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The Pledge of Allegiance

Well, Muslim children are meant to pray towards the East five times a day... if they are in school, that is going to come between that. And sometimes, oddly as this might sound, one might actually want to pray with his fellow students, or before a test or whatever. For most of us, we don't check God at the door, we believe He is ever present and we are always needing of Him. So to tell you to be someone you are not, or leave a part of you outside the classroom that makes you a better person is not a fair argument, but more than that, it is simply not the government's business.
 
So... god makes children's test scores go up?

THOU SHALT NOT CHEAT, unless you ask me to do it for you.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
So... god makes children's test scores go up?

THOU SHALT NOT CHEAT, unless you ask me to do it for you.
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No, personally, I always prayed that God would just remind me of the things I had studied and make clear what I have learned.
 
So... you credit your academic successes to God? You remembering the right answers to a test is left up to whether you know the material not if God aided you in remembering the material.

I think we are more responsible for our fate then most think.

It's this kind of thinking that led to "God made 9/11 happen."
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
So... you credit your academic successes to God? You remembering the right answers to a test is left up to whether you know the material not if God aided you in remembering the material.

I think we are more responsible for our fate then most think.

It's this kind of thinking that led to "God made 9/11 happen."
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I don't give God all the credit, I worked hard for my grades. But there is nothing wrong with giving Him credit where it is due. Especially for me, I am A.D.D. and it is sometimes incredibly hard for me to get my thoughts in line and show what I actually know. So yes, I do thank God that He aided me in this. Nothing I do I do alone. I try to allow Him to work through me in everything I do. That way, I will be used for His purposes and not my own selfish motives. I do believe in free will, but I also believe that God shows us His will for us and allows us to follow that if we so ask and choose.
 
I completely understand your position, but in my opinion God left the ball in our court along time ago. It's up to us now.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
I completely understand your position, but in my opinion God left the ball in our court along time ago. It's up to us now.
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So then you are to an extent a deist? My fiance was for a very long time a deist. I'm not sure exactly what changed her mind, but if I remember it correctly it had something to do with just the notion of feeling Him (God) ever present even though she had kind of sent Him off, He was still after her. I found that very interesting.
 
Honestly, I don't know what a diest is, but I can say I've never sent God off.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Honestly, I don't know what a diest is, but I can say I've never sent God off.
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Well, a deist is someone who believes that God created the earth and then kinda just left it. He serves as little more than an observer, if even that. Jefferson was a deist and I know a few of our other founding fathers were as well. The difference is, obviously, a very pro active God, who is very personal and active in the lives of His children, and those who believe in an observing or "hands off" God. My fiance simply couldn't shake the feeling that he was being incredibly active in her life.
 
I guess you could say I am a deist... hmm... Though I think God is fairly active in a sense... strange.

Maybe I'm a deist in Bizzaro world?
 
>>The under God should be optional, meaning that the school omits it but if an individual student wants to include it that is cool. All that would take is for the sturdent's parents to teach him/her to include under God.

It should not be included at all nor stated, the pledge should be the pledge, if everyone starts saying whatever they want to say then it will be chaos. The phrase, under God, is not part of the original and should be removed since not everyone believes in supernatural beings.
 
The mistake of adding the words Under God to the pledge should be corrected. For now I say the original pledge, but the standard form of the pledge should not be endoring the Abrahamic religions.
 
How about instead of quibbling over whether to include a two-word reference to a mythological being in what amounts to forced, government indoctrination of children, we eliminate the forced, government indocrination of children? Problem solved!
 
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I dont know if anyone else has said this in the replies yet but I think god can mean different things to people of different religions, it could be the the father of Christ, the jewish god (which I hear is the same guy), or Allah or any other god figure of any religions. My Jewish Algebra teacher even told my class what I just said (not word for word of course). But, if you are Athiest or your of some multi-god religion, and just can't put yourself to say two little words, fine sit down while everyone else recites or you can just not say those words if they're so hurtful to you. Not that big of a deal.
 
Repub05 said:
I dont know if anyone else has said this in the replies yet but I think god can mean different things to people of different religions, it could be the the father of Christ, the jewish god (which I hear is the same guy), or Allah or any other god figure of any religions. My Jewish Algebra teacher even told my class what I just said (not word for word of course). But, if you are Athiest or your of some multi-god religion, and just can't put yourself to say two little words, fine sit down while everyone else recites or you can just not say those words if they're so hurtful to you. Not that big of a deal.
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I'll admit it's not as big a deal as some of the other threats to the seperation of Church and State, but it is a problem. 'God' implies is the Christian's god, though some will say that could stretch to Jews and Muslims. Even if you stretched it to all monotheistic religions you're excluding anybody who follows Buddihsm, Hinduism, Jainism (I think anyway), Shintoism, Taoism, and various Pagan religions. If it is against anybody why should it be there? It was wrong to put it there and it should be corrected.
 
What a bunch of wimps were breeding in America. If the word God scares American children so much. That they have to be protected from it we are in sad shape.
IN the ancient days when I went to school we had the pledge, we read from the Old testament and we said the Our Father. Not one kid I knew ran screaming from the room in terror, or was committed to a mental institution because of the horror he felt.
If your child is so damaged by hearing, Under God recited.Its a sign of your inferior parenting,nothing else.
Oh yes, everyone stood !
 
JOHNYJ said:
What a bunch of wimps were breeding in America. If the word God scares American children so much. That they have to be protected from it we are in sad shape.
IN the ancient days when I went to school we had the pledge, we read from the Old testament and we said the Our Father. Not one kid I knew ran screaming from the room in terror, or was committed to a mental institution because of the horror he felt.
If your child is so damaged by hearing, Under God recited.Its a sign of your inferior parenting,nothing else.
Oh yes, everyone stood !
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How about this, if the fabric of our country is so weak that they not only have to say the pledge, but also claim that there's an invisible sky pixie that we're all under, then we're in a lot more trouble than we're letting on.
 
I think America is spiritually dead and we see our own government wasting time, money and American citizens to develop a power base of some leader we do not like or respect. If I were given any choices for improvement I would have to tell the people of America to vote in some honorable intelligent men. We have a leader at this time who is terrified of God and needs to bring more converts to this God to protect his own ass.

He is pushing legislation that is redundant to most people and only of interest to anyone who lives in fear of death. We need to educate our voters in politics, not religious doctrine. One country run by a religious zealot is as dangerous as any other.
 
shuamort said:
How about this, if the fabric of our country is so weak that they not only have to say the pledge, but also claim that there's an invisible sky pixie that we're all under, then we're in a lot more trouble than we're letting on.
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So I assume you use no currency?
 
shuamort said:
Just my debit and credit cards. :2razz: But nice try.
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At these interest rates?...Now I KNOW why you think there's no God!
 
Incomprehensible. That the American people, many of whom believe the Human Being to be the very image of their Creator, would subject their children to the utter degradation of pledging allegiance to an artifact.
 
No four letter word scares liberals as much as the three letter word GOD.
It always amazes me how fragile the children of liberals are. They are scared by.
the word GOD
Nativity scenes
Christmas Carols
Crosses
They coldn't have survived the 50's we had opening excercises. You read from the KJV ,the old testament.You recited the Lords Prayer and you did the pledge of allegiance. I never saw a kid collapse in terror, not the one.
 
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