The reason for your existance

[Alex]

We have to remember that God is an infinite being, and we cannot fully understand Him until the end of the age. And certainly, those who reject Christ will never understand God.

This goes all ways. If a god is so powerful that we cannot understand it, then how do you know that you are not sinning? Maybe the things you believe to be good are really sins and vice versa. How do you know that a devil did not write some of The Bible to make people believe that they were doing a god's will, but in reality, they are sinning?

 

[y not peace?]

we no when we are sinning or not because gave us gifts: his word (the bible) and his son (the peace, the truth, and the way)

 

[nkgupta80]

What I wonder is that most religions say that God is all powerful and omniscient... then Why create us in such a way. You say that god created us to return his love... then why not make us in such a way that we can only return love. And why does this concept of sin exist. If it exists because of free will...is it really free will if we are banished to Hell for going against God's word? It' s like a dictator telling his subjects that they can exercise free will... but when his people go against him, he executes them.

 

[Rowan]

if you say the bible is a gift, then why have not all people been united because of it?

if you say that its because they have not understood it properly, then why have they not?

if you say its because people are wicked, but they have a choice, why would
we be 'created, within Gods own image', to have wickedness?


Dictatorships have burned the thoughts of great men for years. Considering the church does not want you to read certain books (Conversations With God being one) have you ever thought why?
For instance how many Christians know that Satanism and Paganism does not worship the devil, or believe in one?, or that they in fact support life?
They are not neccesarily better ways to live lifes, but they do exist as alternatives to some people.

At the time i guess Christianity civilised some people, but that was through fear and imposing Rules and not actual understanding.

Do Christians even know why doing 'good' deeds are good, other than having been told by a preacher?. Realise why it is not in your best interests to abuse your body, and you realise the only hell is a real one as you struggle with the consequences.
All the Bible was was guidelines written by people who thought that other people needed to be controlled. perhaps for good reason, back then, but were more aware these days.

I dont mean to badger Christian Mentality, i know this is a debate on universal reason for existence, and not just people who believe in God.

And all things considered perhaps the idea of the all knowing God which will understand you is too comforting to let go of, considering the altenative.

 

[Pogo Possum]

How about there is no empirical evidence that a god exists? That is more sensible than any faith.

the evidence is all around you.

in the physical world, it is impossible to make elements heavier than iron.
[Atomic number 26].

'scientists' would tell you that these elements are made by supernovas, when a neutron source saturates the iron with lots of neutrons, which then forms these heavy elements like Uranium.

But go and do a little research. I went to nuclear power school, in the Navy.
what they say is not possible.

1. you have no neutron source. The iron core of a dead star cannot be changed at the atomic level. You cannot remove a neutron from and iron atom no matter how much energy you apply to do that.

2. even if you had a fantastic neutron source, there is the matter of "microscopic cross section" [greek letter Mu]. It is the measure of the property of an atom to absorb a particular neutron. Most elements have them in the range of the 1 in 100,000 range. Some have almost no chance to absorb neutrons, like the heavier isotopes of Hafnium.

So to create ONE Uranium atom, you start with Iron, and then try shooting neutrons. After you shoot perhaps 200,000 you have now Iron 60, which decays to Cobalt 60. Now to get to Uranium 238, you have to make 178 more steps, each with at BEST a chance of 1 in 100,000 of sticking a neutron.

so the neutrons needed to create one Uranium is (100,000)^178

assuming that there were no instant decay isotopes along the way.

But, there ARE instant decay isotopes along the way.

When you start trying it out, it can't be done.

Some speculate that the iron core collapses into a mass of degenerate neutrons to form the neutron source.

Again, you have the same problem. the neutrons cannot remain neutrons once they leave the core, and that state. When you smash the electrons into the protons, to make degenerate neutrons, you are missing the gamma ray component, and the antineutrino. so it is like putting things together with no glue. It won't stick, once outside the massive gravity.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Every single person can see the power and truth of God in creation.
You prove it yourself right here on this thread. You claim there is no God, yet you come on this thread to argue the point. A person does not argue about something they know is not true.

For example, would I go argue with nutcases that think little green men live on mars? Of course not. I know there aren't any there. There is no point to arguing with someone who believes something that is not true.

Secondly, look at any culture of man. all worship something.
the mere fact that men look external to their own existance prove the spiritual dimension. Otherwise, no worship anywhere would have started ever, and every culture would behave according to human 'logic'.

No, Jesus Christ did come to the earth, and was God manifested in the flesh.
You have heard the truth, and no matter what you decide to do with Jesus, you are accountable now that you have heard.

 

[Pogo Possum]

I see a lot of people on this thread asking all sorts of questions.

Here is the sum answer:

1. God created man, in His own image. Adam and Eve were innocent at that time, but untested.
2. Eve was deceived by satan, but Adam CHOSE to rebel against God, to be with Eve. They both were sinners at that point, and certain to die.
3. They died spiritually, immediately. They had no fellowship with God, and stupidly went and tried to hide from Him, and even more stupid, made fig leaves to cover their nakedness.
a. you cannot hide from God. this proves their fallen nature
b. to cover nakedness is only needed if someone is lusting after you-- which agains proves their depraved state.
4. God told Adam and Eve that they would return to dust. But he showed mercy, by killing an INNOCENT ANIMAL to cover them. He did not carry out the sentence of death immediately.
a. God showed that He still was a God of love and mercy
b. God showed that it takes innocent blood to pay for sin, not mans 'fig leaves' works of himself
c. God showed, in the Word that Adam [and later Abel] accepted God's way of fellowship, by sacrifice, of innocent blood of an animal.

4. SIN is why man cannot perceive God. those that are in rebellion to God right now, here in 2005, do the same thing as Adam. They 'hide' from God, and then cover themselves with all sorts of self efforts to deny that they are indeed naked. This is how depraved the sinner mind is. everything is backwards.

5. God is not to blame for anyone's sin. Every single person can choose to obey Him, or not. He does not force them either way.
6. GOD has provided a way for man to regain what was lost, in that man can leave sin behind, by accepting Christ as payment on the cross for sin.
Until a person accepts Christ, their sin remains, they continue to 'hide' [in their own mind], and continue to do self-efforts to 'not be naked'.

Yet the whole time, it is utterly stupid. God cannot be fooled, and He will judge every person that rejects His love.
God is not an ogre. He did send Jesus on the cross, to give man a chance.
so when you reject that chance, you make your choice.

What husband would not take a bullet for his wife? He does that out of love.
What parent would not take a bullet, to save their child? God did that on the cross.

You are a sinner, because you choose to sin. So am I.
but I accept His love, and am forgiven by accepting Christ.
you can too.

 

[nkgupta80]

that didn't answer any questions.... again everything you said suggested taht god isn't all powerful but is constricted by rules.

Example... Adam and Eve were innocent but Satan decieved them. Why the hell would he let satan into his paradise for Adam and Eve....

 

[kal-el]

I see a lot of people on this thread asking all sorts of questions.

Here is the sum answer:

1. God created man, in His own image. Adam and Eve were innocent at that time, but untested.
2. Eve was deceived by satan, but Adam CHOSE to rebel against God, to be with Eve. They both were sinners at that point, and certain to die.
3. They died spiritually, immediately. They had no fellowship with God, and stupidly went and tried to hide from Him, and even more stupid, made fig leaves to cover their nakedness.
a. you cannot hide from God. this proves their fallen nature
b. to cover nakedness is only needed if someone is lusting after you-- which agains proves their depraved state.
4. God told Adam and Eve that they would return to dust. But he showed mercy, by killing an INNOCENT ANIMAL to cover them. He did not carry out the sentence of death immediately.
a. God showed that He still was a God of love and mercy
b. God showed that it takes innocent blood to pay for sin, not mans 'fig leaves' works of himself
c. God showed, in the Word that Adam [and later Abel] accepted God's way of fellowship, by sacrifice, of innocent blood of an animal.

4. SIN is why man cannot perceive God. those that are in rebellion to God right now, here in 2005, do the same thing as Adam. They 'hide' from God, and then cover themselves with all sorts of self efforts to deny that they are indeed naked. This is how depraved the sinner mind is. everything is backwards.

5. God is not to blame for anyone's sin. Every single person can choose to obey Him, or not. He does not force them either way.
6. GOD has provided a way for man to regain what was lost, in that man can leave sin behind, by accepting Christ as payment on the cross for sin.
Until a person accepts Christ, their sin remains, they continue to 'hide' [in their own mind], and continue to do self-efforts to 'not be naked'.

Yet the whole time, it is utterly stupid. God cannot be fooled, and He will judge every person that rejects His love.
God is not an ogre. He did send Jesus on the cross, to give man a chance.
so when you reject that chance, you make your choice.

What husband would not take a bullet for his wife? He does that out of love.
What parent would not take a bullet, to save their child? God did that on the cross.

You are a sinner, because you choose to sin. So am I.
but I accept His love, and am forgiven by accepting Christ.
you can too.

First of all, sins are simply just different concepts of morality and lifestyle. Remember, the Bible was written by man. How in this age of laptop computers, dvds, digital television, and cures for age-old illnesses, can one believe in a "supernatural god"? I think it's exactly like believing in "Santa Clause." This is just a dark-ages myth.

 

[nkgupta80]

but some people take it all too literally... and thus bring themselves to believe in the literal biblical creationism, and other blatantly stupid things. There are even Christians who are, even at this time, geocentrics. (they argue something through the theory of relative).

 

[Alex]

the evidence is all around you.

This is not an exclusive arguement for a god. I could say aliens put everything here, look around you.

in the physical world, it is impossible to make elements heavier than iron.
[Atomic number 26].

'scientists' would tell you that these elements are made by supernovas, when a neutron source saturates the iron with lots of neutrons, which then forms these heavy elements like Uranium.

But go and do a little research. I went to nuclear power school, in the Navy.
what they say is not possible.

1. you have no neutron source. The iron core of a dead star cannot be changed at the atomic level. You cannot remove a neutron from and iron atom no matter how much energy you apply to do that.

2. even if you had a fantastic neutron source, there is the matter of "microscopic cross section" [greek letter Mu]. It is the measure of the property of an atom to absorb a particular neutron. Most elements have them in the range of the 1 in 100,000 range. Some have almost no chance to absorb neutrons, like the heavier isotopes of Hafnium.

So to create ONE Uranium atom, you start with Iron, and then try shooting neutrons. After you shoot perhaps 200,000 you have now Iron 60, which decays to Cobalt 60. Now to get to Uranium 238, you have to make 178 more steps, each with at BEST a chance of 1 in 100,000 of sticking a neutron.

so the neutrons needed to create one Uranium is (100,000)^178

assuming that there were no instant decay isotopes along the way.

But, there ARE instant decay isotopes along the way.

When you start trying it out, it can't be done.

Some speculate that the iron core collapses into a mass of degenerate neutrons to form the neutron source.

Again, you have the same problem. the neutrons cannot remain neutrons once they leave the core, and that state. When you smash the electrons into the protons, to make degenerate neutrons, you are missing the gamma ray component, and the antineutrino. so it is like putting things together with no glue. It won't stick, once outside the massive gravity.

This does not prove the existence of a god.

Every single person can see the power and truth of God in creation.
You prove it yourself right here on this thread. You claim there is no God, yet you come on this thread to argue the point. A person does not argue about something they know is not true.

For example, would I go argue with nutcases that think little green men live on mars? Of course not. I know there aren't any there. There is no point to arguing with someone who believes something that is not true.

The opposite is true. If your faith in a god is right, there is no reason to argue it. Your little green men point is flawed. We know from empirical evidence that little green men do not exist on Mars. There is no empirical evidence of a god.

Secondly, look at any culture of man. all worship something.
the mere fact that men look external to their own existance prove the spiritual dimension. Otherwise, no worship anywhere would have started ever, and every culture would behave according to human 'logic'.

It proves nothing. People want a spiritual dimension because they fear what they do not know. They want to believe that there is something after life. This is fear. They need easy answers to question about things around them. It is easy to state that "because god made it that way" than it is to learn the truth. This is because of mental laziness. People believe in a god because it is only human nature to desire unconditional love all the time. When that love is not fulfilled in reality, people turn to a spiritual love and it fills the void. This is because of loneliness.

No, Jesus Christ did come to the earth, and was God manifested in the flesh.
You have heard the truth, and no matter what you decide to do with Jesus, you are accountable now that you have heard.

Prove this.

 

[kal-el]

Organized religion is nothing more than sanctioned brainwashing. A belief in a "supernatural" God who created it all in one week is the tell tail sign of a primitive mind. How many wars are waged in the name of "God?"

Man needs spirituality, not a mythological "Santa Clause", or "God."
Buddhism is an athiest religion, and is basically about personal development and feeling connected to everything. You don't see Buddhists out starting "wars."

I think most people need to "wake-up" and let go of their medievil beliefs. Science and technology are our future. Look at the discoveries in biology, genetics, ecology, astronomy, and neurology. It is these same "medevil beliefs" that come from a past when it is taught that the Earth was flat and supported by giants at the center of the universe, that intelligence was located in the stomach, and that we had to fear a "devil" and adore a white-bearded "God" sitting in a cloud. As long as people were kept ignorant by forbidding them science, and forcing an unquestioned belief in the Bible and pedophile priests, then people could be duped by these fairy stories. People could be made to accept it as their religion, which pretended to explain what it could'nt explain, usually through "Divine mysteries." Then, there was no need for explanation. But now that everything can be made understandable through science, and now that the lies and crimes of the old religions become clear, we can no longer be fooled by these stupid fairy tales.

 

[Thinker]

the evidence is all around you. in the physical world,
it is impossible to make elements heavier than iron.
[Atomic number 26].

'scientists' would tell you that these elements are made by supernovas, when a neutron source saturates the iron with lots of neutrons, which then forms these heavy elements like Uranium.

But go and do a little research. I went to nuclear power school, in the Navy.
what they say is not possible.

It sounds like you are saying you simply disbelieve what you were told at
school. So much for your research then.

You are free to believe or not believe whatever you like, but few people who
have actually studied these things in great detail over a very long time would
agree with you.

Try looking here for a simple starter: http://www.tufts.edu/as/wright_center/cosmic_evolution/docs/text/text_stel_6.html

 

[Pogo Possum]

you misunderstood my post.

I agree with what I learned in school, about nuclear power.
I have worked in a nuclear power plant.

We learned nuclear physics and the principles behind fission, and fusion.

And my point is that what the scientists say about supernovas is not possible.
You can't get around basic physics.

You cannot produce neutrons from an iron core star,
and even if you had a huge neutron source, you can't add enough neutrons to iron to get very far up the scale.

It's a geometric requirement as you progress up atomic numbers.

~~~~~~~~~~~

but 'science' is not the only thing that shows that God has created the world.
the spiritual condition of man proves it too.

Men are sinners, and prove it all the time.
However, once in a while a person comes to Christ and then there is a DRASTIC change in them, where they live for the Lord.

the apostles went from being scared rabbits, to powerful ministers
on the day of pentecost. what happened? What changed them?

would they suddenly get courage over a dead body?
Or if one takes the truth as Jesus being literally resurrected, and the Son of God- then it all makes perfect sense.

the apostles suddenly were courageous
people's lives were changed
the romans could not produce a "body" to discredit Christians
Christianity actually succeeded despite enormous persecution

God is the truth.
And all men know it, but most reject it.
What is so ironic is that fighting God is suicidal, yet men do it.
It is amazing that sin has such power to utterly corrupt the mind of a person, to where they would fight a battle that cannot be won, and cannot achieve any gain whatsoever.

And even more amazing, is that Jesus came and died for these same rebellious foolish people. I can't grasp that. That amazes me.

 

[nkgupta80]

the evidence is all around you. in the physical world,
it is impossible to make elements heavier than iron.
[Atomic number 26].

'scientists' would tell you that these elements are made by supernovas, when a neutron source saturates the iron with lots of neutrons, which then forms these heavy elements like Uranium.

But go and do a little research. I went to nuclear power school, in the Navy.
what they say is not possible.

well when these astronomers study the enormous nuclear reactions occuring in supernovas, they've detected the formation of much heavier elements through the use of spectroscopy and other methods...so you must be rusty on your nuclear physics. I am sure that it may be impossible in man-made nuclear reactions, but we're talkin about stars 10 times the size of our sun exploding....really wierd stuff happens in such phenomena...

 

[Thinker]

I agree with what I learned in school, about nuclear
power. I have worked in a nuclear power plant.

I see. So a school course gave you a better understanding of nuclear physics
than people who have spent their lives working in the field? I have worked in
a hospital. Would you let me do brain surgery on you? I was a porter for a
few months during my university holidays.

Let's weight the evidence: On one side, you have had a school course; you
use that to claim everyone with better qualifications is wrong about the
creation of heavy elements; you obviously do not believe any of the
supporting scientific evidence to the contrary.

On the other side, you offer no alternative that is based on observation or
reason; you believe in fairy stories about a mythical deity for which there is
zero evidence.

The conclusion is clear.

 

[Pogo Possum]

I see. So a school course gave you a better understanding of nuclear physics
than people who have spent their lives working in the field? I have worked in
a hospital. Would you let me do brain surgery on you? I was a porter for a
few months during my university holidays.

Let's weight the evidence: On one side, you have had a school course; you
use that to claim everyone with better qualifications is wrong about the
creation of heavy elements; you obviously do not believe any of the
supporting scientific evidence to the contrary.

On the other side, you offer no alternative that is based on observation or
reason; you believe in fairy stories about a mythical deity for which there is
zero evidence.

The conclusion is clear.

you aren't listening.

It's not possible to make elements heavier than iron with 'neutron absorbtion',
all the way up to Uranium. This is very simple nuclear physics. The laws of physics are the same, whether on earth, or somewhere else.

you cannot get around the basics.
The very reason that iron will not fuse is the same reason you can't create heavier elements with neutrons, to any degree.

Atoms are not just slapped together. you have to have the RIGHT parts at the RIGHT time to get them put together.

This is not very complicated to understand, if you go and start studying this stuff and see it for yourself.

1. there is no neutron source from and iron core star.
the atoms are all iron 59 and various isotopes.

2. any neutrons formed by smashing the electrons into the protons in an iron core star are not stable neutrons.

the neutron decay equation is ALWAYS:

N -> P + e- + Antineutrino + one or more gammas

so when you try to smash the electron into the proton, you are missing some mass. It won't stick.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


And there is observation all around you to point to God, including your own conscience. Romans 1 makes it very clear that God has revealed His Godhood from the beginning, and man being a sinner, proves it.

Man knows what sin is, and some yearn to not sin. But they do anyway.
Man has a conscience. He knows what is right and wrong, because it is imprinted in him when he was created by God. Some choose to sear over their conscience, and refuse Jesus to the end. and then they end up in the lake of fire.

another example of the folly of 'evolution' is the digital code of the human genome. It is simply 4 nucleotides arranged in a pattern.

It is essentially a computer program, written with nucleotides instead of 1's and 0's like binary is.

And we know that a binary program does not 'evolve'. It has to be written by a person. So does a FAR MORE COMPLICATED dna sequence.

it's funny. take a DNA molecule, and put in a mistake or two.
It won't work. The molecule will not produce a person.

It is impossible for such a molecule to be assembled by chance.
Sit down sometime and calculate the odds that a DNA could assemble by chance. It is HIGHER than 10^50 to 1 AGAINST!!

 

[MrFungus420]

And there is observation all around you to point to God, including your own conscience. Romans 1 makes it very clear that God has revealed His Godhood from the beginning, and man being a sinner, proves it.

Man knows what sin is, and some yearn to not sin. But they do anyway.
Man has a conscience. He knows what is right and wrong, because it is imprinted in him when he was created by God. Some choose to sear over their conscience, and refuse Jesus to the end. and then they end up in the lake of fire.

another example of the folly of 'evolution' is the digital code of the human genome. It is simply 4 nucleotides arranged in a pattern.

It is essentially a computer program, written with nucleotides instead of 1's and 0's like binary is.

And we know that a binary program does not 'evolve'. It has to be written by a person. So does a FAR MORE COMPLICATED dna sequence.

it's funny. take a DNA molecule, and put in a mistake or two.
It won't work. The molecule will not produce a person.

It is impossible for such a molecule to be assembled by chance.
Sit down sometime and calculate the odds that a DNA could assemble by chance. It is HIGHER than 10^50 to 1 AGAINST!!

This is simply an argument from incredulity. You don't see how it could happen, therefore, it must have been god. It's the same reason that people used to think that lightning was caused by gods, they couldn't understand how it came about.

It is essentially arrogance. Since you don't know, it is not possible for it to have happened without the intervention of a god.

And, if you want to talk possibilities, what are the odds against some being that exists outside of time and space?

 

[Thinker]

you aren't listening.

You are the one who is not listening. What gives you with your school course
more credibility than the vast majority of physicists working in the field?
Instead of throwing out absolute statements with no supporting evidence and
mixing in a few sound bites (in a highly unscientific fashion), why not simply
reference some properly reviewed scientific papers that support your claim? If
your "proof" is as trivially simple as you imply, I'm sure you would convince
everybody.

Later you mention observation. Here's one: the direct observation of
short-lived radioactive elements such as Cobalt 56 in supernova 1987A
provides evidence of the neutron absorption mechanism that you believe
can't exist.

<mystic nonsense ignored>

another example of the folly of 'evolution' is the digital code of the human genome. It is simply 4 nucleotides arranged in a pattern.

Your point? It's a "code".

It is essentially a computer program, written with nucleotides instead
of 1's and 0's like binary is.

Not it isn't. Calling it a program would be like calling a jelly mould a program.

And we know that a binary program does not 'evolve'

You are assuming that, but I'll let you make the assumption and observe
that very few programs are self-replicating and evolution requires replication.

It has to be written by a person.

OK

So does a FAR MORE COMPLICATED dna sequence.

Non-sequitur. Please explain the connection between a non-reproducing
binary program and a reproducing molecule.

take a DNA molecule, and put in a mistake or two.
It won't work. The molecule will not produce a person.

This is either another example of your woolly thinking or a ploy to
allow you to wriggle out of problems. To be clear, I'll agree that a molecule of DNA
cannot produce a person; you need several of them. I assume you are talking
about the complete set of DNA molecules needed to produce humans.

I can easily refute your claim by counter example:

You claim "a mistake or two" in DNA "will not produce a person."

Some humans have Hailey-Hailey disease or Sickle Cell Anemia. I'm sure
you would be happy to classify a human with one of these problems as a
"person".

A small error in the DNA code for a gene on chromosome number 3 (one of
the 46 chromosomes that we all have) has been shown to cause
Hailey-Hailey disease.

Sickle Cell Anemia is a trait due to a change in one nucleotide in the DNA
sequence that leads to a change in one amino acid that changes how the
hemoglobin protein folds

So, here we have examples of persons with a "mistake or two" in their DNA,
and neither of these mistakes prevents the people with them from reproducing.

Your claim is false.

It is impossible for such a molecule to be assembled by chance.

Not impossible, just extremely unlikely, but who claimed that DNA was
assembled purely by chance? The only group of people I know who make
that claim is creationists. Before you try knocking evolution with spurious
arguments like these, you should learn what it actually involves.

 

[kal-el]

This is simply an argument from incredulity. You don't see how it could happen, therefore, it must have been god. It's the same reason that people used to think that lightning was caused by gods, they couldn't understand how it came about.

It is essentially arrogance. Since you don't know, it is not possible for it to have happened without the intervention of a god.

And, if you want to talk possibilities, what are the odds against some being that exists outside of time and space?

I totally agree. We are still in our infancy. In this day and age, how can one belive in a bearded god, sitting in a cloud, hurling thunderbolts at bystanders, and a yellow-eyed, horny devil, sitting in a burning abyss, plucking up sinners with a pitchfork. This is a dark-ages myth that we were "spoonfed" into excepting as the truth. Now that science can almost solve the "divine" mysteries, the old texts are brought to a light in a complety different way.

 

[leejosepho]

... how can one belive in a bearded god, sitting in a cloud, hurling thunderbolts at bystanders, and a yellow-eyed, horny devil, sitting in a burning abyss, plucking up sinners with a pitchfork.

Personally, I cannot, and because I have learned the truths of those matters:

YHWH is Spirit;
Lucifer is beautiful to look upon;
Hell is not yet open for business.

 

[Thinker]

Personally, I cannot, and because I have learned the truths of those matters:

YHWH is Spirit;
Lucifer is beautiful to look upon;
Hell is not yet open for business.

It might provoke less unfavourable response if bald claims of knowing the "truth"
were tempered and presented more accurately as "I believe the following to be
true:".

 

[leejosepho]

It might provoke less unfavourable response if bald claims of knowing the "truth" were tempered and presented more accurately as "I believe the following to be true:".

Yes, possibly so, but anything even remotely sounding like "I merely believe ..."

... as if all beliefs are equally possible or that nobody anywhere really knows for sure ...

... sounds so wimpy to me, and (with a smile here):

Who really gives a rat's patootie what I might merely happen to believe anyway, eh?!

But, maybe I do not actually know the truth about that ... :shock:

 

[kal-el]

Personally, I cannot, and because I have learned the truths of those matters:

YHWH is Spirit;
Lucifer is beautiful to look upon;
Hell is not yet open for business.

Please elaborate? What is YHWH?

 

[leejosepho]

Please elaborate? What is YHWH?

In the context I had written that, YHWH is a "Who": The One who created us, and whose name is definitely not "God".

I do not know how to insert a graphic here to show you the Hebrew letters, but "YHWH" (or possibly "YHVH") is an English-letter rendering of The Creator's name, but many people today do not know that, and at least in part because "HaShem" (The Name) was removed and replaced with "The Lord" when the King James Version of Scripture was made.

 

[gdalton]

No one will know the real "truth" untill they die, so everyone will eventualy be able to say, without a doubt, if creationism is real or not we just won't be able to argue about it anymore.:mrgreen: