The Problem With the America Police System: pt2

[PeacefulWarrior]

1. This constant, somebody called something in. bullshit. If a person calls in a gun or something else potentially lethal or abusive... they should have to give their names and have it verified on the spot by the Operator. If it turns out that the call was totally bogus the caller should be fined or jailed.

2. The Operators need to also stop embellishing. If a person calls in and says it looks like a person is tampering with a car then they should get fined or fired if they pass along to the cops that a person IS tampering with a car. The cops come in with a totally different set of expectations.

3. Cops need to be trained on the 1st Amendment. Far too many times they have no idea what the 1st Amendment means or they think that their policies or city laws over-rule the 1st Amendment. What kind of crazy uneducated bullshit are we accepting here?

More to come in prt3

Different day....same cop hate.

Thanks a TON for all you do Officers! All decent and reasonable people support you! KUDOS!!!

 

[Drowning Man]

What part of "the law" did they not follow?

Detaining and searching someone without reasonable suspicion of a crime.

 

[bomberfox]

1. This constant, somebody called something in. bullshit. If a person calls in a gun or something else potentially lethal or abusive... they should have to give their names and have it verified on the spot by the Operator. If it turns out that the call was totally bogus the caller should be fined or jailed.

2. The Operators need to also stop embellishing. If a person calls in and says it looks like a person is tampering with a car then they should get fined or fired if they pass along to the cops that a person IS tampering with a car. The cops come in with a totally different set of expectations.

3. Cops need to be trained on the 1st Amendment. Far too many times they have no idea what the 1st Amendment means or they think that their policies or city laws over-rule the 1st Amendment. What kind of crazy uneducated bullshit are we accepting here?

More to come in prt3

Swatting should also incur heavier penalties including jailtime.

 

[Drowning Man]

And of course, they can restrain those who pose possible threats.

More than just “possible”. All they had was a guy that sort of matched the description, walking to his car who may be carrying a gun, which is perfectly legal.

 

[code1211]

Because of video. If it had not been for that, they would have walked. And even with the video, it took an outcry to lead to justice.

There is a tendency in the US to race to conclusions.

Kyle Rittenhouse was arrested and overcharged, actually wrongly charged, due to the haste to make an arrest.

The proper speed to make the sort of decisions made in arrests is likely in a range between these two examples.

Apparent in BOTH cases is the impact of the public and the perception of the public mood by the authorities.

I'm not sure that the public mood has a place in our law, but it seems to rise in our law at every level from a traffic violation enforcement to SCOTUS Decisions.

The problem with letting people have a voice in decisions is that people are people. When people are deemed to be too perfect, we have a tendency to do bad things to them.

 

[bomberfox]

Also cops need to be trained better in identifying and assessing threats as well as maintaining a positive community presence. Like if a black guy is constantly viewed with suspicion and has to hitch a ride with a white friend to get through town, theres something wrong.

 

[bomberfox]

They didn't follow the law. They are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. Following and enforcing the law is literally their job.

Law enforcement having to follow the law? Why thats genius!

 

[Peacenik]

There is a tendency in the US to race to conclusions.

Kyle Rittenhouse was arrested and overcharged, actually wrongly charged, due to the haste to make an arrest.

The proper speed to make the sort of decisions made in arrests is likely in a range between these two examples.

Apparent in BOTH cases is the impact of the public and the perception of the public mood by the authorities.

I'm not sure that the public mood has a place in our law, but it seems to rise in our law at every level from a traffic violation enforcement to SCOTUS Decisions.

The problem with letting people have a voice in decisions is that people are people. When people are deemed to be too perfect, we have a tendency to do bad things to them.

The Rittenhouse arrest was appropriate. There were admitted shootings. It was not clear it was self defense. It appeared he went hunting for it. He got his day in court. It was a court matter. The State had a legitimate case. Is there a case for wrongful arrest?That question is best left up to the legal system. I don't see Rittenhouse suing for it.

I am perplexed by your last sentence. Where is the reasoning to do bad things to good people? That doesn't follow logic. Someone who is good, and does good things for others and society should not logically be rewarded for that by having bad things done to them.

 

[Drowning Man]

As citizens, if we find ourselves in a situation with the cops as they arrive at a scene to which they have been called, it is OUR duty to comply with their requests and follow their instructions.

Er...no. It is our duty to comply with their LAWFUL ORDERS. We have no legal duty to follow requests or instructions.

And lawful orders are defined narrowly. Just because a cop orders something, doesn't make it a lawful order.

 

[code1211]

I believe I already answered that. The 911 operator should have asked a simple question. OK...so what is this person with a gun doing? If the answer is shopping, or sitting in his car minding their own business...then the cops should not respond.

The point is this: When the cops respond, they respond by appearing in person at the scene.

Whether the 911 operator considers the threat to be real , big or small, the threat was STILL called in.

You seem to be saying the police should not respond if the threat is deemed to be small or inaccurately stated.

I don't understand the triage system you seem to think should be employed to either respond to or ignore the calls as they come in.

Any call could result in the assassination of the cops who are sent and who respond. Any caution resulting from this obvious reality seems to be pretty well justified.

 

[code1211]

I just dont even know if you HEAR yourself.

I don't know if you understand what I'm posting.

 

[code1211]

Right. SO we agree...just because you see me with a gun, there is no indicator that I am committing a crime and you wouldnt (they shouldnt) have called the police.

Um...

We are conversing on an internet discussion forum.

I don't see you. I don't see a gun. I didn't call the cops.

What are you talking about?

 

[VanceMack]

I don't know if you understand what I'm posting.

I do....you are posting an advocacy for Gestapo tactics encouraging police action against citizens that have committed no crime and you use fear as your cover.

 

[Drowning Man]

If that is what George Floyd had done, he would be alive today and the billions of dollars of damage done in his name by the rampaging rioters across the country would never have happened.

George Floyd would be alive today if Derek Chauvin hadn't suffocated him with his knee on his neck for 10 minutes.

George Floyd's death wasn't ruled a suicide, but a murder, committed by a cop.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

All they had was a guy that sort of matched the description, walking to his car who may be carrying a gun

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

George Floyd would be alive today if Derek Chauvin hadn't suffocated him with his knee on his neck for 10 minutes.

True.

And Officer Chauvin never would have had that dirt ball down on his face with his nose crunched into the pavement if Mr. "Angel Wings & Halo" Floyd had simply made better career choices instead of being a violent criminal felon his entire life, and then resisted arrest in terrible health and a decent amount of strong illegal drugs in his system.

Plenty of blame to go around here DM, imo!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Perhaps the 911 operator should be trained better...as in to ask...OK...so you believe the individual has a gun....and....what are they doing that warrants suspicion?

I have a gun. I have a gun legally. I am legally authorized to carry my firearm. What crime do you suspect me of

Tough to say, but in todays climate of mass shootings in public I look at anyone carrying a gun in public with suspicion and mistrust.

We just cant ASSume any longer that these folk are all "good guys" because clearly many are NOT. The cops were right to check it out, if someone calls it in they will check it out. Cant afford NOT to anymore, too many people with too many guns and not enough sense out there IMO Mack.

 

[VanceMack]

Tough to say, but in todays climate of mass shootings in public I look at anyone carrying a gun in public with suspicion and mistrust.

We just cant ASSume any longer that these folk are all "good guys" because clearly many are NOT. The cops were right to check it out, if someone calls it in they will check it out. Cant afford NOT to anymore, too many people with too many guns and not enough sense out there IMO Mack.

Without googling it, when was the last 'mass shooting'?

 

[Questerr]

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What exactly is the crime in that description? I know your ilk of white supremacists believe everything non-whites do is a crime, but what actual law was being violated?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

What exactly is the crime in that description? I know your ilk of white supremacists believe everything non-whites do is a crime, but what actual law was being violated?

A guy matching the description and carrying a gun would be "reasonable cause" to believe a crime had been committed, and giving the officer reason to continue with the investigation which would include possibly detaining the guy, verifying ID, interviewing him to see what he was doing, etc.

"Probable cause". Look it up.

 

[Questerr]

A guy matching the description and carrying a gun would be "reasonable cause" to believe a crime had been committed, and giving the officer reason to continue with the investigation which would include possibly detaining the guy, verifying ID, interviewing him to see what he was doing, etc.

"Probable cause". Look it up.

What crime is reasonable to suspect?

Is carrying a gun illegal? Is walking while black the crime?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Without googling it, when was the last 'mass shooting'?

Thats irrelevant Mack.

There are frequent shootings every day, in every state, everyone knows that. There was a mass shooting at my high school and 2 cops were attacked by a nitwit with an AK47 just 10 minutes down the road from me. And this is a very rural and not metropolitan area.

So there are idiots with guns EVERYWHERE, we all know that.
I'm not going to ASSume these are "good guys".

Let normalize calling the cops when we see a person with a gun!~ May save a life or lives.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

What crime is reasonable to suspect?

Is carrying a gun illegal? Is walking while black the crime?

From my understanding the Police were responding to a complaint called in by a citizen. Thats "probable cause" to investigate further.

Why do you keep mention the guys color? Whats that got to do with anything? Are you "anti-racist" (ie: racist against Whites)?

 

[Questerr]

From my understanding the Police were responding to a complaint called in by a citizen. Thats "probable cause" to investigate further.

Why do you keep mention the guys color? Whats that got to do with anything? Are you "anti-racist" (ie: racist against Whites)?

The citizen “complained” that a guy was walking with a gun. What the crime there that warrants investigation? What crime is reasonably suspected?

It’s interesting that every single time a non-white person is abused by police, you show up to defend the police.

 

[VanceMack]

Thats irrelevant Mack.

There are frequent shootings every day, in every state, everyone knows that. There was a mass shooting at my high school and 2 cops were attacked by a nitwit with an AK47 just 10 minutes down the road from me. And this is a very rural and not metropolitan area.

So there are idiots with guns EVERYWHERE, we all know that.
I'm not going to ASSume these are "good guys".

Let normalize calling the cops when we see a person with a gun!~ May save a life or lives.

Its not irrelevant. It exposes the hyperbolic nature of your comment. There are 140 million law abiding citizen gun owners and at any time approx 22 million law abiding citizens carrying concealed, and now hundreds of thousands engaging in Constitutional Carry. Of the nearly 10,000 murders committed using firearms, the VAST majority of those incidents are gang related or involve victims in minority communities. On the other hand, mass shootings are extraordinarily rare and typically involve specifically targeted areas.

Using your rhetoric, I can only assume then that you are a big fan of the stop and frisk policies and promote racial profiling in minority communities....right?