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The one thing the Right cannot even think about today's marches

It's been, clearly stated many times in this thread, that 150,000 children have been traumatized by gun violence in schools; including ALL students involved, not necessarily killed or wounded. Are you saying that unless your murdered your experience doesn't count?

While I missed some discussion, this is what I referred to:

Since Columbine alone, more than 150,000 minors have been shot in the United States. Additionally, 150,000 students in at least 170 elementary, middle, and high school have experienced school shootings.

I was not addressing the 'additional' 150,000. Has there been some change in the quote?
 
If you'd listened to ABC News like I did less than an hour ago, you would have heard their reporter state that most of the ones he talked to there at the march in DC do NOT want to ban guns (other than the same kind of assault-style rifles that Reagan supported banning), but DO want common-sense gun control laws.

But you wouldn't know that since you seem to get all your "news" from the right-wing echo chamber.

That would limit future mass shooters to buying only used (grandfathered) "assault rifles" or those semi-auto rifles that lack multiple scary cosmetic features which is bound to pose an insurmountable barrier for sure.
 
Got 'eeeeemm!! :roll:

Ok, so now that I've clarified ... do you have any actual response? Have the pro-gun types in Washington offered any alternatives to a gun ban? I don't see the right marching for better mental health care, or more thoroughly-reported background checks.

It's entirely possible that the people marching for gun bans have not thought any of this thru and it's their knee-jerk reaction to gun violence. So let's give them something to latch onto besides banning a single model of semi-automatic weapon, which I wholeheartedly agree will do nothing to curb mass shootings.

Yep! Keep moving the goalpost until you get it where you need it. :lamo
 
You make good points, but I'll quibble about one thing: I think there's some question as to whether are not mass shootings are actually more common now.

Every mass shooting in the US involving at least 10 deaths has happened since 1999 and the five largest have happened since 2007. Only the University of Texas (16) in 1966 and a shooting in 1949 (13) happened earlier than 1999. Obviously, something has changed in our country.
 
That would limit future mass shooters to buying only used (grandfathered) "assault rifles" or those semi-auto rifles that lack multiple scary cosmetic features which is bound to pose an insurmountable barrier for sure.

The "Assault Weapons" ban of the WJ Clinton era proved that banning guns that "look" a certain way is futile, during the Clinton ban they just restocked the rifles in question and sold them anyway. All box magazine semi-auto's rifles and shotguns (including rim fire rifles) should be added to the Federal Firearms Act of 1934, their magazines, bump stocks and other accessories. For those that want to keep their weapon a registration fee of, at least, $2500.00 and compliance with all other provisions of the law should be required. As applied to machine guns all future manufacture of box magazine fed semi-auto rifles should be banned. If owners do not want to pay the registration fee the weapons should be bought back by The United States for a fair market value for 90 days. After the 90 days the weapons would be subject to forfeiture and the owners subject to a $250,000.00 fine and/or 10 years in jail, as specified by the law.
 
Yep, keep not answering the question and we'll get this whole thing figgered out in no time.

Keep asking gotcha questions and I'll keep responding the same way.
 
Got 'eeeeemm!! :roll:

Ok, so now that I've clarified ... do you have any actual response? Have the pro-gun types in Washington offered any alternatives to a gun ban? I don't see the right marching for better mental health care, or more thoroughly-reported background checks.

It's entirely possible that the people marching for gun bans have not thought any of this thru and it's their knee-jerk reaction to gun violence. So let's give them something to latch onto besides banning a single model of semi-automatic weapon, which I wholeheartedly agree will do nothing to curb mass shootings.

The major problem with the NICS BGC database is that it lacks loads of valuable data. Cruz should be seen as the poster child for who should have been in that database. The only reason that Cruz was not in that database is that multiple "see something, say something" alerts failed to get even a Baker Act response from local LEOs or school "officials" thus never allowing a judge to make an informed decision. I am not convinced that any mental health care regimen would have rendered Cruz not dangerous but it certainly should have noted that he was quite dangerous.
 
The "Assault Weapons" ban of the WJ Clinton era proved that banning guns that "look" a certain way is futile, during the Clinton ban they just restocked the rifles in question and sold them anyway. All box magazine semi-auto's rifles and shotguns (including rim fire rifles) should be added to the Federal Firearms Act of 1934, their magazines, bump stocks and other accessories. For those that want to keep their weapon a registration fee of, at least, $2500.00 and compliance with all other provisions of the law should be required. As for machine guns all future manufacture should be banned. If owners do not want to pay the registration fee the weapons should be bought back by The United States for a fair market value for 90 days. After the 90 days the weapons would be subject to forfeiture and the owners subject to a $250,000.00 fine and/or 10 years in jail, as specified by the law.

All that does is keep the weapons ONLY in the hands of the wealthy. And while it WILL cut down on the number of problems we have with them, it will be solely because there are fewer of them.
 
The major problem with the NICS BGC database is that it lacks loads of valuable data. Cruz should be seen as the poster child for who should have been in that database. The only reason that Cruz was not in that database is that multiple "see something, say something" alerts failed to get even a Baker Act response from local LEOs or school "officials" thus never allowing a judge to make an informed decision. I am not convinced that any mental health care regimen would have rendered Cruz not dangerous but it certainly should have noted that he was quite dangerous.

Correct. There were system and law enforcement failures all over the place. This should have been stopped.
 
Correct. There were system and law enforcement failures all over the place. This should have been stopped.

Sadly, the reason it wasn't was greed.
 
I call BS on the 150,000 since Columbine. That's 18 yrs, that adds up to 8333 kids a yr. Considering most of those would be minor gang members, I still call BS. Gun deaths/yr are under 30,000 and about half to 2/3 of those are suicides.

If you'd read the reference, you'd have understood that the 150K refers not to the ones who were killed, but to ALL the students at those schools where their classmates and friends were shot and either wounded or killed. Or are you somehow of the opinion that having one's friends shot and wounded (or killed) doesn't have any adverse effects on teenagers....
 
All that does is keep the weapons ONLY in the hands of the wealthy. And while it WILL cut down on the number of problems we have with them, it will be solely because there are fewer of them.

Bingo! By fewer problems you mean fewer deaths. Anyone can own a machine gun TODAY, it's expensive but your 2nd amendment rights are not infringed. The FFA of 1934 was passed because machine guns had proven themselves a health hazard, as have box magazine semi-auto rifles have today.
 
The "Assault Weapons" ban of the WJ Clinton era proved that banning guns that "look" a certain way is futile, during the Clinton ban they just restocked the rifles in question and sold them anyway. All box magazine semi-auto's rifles and shotguns (including rim fire rifles) should be added to the Federal Firearms Act of 1934, their magazines, bump stocks and other accessories. For those that want to keep their weapon a registration fee of, at least, $2500.00 and compliance with all other provisions of the law should be required. As applied to machine guns all future manufacture of box magazine fed semi-auto rifles should be banned. If owners do not want to pay the registration fee the weapons should be bought back by The United States for a fair market value for 90 days. After the 90 days the weapons would be subject to forfeiture and the owners subject to a $250,000.00 fine and/or 10 years in jail, as specified by the law.

Please convince all House and Senate demorats to run on that "common sense" gun control policy. You have my 100% support in that noble endeavor.
 
If you'd read the reference, you'd have understood that the 150K refers not to the ones who were killed, but to ALL the students at those schools where their classmates and friends were shot and either wounded or killed. Or are you somehow of the opinion that having one's friends shot and wounded (or killed) doesn't have any adverse effects on teenagers....

YOU, as the OP, separated them out...it was clearly 150,000 with an additional 150,000. So dont blame me for your writing.

And yeah, it is awful that kids have to experience that...just like it's awful that they have to experience the men/fathers beating their mothers and being in car accidents where other people or family members are killed.

Nobody wants to expose kids to those things but they are realities of their world. We need to stop spouses from beating spouses, we need to recognize that more kids die in vehicle accidents than from guns and gain some perspective, we need to find out why so many males, in the past 18 yrs, have failed to control themselves and these losers are acting out blaming everyone else for their problems, their resentment and jealousy, their failures in life, etc.

That is the problem...how are we producing these loser males that cant handle their emotions in a socially acceptable manner?
 
Correct. There were system and law enforcement failures all over the place. This should have been stopped.

At least some of those sage student activists should have noticed that basic fact. The response to government failure should never be more money and power being given to the same morons - yet many cheered doing just that in Floriduh.
 
If you'd read the reference, you'd have understood that the 150K refers not to the ones who were killed, but to ALL the students at those schools where their classmates and friends were shot and either wounded or killed. Or are you somehow of the opinion that having one's friends shot and wounded (or killed) doesn't have any adverse effects on teenagers....

The saddest part is that the gun-grabbing, NRA-hating Left is taking advantage of these kids and capitalizing on their fear and pain, and that's just plain predatory.
They are duping children and indoctrinating their not-even-yet-fully-formed brains into thinking that the NRA is a terrorist organization directly responsible for Parkland, when in FACT, is was a catastrophic failure of law enforcement, school officials and the FBI, in service of Obama and Eric Holder's "Promise" initiative.

And money. Let's not be coy about where this all leads.
 
Keep asking gotcha questions and I'll keep responding the same way.

It wasn't a "gotcha" question ... :shrug:

You said the left just wants to ban guns, I'm asking what alternatives have been offered by the pro-gun crowd? I really wasn't thinking of the suggestions being made by everyday folks at backyard BBQs ... but more along the lines of politicians, or officials from notable groups (NRA, anyone?) that support NOT banning guns.
 
Thank you for a straight answer!

Under our system of government, that approach would face quite a few legal hurdles. Of course the much ballyhooed "bump stock" devices are already outlawed.

What about the problem of humans stabbing other humans with knives? Apparently that happens much more frequently than shooting other humans with guns. Would you impose a similar program for knives or machetes?



Please list the mass stabbings.
 
It wasn't a "gotcha" question ... :shrug:

You said the left just wants to ban guns, I'm asking what alternatives have been offered by the pro-gun crowd? I really wasn't thinking of the suggestions being made by everyday folks at backyard BBQs ... but more along the lines of politicians, or officials from notable groups (NRA, anyone?) that support NOT banning guns.

And I gave you some. The, when that blew up in your face, you moved the goalpost.

Get ready to get some more **** in your face. Let's see where you go with the goalpost.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1GQ26R
 
Oh give me a break with that:
But the story of Crum, then a 40-year-old floor manager at a nearby bookstore, and the other vigilantes is complicated. On the day of the shooting, many of the armed men were reckless and unorganized. At times, they put police in danger.

“There were lots of people carrying guns, mostly young men, mainly rifles,” said Ann Major, who was a senior at the time. “There was a mood of insanity, of wildness, of craziness in the air, of pent-up frustration, of adrenaline — a wanting-to-fight-back feeling.”

Yea that was very helpful as you can see above. That was a 20th century answer and not a good one to a 21st problem.


I was a journalist for nearly 30 years and covered a few riots. What you see on TV isn't anything like what's going on, the chaos and fear, and lost of panic. Over the years we would undergo demonstration training with police. To prove a point, the trainers had some gun owners come by and armed them with paint ball guns. Then, with us watching, staged a riot, just exploded as riots do and they were screaming insults, threateningly waving signs, sticks, spitting....just like the real full meal deal.
They gun owners all had the same reactions, they backed up rather awkwardly then one pulled a paint gun, then all of them. Then they were out of paint balls and only about two rioters were hit. The police said this crew of gun owners was 'above average.

The thinking of the Royal Canadian Police is that if you have one tool and no training, you will use that one tool which would, in the case above, would have been inappropriate and a waste of ammunition. We like to think we could remain calm, but I can assure everyone, unless you have training, not just experience you will not. The flight or fight syndrome is more powerful than a few bulldozers.

I will close with a description of a riot, in Montreal for no reason. A massive crowd, a hot sweltering night, a bottle smashes and "boom" suddenly people are running past...in all directions. A small bomb goes off, smoke rises, you are knocked face down from behind, your hand stepped on. More small explosions, you rise to your feet just in time to get a whiff of rotting peppers and your eyes begin to water. You try to head for the edge, or "out" and find you are being propelled by the crowd, not everyone going the same way.
Now there is more smoke, the smell of plastic or something burning, you are slammed against the side of a car, it's windows smashed, it is where the smoke is coming from. You see an opening in people and lunge for it only to smash your face into someone's back, who turns to retaliate. But you're down again and he moves off. Then there is an opening and you half crouch half run for what seems like a 100 yard dash....and finally you have space, you are not touching anyone and have your back to a wall and shoulder in a corner. Your shirt has no buttons, one knee is bleeding through the ripped pants, your left hand is hurting, no numb for some reason. Sirens wail for the first time. It has been four minutes since you heard the bottle break.
 
The saddest part is that the gun-grabbing, NRA-hating Left is taking advantage of these kids and capitalizing on their fear and pain, and that's just plain predatory.
They are duping children and indoctrinating their not-even-yet-fully-formed brains into thinking that the NRA is a terrorist organization directly responsible for Parkland, when in FACT, is was a catastrophic failure of law enforcement, school officials and the FBI, in service of Obama and Eric Holder's "Promise" initiative.

And money. Let's not be coy about where this all leads.

Yeah, 'cause teenagers can't think for themselves, huh? They can't tell right from wrong, huh? And you DO realize that Parkland is far from the first school shooting, don't you? With the vast majority of school shootings, law enforcement had little or no warning that there was any problem beforehand with the shooter(s).

BTW, since you seem to feel that teenagers can't know right from wrong, I take it that you're opposed to ANY teenager (under the age of 18) being charged as an adult for felony crimes? 'Cause if you think that we should indeed be able to charge fifteen-to-seventeen year-olds as adults for felony crimes, that means that you DO believe they know right from wrong...and that they were fully aware of what they were doing when protesting against the we-care-more-about-guns-than-kids NRA.
 
YOU, as the OP, separated them out...it was clearly 150,000 with an additional 150,000. So dont blame me for your writing.

And yeah, it is awful that kids have to experience that...just like it's awful that they have to experience the men/fathers beating their mothers and being in car accidents where other people or family members are killed.

Nobody wants to expose kids to those things but they are realities of their world. We need to stop spouses from beating spouses, we need to recognize that more kids die in vehicle accidents than from guns and gain some perspective, we need to find out why so many males, in the past 18 yrs, have failed to control themselves and these losers are acting out blaming everyone else for their problems, their resentment and jealousy, their failures in life, etc.

That is the problem...how are we producing these loser males that cant handle their emotions in a socially acceptable manner?

What I posted was: "Since Columbine alone, more than 150,000 minors have been shot in the United States. Additionally, 150,000 students in at least 170 elementary, middle, and high school have experienced school shootings."

I know that this may challenge your reading ability, but the first 150K refers to ALL minors who have been shot - which number includes all who were either wounded or killed...and statistically speaking, the number of wounded almost always far outstrips the number of those killed. For instance, look at the Las Vegas shooting - there were 48 victims killed, but over 500 wounded.

Next time, instead of only trying to determine what's wrong with what the other guy says, strive to determine BOTH what is right AND what is wrong...because if you don't try to objectively determine both sides of the story, how can you possibly be accurate in your judgement?
 
Yeah, 'cause teenagers can't think for themselves, huh? They can't tell right from wrong, huh? And you DO realize that Parkland is far from the first school shooting, don't you? With the vast majority of school shootings, law enforcement had little or no warning that there was any problem beforehand with the shooter(s).

BTW, since you seem to feel that teenagers can't know right from wrong, I take it that you're opposed to ANY teenager (under the age of 18) being charged as an adult for felony crimes? 'Cause if you think that we should indeed be able to charge fifteen-to-seventeen year-olds as adults for felony crimes, that means that you DO believe they know right from wrong...and that they were fully aware of what they were doing when protesting against the we-care-more-about-guns-than-kids NRA.

Geez, so many straw men, so little time!
No, children can't see around corners.
Yes, the Left is counting on exactly that.
Yes, children are very impressionable.
Yes, the Left is counting on that.
11 kids die every day because their not-yet-fully-formed-brains can't tell them they are not invincible and they text and drive. We've all been kids and anyone with a drop of intellectual honesty knows that kids do stupid ****.
Because THEY'RE KIDS.

Knowing right from wrong is different than making the right choices. Spare me the b.s. about anyone not caring about kids being shot in school and spare me the b.s. that the reason why 17 people died in Parkland was the NRA.
 
So far, we've seen excuse after excuse foisted upon us by the NRA and the gun-rights crowd, claims that the marches were all orchestrated by Hollywood millionaires and "elites" and George Soros and that the "anti-gun" crowd is manipulating the kids.

What have we not seen from the Right? Any acknowledgement whatsoever that maybe, just maybe the high-schoolers who are marching are doing so because they WANT to end gun violence, because they WANT to feel safe when they go to school, because they do NOT want to be victims or to see their friends become victims of gun violence.

It's as if the Right thinks that high-schoolers can't possibly think for themselves. Of course, if that was the case, then there would be a media war (not just on TV, but all over the internet, too) for the minds of the kids...and many more of them would be supporting the gun-rights agenda. Problem is, the kids CAN think for themselves - and while they don't care as much as adults do about politics, they DO care about the violence happening all around them.

Here's some more information to consider:

  • Since Columbine alone, more than 150,000 minors have been shot in the United States. Additionally, 150,000 students in at least 170 elementary, middle, and high school have experienced school shootings.
  • In real economic terms, the annual cost of gun violence to children alone is at least $21 billion.
  • Nearly 60% of all high school students report fears of a mass shooting at their school or in their community.
  • Nearly 40% of children exposed to a shooting will develop post-traumatic stress disorder.
  • Guns are now the third-leading cause of death for all Americans under age 18.

All those on the "gun-rights" side who want little if any regulation of firearms, y'all really should consider which is more important: your 'right' to have as many of whatever types of firearms you want without anyone telling you what you can or cannot have...OR you can allow our children to have a chance to go to school in safety (instead of attending in the only national school system on the planet where it is necessary for the students to participate in "active shooter drills"). What is more precious to you? Your AR-15 (instead of "just" a regular hunting rifle), or the lives of our schoolkids? And NO, don't tell me that such is just an "appeal to emotion" - remember, homicide IS the third-leading cause of death for teenagers in America.


If you want the "statistics" you cited to have any credibility, you'll have to do better than getting them from the Gifford's Foundation

For anyone interested in our REAL homicide rate, the streets are not awash in blood & the sky is not falling.

There are currently more firearms in America than ever before...

But...

Homicides are at a 51 year low.

Additionally, homicides plummeted by 49% AFTER the Clinton Era Assault weapons ban expired.

Therefore, those scary firearms are not the problem


"FBI: US Homicide Rate at 51-Year Low"
https://mises.org/wire/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low
Public Unaware that Homicide Rates Have Fallen
EXCERPT "As Pew has reported in recent years, in fact, the American public is "unaware" that the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. And while Pew doesn't report on it, it's also a safe bet that the public is also unaware that homicide rates have collapsed as total gun ownership in the United States has increased significantly."CONTINUED

Remember, the Gun Ban crowd cares nothing about our overall homicide rate.

Their goal is to ban guns.....ALL guns:



- "Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of privately owned firearms is the goal." - Janet Reno. Good morning America Dec 10, 1993.


- "WATCH: Gun Control Activist Gives Perfect Reason Not To Give Into Their Demands"
https://www.dailywire.com/news/2865...lywire.com&utm_term=68804&utm_content=2209149
EXCERPT "When they give us that inch, that bump stock ban, we will take a mile."CONTINUED
 
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