and saved this a**holes life, are you kidding me? Jesus doesn't give a sh*t about the culture of victimization and imperialism being wreathed upon third world countries, he doesn't care that thousands of people are starving to death while the biggest epidemic here in the US is f*cking OBESITY, no, Jesus is only concerned with some jerk-off American merchant ship captain, that's where his priorities lie
Click to expand...

I think this little piece of the rant really says it all. Let's be hateful towards the American Captain shall we? You know, the chap who offered to be hostage if his crew were let go...what a jerk-off ***hole the Captain is for having the gall to survive when those poor pirates were shot dead.

Perhaps Unrein knows the man personally, he certainly seems judgemental enough about him. OH, I'm sorry...he's an American ship Captain, therefore a capitalist pig, what more is there to know? Silly me.

Bah. That one paragraph was quite sufficient to classify anything Unrein said as "fruit of a poison tree."

G.
 
Goshin said:
I think this little piece of the rant really says it all. Let's be hateful towards the American Captain shall we? You know, the chap who offered to be hostage if his crew were let go...what a jerk-off ***hole the Captain is for having the gall to survive when those poor pirates were shot dead.

Perhaps Unrein knows the man personally, he certainly seems judgemental enough about him. OH, I'm sorry...he's an American ship Captain, therefore a capitalist pig, what more is there to know? Silly me.

Bah. That one paragraph was quite sufficient to classify anything Unrein said as "fruit of a poison tree."

G.
Click to expand...

Well someone's feeling awfully glib and dismissive today? Don't feel exerting any intellectual honesty I see, you just want to sweep the s*** under the rug and pretend it's not there like everyone else don't you?
 
Wessexman said:
Actually I think, and I may be wrong, that he was simply suggesting that the situation is not simple.
Click to expand...

No, you're correct. I am not trying to defend them on a personal level or assert some sort of innocence, but I am more contempt with how we are dealing with it as citizens, very irresponsibly and arrogantly.
 
WI Crippler said:
Then why the paragraphs explaining why they were justified?
Click to expand...

That's not what the paragraphs were explaining, read closer. Come on, at least try would you?
 
There is a reason there are no Yemeni pirates or Kenyan pirates. Not because they are just naturally born with a stronger sense of morality, it's because they do NOT live in the conditions Somalis live in. People are NOT born criminals they are made into them by their environment and conditions.

Apparently I actually have to explain this to some of you, but that is NOT me trying to justify what they did, it is me trying to explain that we need to help them change those conditions and get their country stable. This effort has been happening on a minuscule level for the last few years, but we have been sending bandaids to a person with a severed limb.
 
Unrein said:
we need to help them change those conditions and get their country stable. This effort has been happening on a minuscule level for the last few years, but we have been sending bandaids to a person with a severed limb.
Click to expand...

who is we? The country I live in is 10 trillion in debt even though we send in ridiculous amounts of treasure to our goverment.
 
ARealConservative said:
who is we? The country I live in is 10 trillion in debt even though we send in ridiculous amounts of treasure to our goverment.
Click to expand...

That debt doesn't stop us in any other regards does it? HEY I HAVE AN IDEA. Let's pull troops out of places they aren't useful like Iraq, and GERMANY ffs, and invest those recources else where!
 
Unrein said:
That debt doesn't stop us in any other regards does it? HEY I HAVE AN IDEA. Let's pull troops out of places they aren't useful like Iraq, and GERMANY ffs, and invest those recources else where!
Click to expand...

Sure, we can keep piling on the debt. We simply import cheap products and export depreciating dollars helping to cause the disparity between 1st and 3rd world nations.

Your call to spend more money is just a continuation of the problem....But don't let logic knock you off of that giant soap box you are atop of telling us how stupid we all are.
 
ARealConservative said:
Sure, we can keep piling on the debt. We simply import cheap products and export depreciating dollars helping to cause the disparity between 1st and 3rd world nations.

Your call to spend more money is just a continuation of the problem....But don't let logic knock you off of that giant soap box you are atop of telling us how stupid we all are.
Click to expand...

No this is getting besides the point. At the point in which I'am making the decisions for this country, the budget would be handled COMPLETELY differently and there is no need what-so-ever to start that on this particular thread. So let's just say, I don't want to add to the spending, I want to move it.
 
Unrein said:
No this is getting besides the point. At the point in which I'am making the decisions for this country, the budget would be handled COMPLETELY differently and there is no need what-so-ever to start that on this particular thread. So let's just say, I don't want to add to the spending, I want to move it.
Click to expand...

it's getting pretty late. Maybe if you go to sleep you can have a nice dream about being the King of America robbing from the rich to give to the poor in African coastal communities.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom