The problem with God

[AlbqOwl]

Back in the 1970's I think, possibly early 1980's, there were a couple of George Burns movies made: "Oh God". In a rare up close and personal encounter with God, God was asked, "Why" regarding evil, sickness, hunger, etc. The explanation was that God couldn't figure out how to make an "up" without a "down". He couldn't make an "in" with no "out". Likewise without sorrow, there can be no joy, without despair there can be no hope, without hate there can be no love. And in order for people to have freedom to experience joy, hope, love, there had to be the risk that they would choose paths that led to the downside.

So that's our dilemma. We are either puppets with no mind, original thought, ability to feel, experience, explore, aspire, love, hope, exult, etc., or we have the ability to make our own evils.

It was about as good an explanation as I've seen for the phenomenon. There was some terrible theology in the movies, but the explanation of good and evil pretty well hit the nail on the head.

 

[Alex]

Back in the 1970's I think, possibly early 1980's, there were a couple of George Burns movies made: "Oh God". In a rare up close and personal encounter with God, God was asked, "Why" regarding evil, sickness, hunger, etc. The explanation was that God couldn't figure out how to make an "up" without a "down". He couldn't make an "in" with no "out". Likewise without sorrow, there can be no joy, without despair there can be no hope, without hate there can be no love. And in order for people to have freedom to experience joy, hope, love, there had to be the risk that they would choose paths that led to the downside.

So that's our dilemma. We are either puppets with no mind, original thought, ability to feel, experience, explore, aspire, love, hope, exult, etc., or we have the ability to make our own evils.

It was about as good an explanation as I've seen for the phenomenon. There was some terrible theology in the movies, but the explanation of good and evil pretty well hit the nail on the head.

But that god has the power to abolish evil and they do not knowing that it can cause hardships to people. That makes that god evil themself.

 

[RealmOfThePureForms]

AlbqOwl that is a good explanation for why there is *suffering* in the world. But it fails to answer the question of God's ability to create evil or his ability to judge his creation for choosing evil if he had no ability to make evil in the first place which as you pointed out is required for us to know good.

If there is no solid answer to this problem with God then we can only assume based on the problem at hand that God is either not all good or that God is casting judgement on his creation when his creation was subject to something (evil) which God had no control over the creation of making God a hypocrite.

I mean you could take an analogy of the situation just to see how messed up it is.

Our 3 points of analogy are God,God having no control over creating evil, and God judging his creation for choosing evil actions(the least of which would be to not serve this God, yet it carries the greatest punishment of eternal hell)

So let's analyze this.

Let's say are mother left us in the house and went out (mother represents God) and while she was away, a burgler broke in(burgler represents evil which our mom has no control over) the burgler did not steal anything, instead the burgler showed us how to take 20 dollars from our mothers pocketbook while she wasn't looking, (that act of stealing represents evil interference in our life which our mom could not keep away from us) upon arriving home our mother puts her purse down and we steal 20 dollars from it, our mother then punishes us for doing this when she had no ability to protect us from the burglers impact in the first place.

This is the problem with God if he was not the creater of evil. He is punishing his creation for falling victim to something that would be the one uncalculable equasion in God's universal plan because God himself could not create it, and that is evil.

 

[AlbqOwl]

While I do not presume for one minute to know the mind of God or why He does anything, I am absolutely certain that God is neither the creator nor author of evil. In a world of free choice, the possibility of evil must exist. But it is not God who wills it to be so. It is we humans who decide whether there shall be evil or there shall be good.

 

[iron butterfly]

AlbqOwl : Taking the road less traveled is a luxury a strong person can enjoy but if the paths cross or rejoin have you gained or are you behind ?
If religion was the peoples leader ,you might have gained if life has been good but if democracy is the leader you may have lost more than you can ever regain in your life time .

If it is not true that you live alone then to follow that truth would be a folly ,a mistake that could give way to an " accident "?

"It is a foolish man that lives a life that is not true " for his future is not clear . It is evolution for untrue things to end and true things to survive .God is good ,good is great ,God is great ......ect...ect .

 

[MrFungus420]

Back in the 1970's I think, possibly early 1980's, there were a couple of George Burns movies made: "Oh God". In a rare up close and personal encounter with God, God was asked, "Why" regarding evil, sickness, hunger, etc. The explanation was that God couldn't figure out how to make an "up" without a "down". He couldn't make an "in" with no "out". Likewise without sorrow, there can be no joy, without despair there can be no hope, without hate there can be no love. And in order for people to have freedom to experience joy, hope, love, there had to be the risk that they would choose paths that led to the downside.

So that's our dilemma. We are either puppets with no mind, original thought, ability to feel, experience, explore, aspire, love, hope, exult, etc., or we have the ability to make our own evils.

It was about as good an explanation as I've seen for the phenomenon. There was some terrible theology in the movies, but the explanation of good and evil pretty well hit the nail on the head.

I will come back to my primary point to dispute this.

There is no way that a loving, caring deity could allow children to be raped. The simple fact that this true abomination occurs shows that, if there is a deity, it is either totally uncaring (if not actually malevolent), or impotent to prevent it.

If the former, then the deity is definately not the Christian, Jewish or Muslim god (whether or not you consider them to actually be the same god, I know some do), because that would belie the claim of a loving god. It would actually point more towards some of the polytheistic religions. The Roman and Greek pantheons, with the capricious attitude that the gods seemed to have towards men, seem more fitting with this. People were basically playthings for the gods.

If the latter, then it is not omnipotent, and again, that means not the Christian, Jewish or Muslim god.

So, I put it to you that the simple fact that children get raped disproves the Christian, Jewish and Muslim gods.

 

[AlbqOwl]

The only way God can stop anybody from doing anything is to take away free will.

 

[Tashah]

The core problem of this theme remains unchanged. One cannot apply logic or empiricism to the realm of the metaphysical. That is why metaphysics is considered a pseudoscience. Trying to apply human logic to a faith-based hypothesis is thematically comparable to expecting the laws of physics to yield viable results beyond a Plank Length. Although it is an amusing parlor game, the resultant dividends are nil. Beyond scripture and religion which are biased by their very nature, the only other approach to questions of God and morality are voyages in the ocean of philosophy. Needless to say, any philosophical sojourn to quantify God must also float on endless waves of conjecture.

 

[MrFungus420]

The only way God can stop anybody from doing anything is to take away free will.

Sorry, but I view that as nothing more than a cop-out. We only have free-will to the extent of that which we are physically capable (i.e., I wouldn't view the fact that I am incapable of flying unaided to mean that I don't have free-will). We could have been made incapable of raping children.

There is no way that a being that is supposedly omnipotent, omniscient and loving could allow the rape of children, the rape of the most innocent. At best, it could be either omnipotent or loving, but not both.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Sorry, but I view that as nothing more than a cop-out. We only have free-will to the extent of that which we are physically capable (i.e., I wouldn't view the fact that I am incapable of flying unaided to mean that I don't have free-will). We could have been made incapable of raping children.

There is no way that a being that is supposedly omnipotent, omniscient and loving could allow the rape of children, the rape of the most innocent. At best, it could be either omnipotent or loving, but not both.

A cop out to you. A reality to me. I do not presume to dictate who, what, or why God is nor do I put God in the little boxes in which others attempt to put Him to define and discredit Him. I choose to believe that it is our job to protect little children, and I direct my anger at the filthy vermin who rape them. I support holding them 100% accountable for their actions. They should all be locked away for the rest of their natural life or, if they kill someone, they should be exterminated.

 

[Dogger807]

Mind if I throw a little something in here that's so true it's funny

TOP TEN SIGNS THAT YOU ARE AN UNQUESTIONING CHRISTIAN (11-23-03)
(stolen from the internet--author unknown)

10- You vigorously deny the existence of thousands
of gods claimed by other religions, but feel
outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9- You feel insulted and 'dehumanized' when
scientists say that people evolved from lesser life
forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim
that we were created from dirt.

8- You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Trinity god.

7- Your face turns purple when you hear of the
'atrocities' attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered
all the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in 'Joshua' --
including women, children, and animals!

6- You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about god sleeping with women, but you
have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit
impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who
got killed, came back to life and then ascended into
the sky.

5- You are willing to spend your life looking for
little loop-holes in the scientifically established
age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find
nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by
pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and
guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations
old.!

4- You believe that the entire population of this
planet wi th the exception of those who share your
beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival
sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of
Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the
most 'tolerant' and 'loving'.

3- While modern science, history, geology, biology,
and physics have failed to convince you otherwise,
some idiot rolling around on the floor, speaking in
'tongues,' may be all the evidence you need.

2- You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
>
1- You actually know a lot less than many Atheists
and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and
church history -- but still call yourself a
"Christian."

 

[iron butterfly]

Mind if I throw a little something in here that's so true it's funny

TOP TEN SIGNS THAT YOU ARE AN UNQUESTIONING CHRISTIAN (11-23-03)
(stolen from the internet--author unknown)

10- You vigorously deny the existence of thousands
of gods claimed by other religions, but feel
outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9- You feel insulted and 'dehumanized' when
scientists say that people evolved from lesser life
forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim
that we were created from dirt.

8- You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Trinity god.

7- Your face turns purple when you hear of the
'atrocities' attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered
all the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in 'Joshua' --
including women, children, and animals!

6- You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about god sleeping with women, but you
have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit
impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who
got killed, came back to life and then ascended into
the sky.

5- You are willing to spend your life looking for
little loop-holes in the scientifically established
age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find
nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by
pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and
guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations
old.!

4- You believe that the entire population of this
planet wi th the exception of those who share your
beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival
sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of
Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the
most 'tolerant' and 'loving'.

3- While modern science, history, geology, biology,
and physics have failed to convince you otherwise,
some idiot rolling around on the floor, speaking in
'tongues,' may be all the evidence you need.

2- You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
>
1- You actually know a lot less than many Atheists
and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and
church history -- but still call yourself a
"Christian."

TO err is human to do it twice is monkey .

If all religions believe in only one God then they all know God by different names is all . God is good ,good is great ,God is great . Politicians err twice ha ha ha ha ha ,......throw those nana peels little tiger .GRRRR :roll:

 

[Donkey1499]

TO err is human to do it twice is monkey .

If all religions believe in only one God then they all know God by different names is all . God is good ,good is great ,God is great . Politicians err twice ha ha ha ha ha ,......throw those nana peels little tiger .GRRRR :roll:

To err thrice is spider crab......

 

[Rev.]

Might as well start my forum career on the most controversial subject out there. :mrgreen:


I used to be a Christian. Now I realize that there are major problems with organized religious beliefs. Philosophy helped me realize this. But when I finally admitted it to myself my mind opened up and I began to persue the thoughts that I had previously blocked from my mind for fear of the true answers.

There is one major problem all the worlds major religions share in my humble opinion. That is good and evil. I will stick to the Christian God since I know Christianity better than I know any other religion, but it applies to Islam and Judiasm as well.

So my question for the Christians is first to open your mind and answer the following truthfully and second to refute it if you possibly can using LOGIC.

God is all good.
That means evil came from outside of God.
Good + Evil = Free Will
Without good you cannot define evil. Without evil you cannot define good.
If only good existed, then there would be no free will.

So if God is incapable of creating evil, and God needed evil to give human beings free will, then whatever created evil is what defined God as good and what gave humans free will.

So here are my questions to you.

1. How can you say God is responsible for something (free will) which he is incapable of creating himself without the help of some other being?

2. What makes him God if he is incapable of creating free will by himself?

3. Where does this God get the right to judge the beings that were affected by an outside source (evil) that God has no control over creating.

A problem that has been floating around in my head for awhile, I'd like to hear an answer if any religious person can give one. Thanks.

The central problem is in your definition of freewill. A secondary problem is in your definition of evil as a "thing" You are arguing that the thing called "good" and the thing called "evil" must both exist before there is a possibility of choice.

In the beginning God created...and He saw that it was good. Does that mean "good" opposite of evil? No. Good is not a moral term. Good means (from the Hebrew) "suited for its purpose." If the purpose is being fulfilled, it is good. If the purpose is not being fulfilled, it is not good. For example, a chair is made to sit in. So if you sit in the chair, the chair is good. But if you use a chair as a step stool, or a door stop, or a bookshelf it is not good...not because the chair is immoral but because the purpose of the chair is not being fulfilled. So evil is not a thing, it is a condition of not fulfilling ones purpose.

So how can we define freewill? Free will is not, as you said, "good + evil" Free will is the ability to choose between fulfilling one's purpose and NOT fulfilling one's purpose. And our purpose is to worship God...not because He makes us (we are not automatons), but because we choose to. Adam was given a choice between God being God or making himself God. Adam chose to make himself God (which was not his purpose and was therefore evil according to the previous definition).

This understanding of freewill makes your first two questions misinformed, so I won't bother with them. But your third question "What gives God the right to judge?" deserves a response...since God was the creator and the definer of the purpose He is the only one who can actually judge whether or not we've fulfilled the purpose He intended...which is to worship HIM as God.

I would be interested in continuing this as a thoughtful civilized discussion.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

A deity created us just so we could worship it?

 

[AlbqOwl]

A deity created us just so we could worship it?

I guess we would like to think so; however, the intuitive part of me suggests that there is probably quite a bit more to it than that.

I do not know where evil came from, but I am reasonably certain that God did not create it. I do not know how, why, when, or for what purpose all that exists was created, but I believe God (by whatever name you call Him) created it all and that it was all good until some decided to screw it up. I believe all evil comes from the individual or collective or cumulative sin of the creation, and I believe sin is defined as that which harms oneself or others.

I don't presume to understand why we were given free will and thus the ability to sin, but I think it is because the ability to be free to choose is such a glorious gift as compared to a mindless puppet manipulated by unseen strings.

All in all however, I believe too many, both believers and nonbelievers alike, try too hard to explain God. They try to put him in a prefabricated box so that everything fits neatly and can be clearly seen and defined. I don't believe for a minute that any of us know but a minute fraction of what there is to know of God and those who think they have it all figured out are going to be quite suprised at some point.

If creatures so puny when measured against the power of the universe were able to understand, describe, define, or explain God, He wouldn't be much of a God would He?

 

[Naughty Nurse]

If creatures so puny when measured against the power of the universe were able to understand, describe, define, or explain God, He wouldn't be much of a God would He?

I'm sorry, but that sounds so much like a total cop-out. "I can't prove my god exists because that is the nature of my god."

 

[kal-el]

I do not know where evil came from, but I am reasonably certain that God did not create it.

Let me ask you something. If you believe in God so much, have you even taken the time to read his book?:bs Do I have to quote passages where it says God created everything, good AND evil?

I do not know how, why, when, or for what purpose all that exists was created,

I don't think you're man who sky-rocketed up to heaven does either. After reading the Bible, he doesn't strike me as one who is an intellectual giant.:lol:

but I believe God (by whatever name you call Him) created it all and that it was all good until some decided to screw it up.

:rofl I guess you're illuding to your imaginary friend to which there isn't even a shred of evidence for his existence?

I believe all evil comes from the individual or collective or cumulative sin of the creation, and I believe sin is defined as that which harms oneself or others.

Wow, your beliefs are totally opposite to what the Bible says. I hope you're not basing your beleif on the Bible. The bible states that Satan introduced sin when he turned Eve, but it goes on to say that God created everything. So being omniscient, he created Satan with the full knowledge that he would be evil and introduce sin into the world, thus he cannot be omnibenevolent.

I don't presume to understand why we were given free will and thus the ability to sin, but I think it is because the ability to be free to choose is such a glorious gift as compared to a mindless puppet manipulated by unseen strings.

Even though to us it may seem like we have "free will", to an omniscvient creator, it's truly laughable. For instance if he knows that in 2 hours I will go out, I must go out in 2 hours, even though at that time it seems to me like I'm making the choice. We do not have free will.

All in all however, I believe too many, both believers and nonbelievers alike, try too hard to explain God.

No one has to try, it's all written in black and white, clearly so anyone can see.

They try to put him in a prefabricated box so that everything fits neatly and can be clearly seen and defined. I don't believe for a minute that any of us know but a minute fraction of what there is to know of God and those who think they have it all figured out are going to be quite suprised at some point.

Yes, what if it turns out that when we die there is a God, just not the BibleGod. And he would definetly hate all those who worshipped the wrong God (Christians), so atheists, not believeing in any God would have a clean slate.

If creatures so puny when measured against the power of the universe were able to understand, describe, define, or explain God, He wouldn't be much of a God would He?

Nope, but if your make-believe sky gremlin exists, and wants "the word" spread to everyone, you would think an omnipotent entity wouldn't entrust delusionals with this utmost important message.

 

[RealmOfThePureForms]

I like this exerpt so I will put it up for others to read.

"Many of us will work hard all our adult life, build up a retirement account, achieve certain professional distinctions, but inevitably ask if "this is all there is." When boredom hits, when reason informs us that there must be something deeper in life than merely acquiring things and padding the bank account -- when life feels empty, even meaningless -- where do we turn? Popular culture has little to offer in the way of profundities and insights. It can distract us, titillate us, even throw a salve on an aching heart, but cannot offer a searching mind what it is looking for or what it hopes to find. Religions tell us that assent should precede understanding, and that faith is a wonderful surrogate for knowledge. They ask us to accept certain texts as precious and holy, even though such texts were written by ordinary men, fallible just as the rest of us are fallible, susceptible to culture-determined notions just as the rest of us are. For some of us, mere faith isn't enough: we want to know; we want the naked truth; we would much prefer an ugly truth to a soothing falsehood, and would rather stand with the lonely truth than with popular illusions and myths. It is philosophy to which we must then turn, for better or worse."

 

[Rev.]

A deity created us just so we could worship it?

Not just worship. If God was only interested in the worship, He already had angels doing that. He could make the mountains and the trees worship Him if it were just worship He wanted. More than that, He wants us to want Him because of who He is. The choice to worship is the important thing here. Worship is the expression of our choice to make Him our God and not ourselves.

 

[kal-el]

Not just worship. If God was only interested in the worship, He already had angels doing that.

Yes, as a matter of fact, your sky pixie created hell, and it's very first occupants were angels that caused a rocus in heaven.(which he had to forsee, but couldn't stop). The bible doesn't give an account of when he created the angels, but I guess it must have been before he created the universe, because Satan had already turned and was in the garden as a serpent. But, God created heaven nd earth at the same time:

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

He could make the mountains and the trees worship Him if it were just worship He wanted.

Yep, and if you believe in Jesus, you can move a mountain too.:lol:

More than that, He wants us to want Him because of who He is.

Actually, the God of the bible utilizes threats and violence to coerse people to follow him, so they really have no choice. What I don't quite get is why fundie Christians think a single abortion is so terrible, and think it's great that God drowned babies, pregnant women, all evildoers, etc. over 40 days? And if he can create the universe, why can't he make an ark, instead he had the alcoholic Noah slap it together, at a time when tools weren't yet invented nonetheless.

The choice to worship is the important thing here. Worship is the expression of our choice to make Him our God and not ourselves.

Our God, as opposed to others. It seems this "God" fellow gets quite on edge about Jews worshipping other Gods that he uses threats once again:

Exodus 18:11
NOw I know that the lord is greater than all other gods,for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly.

Exodus 23:13
Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

Exodus 23:24
Do not bow down before their gods and worship them or follow their practices. You must demolish them and break their sacred stones to pieces.

Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the lord whose name is Jealous, is a jealous god.

 

[justone]

I don't think you're man who sky-rocketed up to heaven does either. After reading the Bible, he doesn't strike me as one who is an intellectual giant.:lol:

Of course he doesn’t strike you, otherwise you would have some intellectual abilities. He strikes me when I look at what He has done over 2000 years. What have you done in – how old are you?

:rofl I guess you're illuding to your imaginary friend to which there isn't even a shred of evidence for his existence?

Are you talking about God? Are you thinking about God? Are you referring to God?
And you cannot see a shred of evidence? Whom are you talking about?

Wow, your beliefs are totally opposite to what the Bible says. I hope you're not basing your beleif on the Bible. The bible states that Satan introduced sin when he turned Eve, but it goes on to say that God created everything. So being omniscient, he created Satan with the full knowledge that he would be evil and introduce sin into the world, thus he cannot be omnibenevolent.

This is your reading of the Bible based on the level of your intellectual development.

Even though to us it may seem like we have "free will", to an omniscvient creator, it's truly laughable. For instance if he knows that in 2 hours I will go out, I must go out in 2 hours, even though at that time it seems to me like I'm making the choice. We do not have free will.

This is your reading of the Bible based on the level of your intellectual development. But listening to you I see - we do. You ARE exercising your free will at this moment. Or somebody is forcing you? So you are doing one thing and saying that you are doing something totally opposite. It is a common thing on your level of development.
But at least, I am glad to see somebody who does know what is going to happen to him in 2 hours. I am almost ready to start worshiping you.

Yes, what if it turns out that when we die there is a God, just not the BibleGod. And he would definetly hate all those who worshipped the wrong God (Christians), so atheists, not believeing in any God would have a clean slate.

Are you still talking about God?
An interesting chain of questions come to my mind:
What if it happens you will see aliens landing tomorrow? What if it
turns you will see Flying Spaghetty Monster in your window this night? What if it turns you’re chatting to Buddha over Internet? Is your “”what if “” a some kind of superstition?

Nope, but if your make-believe sky gremlin exists, and wants "the word" spread to everyone, you would think an omnipotent entity wouldn't entrust delusionals with this utmost important message.

At last I can see an intellectual who have applied logic to God’s will and trust. So, you figured out how it should work with God based on your analyses of the Bible? Actually what is the Bible? Isn’t it total b/s? There is no God, but the Bible is the most read book of all times. Don’t you think it is some kind of nonsense, some kind of an indicator of the stupidity of uneducated masses who have no chances to develop any kind of intellectual ability? Don’t you see these masses are standing on the way of really good things.
Oh, no! I see! This is exactly what you are doing – educating the masses and spreading the word of truth around. Are you going to write a book? How are you going to call it? True Unholy Bible? I cannot wait to read it.
[/QUOTE]

 

[justone]

Not just worship. If God was only interested in the worship, He already had angels doing that. He could make the mountains and the trees worship Him if it were just worship He wanted. More than that, He wants us to want Him because of who He is. The choice to worship is the important thing here. Worship is the expression of our choice to make Him our God and not ourselves.

Naughty Nurse, it is very interesting if you dare to say what you are going to say.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Naughty Nurse, it is very interesting if you dare to say what you are going to say.

How do you know what I'm going to say? Are you god?

 

[kal-el]

Of course he doesn’t strike you, otherwise you would have some intellectual abilities. He strikes me when I look at what He has done over 2000 years. What have you done in – how old are you?

What he has done? Dude, God is the all-powerful creator, right? And we are his creation, right? And we are not perfect, right? In that case he hasn't acted responsibly and cannot expect imperfect humans to act so. If the Bible God is loving, then everything he makes has to be good, or else he's not omnibenevolent.Btw, Tengo veintiseis anos.

Are you talking about God? Are you thinking about God? Are you referring to God?

That's really sharp of you to pick something like that up detective.:lol:

And you cannot see a shred of evidence? Whom are you talking about?

In the words of your savior, "Are you that dull?" The world this perfect God created is full of numerous atrocities, injustices, and unfairness. He's either not omnipotent, not omniscient, or knew very well what would come of his creation, but doesn't give a **** about us.

This is your reading of the Bible based on the level of your intellectual development.

Sorry, but if this God is omniscient, he created Satan with the full knowhow that he would turn evil and introduce sin into the world. It's a pretty simple idea really, all things good and bad come from God.

This is your reading of the Bible based on the level of your intellectual development. But listening to you I see - we do. You ARE exercising your free will at this moment. Or somebody is forcing you? So you are doing one thing and saying that you are doing something totally opposite. It is a common thing on your level of development.
But at least, I am glad to see somebody who does know what is going to happen to him in 2 hours. I am almost ready to start worshiping you.

Listen, an omniscient entity that knows everything, that is creator= no free will. It's a bit like if you went into the future and recorded all of my actions, and when the time comes, I have to do them, I think I'm choosing to do that, but a being who knows the future, already knows what we are going to do, hence no free will.

Are you still talking about God?

Wow, you have a low attention span, don't you?

An interesting chain of questions come to my mind:

Fire away.

What if it happens you will see aliens landing tomorrow?

Then I will know that we are not alone. I'm struggling to see where this bears any relevance to the topic at hand.

What if it
turns you will see Flying Spaghetty Monster in your window this night?

Impossible. I don't have any windows in my room.

What if it turns you’re chatting to Buddha over Internet?

Then I'll feel privleged.

Is your “”what if “” a some kind of superstition?

Huh? I don't exactly know what you are getting at here, please clarify so you don't come off so chimerical, thanks.

At last I can see an intellectual who have applied logic to God’s will and trust.

You are still in high school aren't you? This "God" fellow is portrayed as an asshole, who plays "hide and seek" with Adam and "peek a boo" with Moses, and the fatous, imbecilic God who is quick to anger has to be constantly worshipped, feared and appeased, mostly by sacrifices. Even the apostle Paul said God demands blood sacrifices.

So, you figured out how it should work with God based on your analyses of the Bible? Actually what is the Bible? Isn’t it total b/s?

I dare you to actually read the Bible, wait if that's too hard for you just read the first 3 books, then we'll see if you still think this God of yours is worth worship, or to pattern your entire life around.

but the Bible is the most read book of all times.

Correction- it's the best selling book, NOT the most read. Very few people are bible literate.

Don’t you think it is some kind of nonsense, some kind of an indicator of the stupidity of uneducated masses who have no chances to develop any kind of intellectual ability? Don’t you see these masses are standing on the way of really good things.
Oh, no! I see! This is exactly what you are doing – educating the masses and spreading the word of truth around. Are you going to write a book? How are you going to call it? True Unholy Bible? I cannot wait to read it.

Is this your ethnologic, phantasmagoric attempt at comedy? Please, arm yourself with some knowledge before you go out barking up the wrong tree.