• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Problem With the America Police System: pt2

Drowning Man

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
3,591
Reaction score
1,680
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
From my understanding the Police were responding to a complaint called in by a citizen. Thats "probable cause" to investigate further.

First, a citizen can call in and complain about things that aren't crimes. That an officer has a "complaint", doesn't rise to the level of "probable cause".
Second, I really don't think you understand what "probable cause" is. Within the US legal system, an officer needed "probable cause" OF A CRIME to be able to arrest someone. Getting a call alone, could never rise to the level of "probable cause". What I really think you're trying to talk about is "reasonable suspicion". Reasonable suspicion is a much lower standard of evidence than probable cause. If an officer has reasonable suspicion OF A CRIME or that criminal activity is afoot, the officer can detain, and in many states, demand that a citizen ID themselves. Reasonable suspicion can be built upon a 911 call, but I don't think that can be the sole component.

In the case of the OP, there was a 911 call and a complaint, but nothing alleged in that call was even suggested to be a crime. All the call said is that there was a black guy in a white hoodie with a gun. It didn't say that he was threatening anyone or otherwise doing anything illegal. All it said is that they wanted him checked out.
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
It didn't say that he was threatening anyone or otherwise doing anything illegal. All it said is that they wanted him checked out.

Cool. And he was checked out. Nice work Officers!
Come on....whats your beef?
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
106,175
Reaction score
22,743
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Well if they just blew the call off and then someone was injured or killed then you would be here bitching about their lack of action. Screaming look at this vedio that shows the cops did nothing.
Some are never happy!
The only person talking about cops blowing off a call is you...
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Using your rhetoric, I can only assume then that you are a big fan of the stop and frisk policies
Actually seems to have been a pretty effective policy at least in the limited times I am aware that is was used. It wasnt used in my city.
and promote racial profiling in minority communities....right?

Dont know about that.
There are more crimes committed in "minority communities" in many cases. Or just call it a "higher crime area", doesnt necessarily have to be a minority community.
You direct more of your policing at higher crime areas, so to me it makes sense to target higher crime areas and many times these are areas with lots of minorities.
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
106,175
Reaction score
22,743
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
If a complaint is received, it seems the cops should respond.

Once on site, they should exercise as many tactics and as much prudence as is at their disposal to diffuse any tensions AND assure that nobody is hurt.

When the situation is sufficiently controlled, THEN they can dig into the situation's nuance and details.
The first thing that needs to happen is accountability for those calling in bullshit/lying complaints.

Cops should do as little as needs to be done to finish their call out... if that means that a guy is filming in public then the cops should just leave... most of the times the cops just need to write a traffic ticket and go. But they don't. They want to run warrants. That should not be a part of a traffic stop.
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
He was illegally detained and searched.

Nah. Not really.
People get detained and searched all the time. Its happened to me. This guy doesnt get a pity party from me. Just shut your piehole and cooperate and clear it up and be on your way.

get that gun nut up against the wall!!!
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
The first thing that needs to happen is accountability for those calling in bullshit/lying complaints.

Cops should do as little as needs to be done to finish their call out... if that means that a guy is filming in public then the cops should just leave... most of the times the cops just need to write a traffic ticket and go. But they don't. They want to run warrants. That should not be a part of a traffic stop.

LOL. Sure am glad you aren't in charge of public safety Bodi. :ROFLMAO::LOL:
 

Drowning Man

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
3,591
Reaction score
1,680
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Nah. Not really.
People get detained and searched all the time. Its happened to me. This guy doesnt get a pity party from me. Just shut your piehole and cooperate and clear it up and be on your way.

get that gun nut up against the wall!!!

People may get detained and searched all the time and it may have happened to you, but it was still against the law. The officers had no reasonable suspicion of a crime.

They are supposed to be law enforcement officers, not feelings enforcement officers.
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
People may get detained and searched all the time and it may have happened to you, but it was still against the law. The officers had no reasonable suspicion of a crime.

They are supposed to be law enforcement officers, not feelings enforcement officers.

Well, looks like we have a difference of opinion.

When a citizen calls and says some guy is being suspicious with a gun in the neighborhood, I like to know the Police are going to go check it out and see what's going on. Could be a very serious crime in commission.

Good work officers!
 

Drowning Man

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
3,591
Reaction score
1,680
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well, looks like we have a difference of opinion.

When a citizen calls and says some guy is being suspicious with a gun in the neighborhood, I like to know the Police are going to go check it out and see what's going on. Could be a very serious crime in commission.

Good work officers!

Checking things out is fine. They still have to stay within the bounds of the law. And that isn't based on a "difference of opinion".
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Checking things out is fine. They still have to stay within the bounds of the law. And that isn't based on a "difference of opinion".

Do the Police come to where you work and tell you how to do your job?

Heh heh , stay in your lane brah.
 

Drowning Man

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
3,591
Reaction score
1,680
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Do the Police come to where you work and tell you how to do your job?

Heh heh , stay in your lane brah.

Cops are public servants. They work for the people. And what they can do in their job is clearly defined within the law in this case.

The cops should be sued...and they would lose big, IMO. That will, in turn, cost me as a tax payer even more money for a crap job done by the police.

So, yes, I certainly have a right to criticize how they do their jobs.
 

Questerr

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
15,552
Reaction score
7,089
Location
San Antonio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Nah. Not really.
People get detained and searched all the time. Its happened to me. This guy doesnt get a pity party from me. Just shut your piehole and cooperate and clear it up and be on your way.

get that gun nut up against the wall!!!

If the police detain and search you when there is no reason to suspect you are committing a crime, then their detention and search is illegal.
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
106,175
Reaction score
22,743
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
How do you know this?

Reviewing any situation with 20/20 hindsight is easy.
The guy is in public and does not have a gun. The cops ask him if he has a gun, ask him for a carry permit (if needed in that area only) and let him go in about 1 minute total. No kids having guns pulled on them. No shouting. No detainment. Cops leave. Easy. End of story. ... But no. They come in guns blazing, threatening to shoot three little girls? And you don't see any problem with this at all?
 

Questerr

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
15,552
Reaction score
7,089
Location
San Antonio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Well, looks like we have a difference of opinion.

When a citizen calls and says some guy is being suspicious with a gun in the neighborhood, I like to know the Police are going to go check it out and see what's going on. Could be a very serious crime in commission.

Good work officers!

Why is walking with a gun “suspicious”? What crime is the person suspected of?
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
106,175
Reaction score
22,743
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Perhaps the 911 operator should be trained better...as in to ask...OK...so you believe the individual has a gun....and....what are they doing that warrants suspicion?

I have a gun. I have a gun legally. I am legally authorized to carry my firearm. What crime do you suspect me of?
Just what I have been saying.
Where’s the full, unedited 911 call?
Grab that for us... thanks.

The only thing that stands between order and anarchy is the police dept.If LEO vanished tomorrow, society would collapse within 72 hours.
Nobody is calling for the police to vanish... anything else?
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
106,175
Reaction score
22,743
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
During the evaluation and mindful that other cops in this country are being assassinated by miscreants on the scene when other cops responded to calls in the very recent past:

Should the cops have arrived with a carefree lack of awareness and both a naive and stupid lack of concern for their personal safety?


Here is part of the problem. Us vs. Them.

Cops being assassinated is like Postal workers bringing Uzi's to work. It jus doesn't happen that much.
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
106,175
Reaction score
22,743
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
I did not call the police. If the police responded to a call from someone else are are talking with you, I had nothing to do with it.
...and this is where you contribution to this thread has clearly become a joke.


@VanceMack
 

bomberfox

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
25,661
Reaction score
8,337
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
And this is why not much will be done in such an atomistic society as America.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
79,619
Reaction score
34,736
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Actually seems to have been a pretty effective policy at least in the limited times I am aware that is was used. It wasnt used in my city.


Dont know about that.
There are more crimes committed in "minority communities" in many cases. Or just call it a "higher crime area", doesnt necessarily have to be a minority community.
You direct more of your policing at higher crime areas, so to me it makes sense to target higher crime areas and many times these are areas with lots of minorities.
I guess if you are OK with law enforcement randomly stopping people without cause, even in minoirty communities...then I have to you credit for consistency.
 

TurboSlayer

Banned
Joined
Dec 4, 2021
Messages
585
Reaction score
58
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Cops are public servants. They work for the people. And what they can do in their job is clearly defined within the law in this case.

The cops should be sued...and they would lose big, IMO. That will, in turn, cost me as a tax payer even more money for a crap job done by the police.

So, yes, I certainly have a right to criticize how they do their jobs.
LOL the police are the glue that holds our society together!
 

Drowning Man

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
3,591
Reaction score
1,680
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
LOL the police are the glue that holds our society together!

Well, a lot of people certainly did come together to protest the police in the wake of George Floyd and Rodney King…
 
Top Bottom