The Problem With the America Police System: pt2

[Peacenik]

It's too bad that your thinking on this has been so perverted by the political propagandists that have perverted it.

You seem to understand the problems associated with the situations into which these human beings acting as police are placed.

Assuming that the problems encountered are created by police who were called to help solve the already created problems is an interesting twist in your logic.

People seem to do the best they can do with what they have to work with in any moment. They sometimes make bad choices or mistakes.

Police are people. Police usually are dealing with other people. The more people that are involved, the exponentially greater do the chances for idiocy increase.

It is safe to say that problems implied by any interaction between increase when idiots are involved.

From what I've seen in my short life on this planet, police deal with a higher percent of idiots in their daily actions than do most of us.

That's all fine and well but it doesn't address the fact that police often practice white privilege when dealing with the pubic. Whites often get the benefit of the doubt, blacks often do not.

Those racist guys in GA that gunned down Armaud Arbery were guilty. But they were initially let go by the local police.

If those had been black guys who chased down a white jogger and killed him I don't think they would have been let go by the same police that let the good old boy white guys go.

 

[Drowning Man]

Come, evaluate the situation (there was no disturbance, just a guy walking to his car).
Talk to the complainant -- or at least the caller, because the caller didn't even have first hand knowledge of the non-crime.
Look for a crime?
Maybe start a consensual conversation with the guy that sort of matched the description (he wasn't wearing a "white hoodie" but he was black)

Otherwise...not much.

Oh, I almost forgot the most important part... Explain to caller (and the complainant if possible) that a black man owning a gun isn't a crime.

 

[code1211]

Come, evaluate the situation (there was no disturbance, just a guy walking to his car).
Talk to the complainant -- or at least the caller, because the caller didn't even have first hand knowledge of the non-crime.
Look for a crime?
Maybe start a consensual conversation with the guy that sort of matched the description (he wasn't wearing a "white hoodie" but he was black)

Otherwise...not much.

During the evaluation and mindful that other cops in this country are being assassinated by miscreants on the scene when other cops responded to calls in the very recent past:

Should the cops have arrived with a carefree lack of awareness and both a naive and stupid lack of concern for their personal safety?

MSN

www.msn.com

Homicides of law enforcement officers responding to domestic disturbance calls - PubMed

This study describes domestic disturbance-related LEO homicides. Future research in this area should further examine the dangers unique to domestic disturbance calls. A longitudinal analysis could provide greater understanding of the injury and mortality risks faced by LEOs, in order to inform...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[code1211]

Perhaps the 911 operator should be trained better...as in to ask...OK...so you believe the individual has a gun....and....what are they doing that warrants suspicion?

I have a gun. I have a gun legally. I am legally authorized to carry my firearm. What crime do you suspect me of?

Do you think the average amateur observer can be relied upon to provide a useful situation representation for the cops?

Seems like that would be a rare caller.

I assume, and I could very likely be wrong, that the average caller is less like Joe Friday and more like Gladys Kravitz.

 

[code1211]

What is the reasonable suspicion of a crime, based on the 911 call?

The reasonable suspicion is that cops are being assassinated by miscreants on the scene with alarming frequency.

When a cop knows that his fellows are being killed for no reason and with no warning simply because they are hated for wearing a uniform, they should be allowed some grace.

 

[code1211]

Perhaps the 911 operator should be trained better...as in to ask...OK...so you believe the individual has a gun....and....what are they doing that warrants suspicion?

I have a gun. I have a gun legally. I am legally authorized to carry my firearm. What crime do you suspect me of?

I suspect you of no crime.

What crime do you intend to commit with your gun?

 

[Drowning Man]

During the evaluation and mindful that other cops in this country are being assassinated by miscreants on the scene when other cops responded to calls in the very recent past:

Should the cops have arrived with a carefree lack of awareness and both a naive and stupid lack of concern for their personal safety?

MSN

www.msn.com

Homicides of law enforcement officers responding to domestic disturbance calls - PubMed

This study describes domestic disturbance-related LEO homicides. Future research in this area should further examine the dangers unique to domestic disturbance calls. A longitudinal analysis could provide greater understanding of the injury and mortality risks faced by LEOs, in order to inform...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not at the expense of the law...

Again, construction workers, roofers, truck drivers...even your garbage man, all have more dangerous jobs than the cops do.

 

[Drowning Man]

The reasonable suspicion is that cops are being assassinated by miscreants on the scene with alarming frequency.

I wouldn't call an "alarming frequency". Again, COVID is the leading cause of death for cops the last 2 years running.

When a cop knows that his fellows are being killed for no reason and with no warning simply because they are hated for wearing a uniform, they should be allowed some grace.

They are afforded a lot of grace. They still have to follow the law.

 

[code1211]

That's all fine and well but it doesn't address the fact that police often practice white privilege when dealing with the pubic. Whites often get the benefit of the doubt, blacks often do not.

Those racist guys in GA that gunned down Armaud Arbery were guilty. But they were initially let go by the local police.

If those had been black guys who chased down a white jogger and killed him I don't think they would have been let go by the same police that let the good old boy white guys go.

It is possible that your opinion is correct.

What is obviously factual is that the guilty folks were arrested, tried and convicted.

 

[VanceMack]

I suspect you of no crime.

Then by what reason do you call the police? By what reason do police respond?

 

[VanceMack]

The reasonable suspicion is that cops are being assassinated by miscreants on the scene with alarming frequency.

When a cop knows that his fellows are being killed for no reason and with no warning simply because they are hated for wearing a uniform, they should be allowed some grace.

Seriously...do you hear yourself? There was literally no reason for the cops to have been called, for the cops to respond. By your reasoning, cops should be able to kick gun owners doors in and confiscate their weapons because some people kill cops.

 

[VanceMack]

Do you think the average amateur observer can be relied upon to provide a useful situation representation for the cops?

Seems like that would be a rare caller.

I assume, and I could very likely be wrong, that the average caller is less like Joe Friday and more like Gladys Kravitz.

This isnt complicated. If you go to the liquor store and buy a couple fifths of vodka and get in your car, if some busybody in the paring lot calls the cops because you might drink and drive, there is no justification for the police to respond.

 

[code1211]

Not at the expense of the law...

Again, construction workers, roofers, truck drivers...even your garbage man, all have more dangerous jobs than the cops do.

And all of the folks you cite here likely take precautions against the dangers their jobs pose.

Again, mindful that cops are being asassinated due only to the clothes they are wearing, should they not exercise precautions that are prudent?

Are people gunning down roofers simply because they carry shingles?

 

[code1211]

I wouldn't call an "alarming frequency". Again, COVID is the leading cause of death for cops the last 2 years running.



They are afforded a lot of grace. They still have to follow the law.

True. What is your point?

 

[Drowning Man]

And all of the folks you cite here likely take precautions against the dangers their jobs pose.

Again, mindful that cops are being asassinated due only to the clothes they are wearing, should they not exercise precautions that are prudent?

Are people gunning down roofers simply because they carry shingles?

All irrelevant. The police are given certain privileges. They are allowed to do many things. What they can't do is detain someone for no reason, handcuff them and search them.

 

[Drowning Man]

True. What is your point?

They didn't follow the law. They are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. Following and enforcing the law is literally their job.

 

[code1211]

Then by what reason do you call the police? By what reason do police respond?

I did not call the police. If the police responded to a call from someone else are are talking with you, I had nothing to do with it.

 

[Peacenik]

It is possible that your opinion is correct.

What is obviously factual is that the guilty folks were arrested, tried and convicted.

Because of video. If it had not been for that, they would have walked. And even with the video, it took an outcry to lead to justice.

 

[code1211]

Seriously...do you hear yourself? There was literally no reason for the cops to have been called, for the cops to respond. By your reasoning, cops should be able to kick gun owners doors in and confiscate their weapons because some people kill cops.

The police, like it or not, are called by folks who call them.

When they arrive, like it or not, they are sometimes assassinated by folks who assassinate them.

That's the real world.

 

[code1211]

This isnt complicated. If you go to the liquor store and buy a couple fifths of vodka and get in your car, if some busybody in the paring lot calls the cops because you might drink and drive, there is no justification for the police to respond.

Your example is not a parallel.

By what device are the police in your dream world allowed to either ignore, or accept as credible, the calls from people who call in?

 

[VanceMack]

Your example is not a parallel.

By what device are the police in your dream world allowed to either ignore, or accept as credible, the calls from people who call in?

I believe I already answered that. The 911 operator should have asked a simple question. OK...so what is this person with a gun doing? If the answer is shopping, or sitting in his car minding their own business...then the cops should not respond.

 

[VanceMack]

The police, like it or not, are called by folks who call them.

When they arrive, like it or not, they are sometimes assassinated by folks who assassinate them.

That's the real world.

I just dont even know if you HEAR yourself.

 

[VanceMack]

I did not call the police. If the police responded to a call from someone else are are talking with you, I had nothing to do with it.

Right. SO we agree...just because you see me with a gun, there is no indicator that I am committing a crime and you wouldnt (they shouldnt) have called the police.

 

[code1211]

All irrelevant. The police are given certain privileges. They are allowed to do many things. What they can't do is detain someone for no reason, handcuff them and search them.

And of course, they can restrain those who pose possible threats.

As citizens, if we find ourselves in a situation with the cops as they arrive at a scene to which they have been called, it is OUR duty to comply with their requests and follow their instructions.

If that is what George Floyd had done, he would be alive today and the billions of dollars of damage done in his name by the rampaging rioters across the country would never have happened.

Miscreants are assassinating cops for sport. The cops know this and are opposed to dying. We ALL know this.

Why are you denying this obvious truth?

Here's one example of the sort of thing that your bias won't let you accept:

Police: Man stabs 2 Ind. cops in 'unprovoked' attack, is shot

The man had told officers that someone else was harassing him, and then stabbed the officers as they turned away

www.police1.com

<snip>
The officers shot and wounded the man after they were stabbed, Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Assistant Chief Chris Bailey said, and both the officers and the man were in stable condition early Wednesday.

A police report filed in the case indicates a 20-year-old man was arrested and is facing two preliminary charges of attempted murder.

The stabbing occurred after officers responded to a report of a disturbance in the 1400 block of Fairfield Avenue, a neighborhood near East 38th Street and Fall Creek Parkway North Drive, shortly after 1 a.m.

Police said two officers encountered a man "who reported another individual was harassing him." The officers told the man they'd try to find the person, police said, and, as they turned and walked away, were stabbed by the man who reported the alleged harassment.

"The officers then gave verbal commands and discharged their weapons when the suspect failed to listen to their commands," Bailey told reporters. "This was 100% unprovoked."
<snip>

 

[code1211]

They didn't follow the law. They are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. Following and enforcing the law is literally their job.

What part of "the law" did they not follow?