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The reason for your existance

Pogo Possum

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You were created for God's pleasure, to serve Him willingly.

however, ever since the fall of Adam, man has been trapped in a sin nature.
This is why no one is capable of being 'good' all the time.

God requires us to be perfect, if we are to have fellowship with Him. This is because He is Holy, and Just. He must punish all sin with death, and cannot allow any guilty person to go free.
What that does, is condemn all of us, because of our sin nature.

But GOD has made a way to maintain His justice, and show us mercy.

He came in the flesh, as Christ, and died on the cross to pay for our sins.
If we accept that by faith, in the heart [not just the head], then GOD will allow Christs death to be payment for your sin.

then you are accounted as righteous before God, because you have put your trust in Jesus Christ. All of your sins are covered, both past, present, and future.

you must repent, and accept that Christ has done it all.

This is the reason for your existance, now-- though you are in sin, as a sinner- God has allowed a time of mercy, where we can accept this mercy by Christ.

You cannot earn it. You cannot buy it.
you cannot do 'good deeds' to please God, and no ceremony, or singing, or chanting, or confessing, or anything else is going to work.

The reason why, is that you are a fallen being, and have no way to achieve merit on your own. You cannot on your own, undo the sin nature, or do anything about your past.

So the only way is to accept Christ. It is a free gift.
You can't do anything at all to merit favor. But you CAN simply accept that Christ paid for your sins on the cross.

God so loved the world, that He sent His Son [God the Son] to die on the cross to pay for our sin, while WE WERE STILL IN SIN.

that shows His love.
He did this for us, while we were rebellious.

His hand is open today. Repent, and accept the FREE GIFT, no strings attached. IT really is this simple.

Accept that you are a sinner, and that Christ has died for you PERSONALLY, to pay for your sin. That's all it takes.

It's not fancy, or difficult, but it is the reason for your existance at this moment; you have been allowed by God, today, another chance to be with Him forever, if you accept Christ today!
 

nkgupta80

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You were created for God's pleasure, to serve Him willingly
god indulges in pleasure? man...
 

Pogo Possum

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nkgupta80 said:
god indulges in pleasure? man...
Not carnal pleasure.

pleasure in the sense that to be pleasing to God, you obey Him, and love Him, as your rightful Ruler, King, and God.

It is the duty of every created being to ackowledge the rule of God, willingly.

and that is what pleases God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

those that reject Him, reject perfect love.
There is no sensible reason to reject Him.

but people do it, because they are wicked, and do not want to serve God.
They face the consequences for that choice-
eternal suffering in the lake of fire for rejecting the perfect love of God.

It is so unneccessary. there is no 'downside' to coming to God by faith in Christ. None at all.
 

nkgupta80

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so why does he need pleasure? why does he need to be pleased when He is the representation of eternal bliss and perfection.
 

nkgupta80

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why were we created.... did he feel lonely? Can a god even feel like human's feel?
 

Pogo Possum

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nkgupta80 said:
so why does he need pleasure? why does he need to be pleased when He is the representation of eternal bliss and perfection.
he doesn't "need" pleasure.

He chose to create everything, for His own reasons.
He created man, for fellowship. The full extent of that, is that He wanted to created beings capable of returning His love.

We have to remember that God is an infinite being, and we cannot fully understand Him until the end of the age. And certainly, those who reject Christ will never understand God.


He created man for His own reasons.
And what is important is that man confess his sin, repent, and come to Christ.
then there is nothing seperating that man from God, and when this age ends, or that man dies, he will be with God, as God intended in the first place, before Adam and Eve blew it.
 

Pogo Possum

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nkgupta80 said:
why were we created.... did he feel lonely? Can a god even feel like human's feel?

Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh.
Note that the person of God the Son existed from the beginning.

And Christ was tempted in all the ways that we are, and He did not sin.
Paul writes that He was in all things, like we are.

He knows what we are like.
And God cannot feel "lonely", because He is outside of the realm of 'time'.

In other words, His 'present' is the past, the present and the future at the same time.

So in fact, God is already surrounded by those who will choose Him in this world, in the past present and future.

God sees the year 500 BC the year 30 AD and 2005
all at the same moment, as it is the present.

people try sometimes to equate God's existance with what we know in this world. You can't do that. God existed before TIME, or any physical laws existed. We cannot comprehend that, but it is true.
 

nkgupta80

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yet you are doing it at this point. You are saying that he wants someone to return his love, when in essence (if he was infinite) he should be everything and everyone.
 
Y

y not peace?

my purpse is to promote the PEACE of Jesus CHrist to the world. PEACE IS THE ONLY WAY.
 
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Why would God allow us to be born in sin? Isn't that sadistic? He is actually going to allow some people to miss his word, and recieve eternal damnation?

Doesn't sound very compassionate to me...

Why didn't god just strike down the sinners? Why kill his son? Why would you do that? By letting your son be killed how did that save humanity?

And why would god create me just so that I can recieve the gospel of Jesus Christ? And that's it. Why not just make spiritual entities? Why waste your time with biological creatures that have to live in the physical world, before reaching heaven, when you could just create spiritual beings, to reside with you in heaven in the first place?

Seems rather illogical to me, considering that God created the universe, and the laws of physics, which demonstrates a being of reasoning and logic. But when it comes to mankind, the whole logic that god shows in nature suddenly goes out the window.

So we have free will, but why create beings that have free will, and can therefore question, and deny your existance? All seems very odd to me.
 

nkgupta80

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^the answer to these illogicalities is always "we cannot understand god's ways"....
 

Dezaad

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Pogo Possum said:
You were created for God's pleasure, to serve Him willingly
Pogo Possum said:
he doesn't "need" pleasure.

He chose to create everything, for His own reasons.
He created man, for fellowship. The full extent of that, is that He wanted to created beings capable of returning His love.
The proper skeptical response is the same whether you say he created us for "his pleasure" or say he created us "for is own reasons". You see, Christians have made their God too self-sufficient, that is, too powerful. Because of this, they are left no room to give him a 'desire attribute'. If God did not desire (for whatever reason) to create man, why did he?

This leaves you with only two options. Weaken your God to allow for desire. He cannot be completely self sufficient and complete. Or... Make all things are a part of God's nature. Essentially, all the Universe IS God, along with everything in it. God is THE organism, so to speak. We are God's mitochondria or whatever. This option probably weakens God as well, since God would not be infinitely powerful. But, it does transform the motivation from God's desire to something more like God's natural process. Like Breathing.
 
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nkgupta80 said:
^the answer to these illogicalities is always "we cannot understand god's ways"....

I have never bought that answer......

I am told by creationists that there is pattern and elegance in the design of things in nature. Indicating a being with intelligence and reason.

Now if God created logical order, and reasoning in nature. I.e the laws of physics, why does it suddenly disappear with humanity?

Now to say that we cannot understand God's ways is a weak theological answer. If he is an intelligent being then, there should be reasoning and logic, and therefore we should be able to understand his ways.

If humans are created in the image of God, and people have the power of reason and logic, then so must God. Therefore there has to be some explanation for the contradictory nature of God's dealings with mankind.

So if I am born in sin, I think it is my right to be able to ask my creator why I am born in sin, and get a rational answer. Don't you?
 

Pogo Possum

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Australianlibertarian said:
Why would God allow us to be born in sin? Isn't that sadistic? He is actually going to allow some people to miss his word, and recieve eternal damnation?
men are born into sin because God allows man to have a choice.
God also never does anything in vain. When Adam and Eve fell, the sin nature was passed on to the descendants.

But that does not end the purpose of God. He knew they would disobey, and allowed it. He knows that people would then be born in sin, and He allows that too.

but the end purpose is to have willing followers. This is possible, because of FAITH. Abraham saw himself as a sinner, and trusted in God to make a way out of that sin. Abraham knew it was God that justified, not man.

And nowadays, Christ has been revealed to us directly as that 'way'.
So no one has to go to hell, unless they insist on it. the way out existed from the beginning, faith in God. And that pinnacle of that faith is to see that JESUS [God in the flesh] paid the sin debt of us on the cross. He could do that, because He had no sin nature, and also was fully God.

So every person can have their sin forgiven, and this is what God desires.
It is FREE. All a person has to do is put their FAITH in GOD, in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross to pay for sin.

Every person knows they are a sinner. And every person knows that God exists. the wicked will not admit that, and the wicked will not accept the free mercy. So the only ones that are condemned are the ones that choose to be condemned. Those that accept [choose] to let GOD show mercy, get mercy. But the condition is to make a hearfelt admission to being a sinner, and seeing that Jesus is indeed the payment for sin.

Doesn't sound very compassionate to me...
It's very compassionate. He could have nuked Adam and Eve right after they sinned. He did not. He did not accept their 'fig leaf covering' either. God killed and animal, shedding innocent blood to cover the wicked [Adam and Eve]. The plan for salvation was there from the beginning.

And Jesus did die on the cross for sinners. God has done His part, to redeem man. He showed His mercy, love, and compassion in that He died for us while we were still sinners. How will you respond to that love?

If you reject that kind of love, do you not DESERVE condemnation?
Would you reject someone that covers your sin, to give you eternal life?
Only a madman would do that. But the wicked choose it, and thereby choose their own condemnation, for no reason.
Why didn't god just strike down the sinners? Why kill his son? Why would you do that? By letting your son be killed how did that save humanity?
answered above.
God will strike down the sinners. those that reject His love and mercy will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity.
Jesus had to be the one to pay for sin. He had no sin of His own, so He is capable of paying for others. He is capable of paying for all sin, because He is God, the Infinite One. He took on all sin, and paid for it. He was seperated from God the Father, to satisfy the justice of God. the full fury and wrath of God the Father against sin, fell on Jesus.

And the salvation of humanity is not 'automatic'. It requires that a person:
confess to being a hopeless sinner
repent
accept Christ's payment on the cross.
believe by faith that God has forgiven you.

And why would god create me just so that I can recieve the gospel of Jesus Christ? And that's it. Why not just make spiritual entities? Why waste your time with biological creatures that have to live in the physical world, before reaching heaven, when you could just create spiritual beings, to reside with you in heaven in the first place?
Quite simply, to prove His power. And God can do what He wants, with what He wants, and how He wants to do it.
He did make spiritual entities at the start. Satan and some of the others fell.
they are not redeemable. They cannot change.

God created man with [body soul spirit] so that man is a testable, and redeemable being. The spirit in fallen man is DEAD. That does not mean it does not exist-- it is DEAD. The Spirit is the part of a human existance that can relate to God.

However, God can make that spirit alive again, if a way is made to pay for the sin of the man. So mans fall did not override the grace of God.
But God does allow man to choose. Man can accept Christ, or stay spiritually dead.

Man is changeable while in this world. A non saved, lost person can be redeemed. A spirit being like satan was already in the direct presence of God, and saw Him as He is. He still rebelled. So there is nothing left that God can do with fallen spirit beings. He could override their free will, but that would make them robots.

Now once men accept Christ, they have a LIVE spirit again.
This person has a condition, when they go to heaven of being dead first, but then alive, spiritually. Thus they can never fall. They were redeemed by the power of God, and nothing that God does can be undone.
They have the knowledge of what they were, and what they are now are.
They are VERY grateful that God would save them, while they were sinners.

And so God's master plan of willing servants, who will not rebel, is finished.

Seems rather illogical to me, considering that God created the universe, and the laws of physics, which demonstrates a being of reasoning and logic. But when it comes to mankind, the whole logic that god shows in nature suddenly goes out the window.
false. human logic goes out the window.
God's logic is always true.

Man cannot understand God, while man is a sinner.
This would be like expecting a computer with a broken hard drive to function properly, or diagnose itself. Can't happen. Because man is fallen in sin,
the FIX has to come external from 'fallen man'.

So don't try to understand God, you can't.
But you can understand that Jesus paid for sin on the cross, because God has decreed that this is the FIX for man, and His will cannot be defied.

so every man can respond to the gospel, and does.
Every man, upon hearing the gospel, either accepts it and comes to Christ, or he rejects it, and thus has made his choice.

So we have free will, but why create beings that have free will, and can therefore question, and deny your existance? All seems very odd to me.
God created man in His own image.
We are capable of independent thought. We have a free will to choose.
God did not want robot slaves, He wanted independent agents that willingly choose Him.

He validates that choice, by there being humans that choose both ways.
some choose Him, some choose hell.

He does not force either group. They freely choose their fate.
 

nkgupta80

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Quite simply, to prove His power
why would God ever want to prove his power. I mean that does point to a feeling of insecurity. Proof is ONLY needed for uncertainty. Is god uncertain of his power?
 

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Australianlibertarian said:
I have never bought that answer......

I am told by creationists that there is pattern and elegance in the design of things in nature. Indicating a being with intelligence and reason.

Now if God created logical order, and reasoning in nature. I.e the laws of physics, why does it suddenly disappear with humanity?

Now to say that we cannot understand God's ways is a weak theological answer. If he is an intelligent being then, there should be reasoning and logic, and therefore we should be able to understand his ways.

If humans are created in the image of God, and people have the power of reason and logic, then so must God. Therefore there has to be some explanation for the contradictory nature of God's dealings with mankind.

So if I am born in sin, I think it is my right to be able to ask my creator why I am born in sin, and get a rational answer. Don't you?
What 'logical order' is missing from humanity? Do you mean why did God create beings who are not 'perfect'?

You are not born of sin. This is a Christian concept, one which I do not accept. I also find it hard to imagine a God who would choose such a simple afterlife (heaven and hell). And how can God be merciful in the least if he sends us to hell for eternity? I also reject the idea of 'hell'. I have my own ideas of the afterlife, which are most similar to Buddhist ideas.
 

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nkgupta80 said:
why would God ever want to prove his power. I mean that does point to a feeling of insecurity. Proof is ONLY needed for uncertainty. Is god uncertain of his power?
I think he means god would 'prove His power' to us. God knows his power, but man obviously does not.
 

nkgupta80

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I think he means god would 'prove His power' to us. God knows his power, but man obviously does not.
why create us then....
 

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The reason we exist is becuase our forefathers had sex. We are here as disposable vehicles for our genes. Each of us is an insignificant spec in the evolution of helical molecules.
 

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if we are seperate from God, then God is a dictator.
Ever considered how in a dictatorship you have the free will to obey the dictator or suffer his wrath?
Doesnt really sound like free will to me.
So god presents us with a choice, obey him or suffer the consequences?


Some other thoughts;
If we are seperate from God, then God is a dictator.
If God is everything, then how can it require anything?
If We are part of God We came from all that which is.
If god is everything, then god would be that which caused me to be that which i am. So God can hardly 'judge' us.

But People believe what they can in relation to their best interests of survival and what will make it worth all the effort.

Life happened, via cause and effect. Life was not intended. there is nothing which we have to be. That is free will. Life has no meaning other than that which you have given it to exist.

So what is it that I intend to be?
Alive and able for as long as possible to experience what i can before all this is gone, and my body is done.

Which includes many, many milkshakes.
 
Y

y not peace?

Doesnt really sound like free will to me.
God gave us the power of thought and a set of rules to abide by that promote equality and peace (which is shown though his son). Its a CHOICE to follow them, but he reminds us that their is a punishment for not following. If people dont beilve in hell than why fear it...
 

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Pogo Possum said:
those that reject Him, reject perfect love.
There is no sensible reason to reject Him.
How about there is no empirical evidence that a god exists? That is more sensible than any faith.
 

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First you state this...
Pogo Possum said:
He chose to create everything, for His own reasons.
He created man, for fellowship.The full extent of that, is that He wanted to created beings capable of returning His love.
Then you state this...
Pogo Possum said:
And God cannot feel "lonely", because He is outside of the realm of 'time'.
Which is it?
 

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Pogo Possum said:
but people do it, because they are wicked, and do not want to serve God.They face the consequences for that choice-
eternal suffering in the lake of fire for rejecting the perfect love of God.
So this god is malevolent?
 
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