• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The next Zimmerman (almost)[W:65]

Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

So his has nothing to do with race but it is more with their maturity level.

Absolutely. It's why I cited myself when I was a 17 year old smarmy douchebag prick as an example of a white kid being the same way. It's not a racial thing, it's a maturity thing. The Op got into a dick measuring contest with a kid. That's a no-win situation for an adult, IMO.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

I am not blaming violence for the violence in the world.

This nation, however, is affected by it.

This nation violent roots are a lot deeper than hip hop. As a matter of fact "gangster rap" died out back in the 90's. The hip hop artist today rap more about money, women they been with and partying. As a matter of fact, the hottest hip hop artist out there right now is a guy name Macklemore and he is white.
 
The OP simply described a typical
confrontation between two primate males trying to establish "alpha" status in a specific situation.

Contrary to popular opinion, humans aren't that different from other primates in their behaviors.


We're not Chimpanzees and it's ok to expect a higher standard of behaviour from a young adult human.

And the male vs male " alpha " status isn't just relegated to primates. I swear, I JUST got done watching some lame nature show on mountain goats.

Males butting each other off 60 ft cliffs to assert their dominance.

We're NOT apes, nor did we descend from apes, so it perfectly reasonable to expect another human NOT to cuss you out, NOT to drop kick a perfectly good basketball ( the higher end basketballs can be RUINED with a good drop kick ) and not to act like a insolent child.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Absolutely. It's why I cited myself when I was a 17 year old smarmy douchebag prick as an example of a white kid being the same way. It's not a racial thing, it's a maturity thing. The Op got into a dick measuring contest with a kid. That's a no-win situation for an adult, IMO.

Exactly, and don't get me wrong, I not that naive to not notice that there are issues in the inner city, but at the same time what the OP ranted about is pretty much universal.
 
We're not Chimpanzees

Both participants in the OP's interaction were engaging in chimp-like behavior. Why is your ciriticism limited to the younger chimp?

And the male vs male " alpha " status isn't just relegated to primates.

Never said it was. The alpha behaviors in primates were what was on display in the OP, though.


We're NOT apes, nor did we descend from apes...

:lol:
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

LOL so it's "bad attitudes that causes poverty" that is such bogus bull crap.

Not being able to find a decent job causes poverty. Having a bad attitude makes it harder to find a job.
 
Both participants in the OP's interaction were engaging in
chimp-like behavior. Why is your ciriticism limited to the younger chimp?



Never said it was. The alpha behaviors in primates were what was on display in the OP, though.




:lol:

Going off of your avatar are you NOT an American ?

And no, there's hasn't been enough evidence to tie modern day homosapiens to monkees.

We can pull up fossils of 50 million year old flying lizards the size of a raven but we're at a loss when it comes to complete skeletal remains of the missing link ?

Yea right.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

I'm saying you are assigning additional blame for things that you have no way of knowing about these kids and that they are nothing more than racial stereotypes. You can stop at the behavior and judge it unacceptable if you chose but to go beyond that and talk about how poorly they were raised, or that they are gonna end up stuck in the ghetto or whatever...has no basis in anything other than your own prejudice.

What additional blame is he assigning? Do you think he's judged them more harshly because they're black? Do you have enough information to make that assessment?
 
Going off of your avatar are you NOT an American ?

While being a fan of English humor is pretty un-American, I do happen to be an American.

And no, there's hasn't been enough evidence to tie modern day homosapiens to monkees.

Jeez, they weren't that bad.

4kees.jpg

We can pull up fossils of 50 million year old flying lizards the size of a raven but we're at a loss when it comes to complete skeletal remains of the missing link ?

Yea right.

:lol:
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

What additional blame is he assigning? Do you think he's judged them more harshly because they're black? Do you have enough information to make that assessment?

Man you are tenacious. Tell me something. Why are you pursuing this so hard? Do you want to change my mind?
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Absolutely. It's why I cited myself when I was a 17 year old smarmy douchebag prick as an example of a white kid being the same way. It's not a racial thing, it's a maturity thing. The Op got into a dick measuring contest with a kid. That's a no-win situation for an adult, IMO.

When did you turn 18?
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Man you are tenacious. Tell me something. Why are you pursuing this so hard? Do you want to change my mind?

Maybe, or at least understand where you're coming from. When I was a kid, my mother told me I would argue with a fence post if I had something on my mind...
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Maybe, or at least understand where you're coming from. When I was a kid, my mother told me I would argue with a fence post if I had something on my mind...

Funny. I kind of respect it in a weird way.

I feel like I have said this in just about every way I possibly can, but WTH , one more try.

Let's say you are from the south so I decide you are a dumb hick, or you are pretty woman so I decide you are empty headed bitch, or you are a younger man so I decide you have nothing of value to say. These are comparatively trivial examples but I hope they help to illustrate the point. You burden these people with your assumptions about the capabilities about their character etc, now they are tasked with convincing you that you are mistaken about them. Is this okay with you? Or is it better that we hold people responsible for who they actually are rather then who we, with very little evidence, decidethey are. Do you agree that this is something we should try to avoid doing to one another? On a much larger and more impactful scale this is what Math is doing to these kids. If you do not agree with this concept then we really don't have anything to talk about.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

This nation violent roots are a lot deeper than hip hop. As a matter of fact "gangster rap" died out back in the 90's. The hip hop artist today rap more about money, women they been with and partying. As a matter of fact, the hottest hip hop artist out there right now is a guy name Macklemore and he is white.

Thanks for the info :roll:
 
I have to say, as a white man, I'm ****ing embarrassed to be associated with incredibly whiny pissing and moaning I see from other white people these days.

It's ****ing amazing that some people can say "Black people need to get over it already!" in the same breath where they continue to piss and moan about Zimmerman being "treated unfairly" by the mean old media :(.
 
I have to say, as a white man, I'm ****ing embarrassed to be associated
with incredibly whiny pissing and moaning I see from other white people these days.

It's ****ing amazing that some people can say "Black people need to get over it already!" in the same breath where they continue to piss and moan about Zimmerman being "treated unfairly" by the mean old media :(.

White guilt heh ? It's absolutuely useless.

I'm proud to be white, proud of my Scottish and Irish heritage, proud of what the Caucastion people have produced, invented, proud of the many technological assets they have added to our society and NO, I'm NEVER EMBARASSED because of my race.

I just think your'e a bit disconected with the corrupt aspects of the hip hop and ghetto culture and their impact on the actions and behaviour of young black males....and some not so young.

And it would be good for you, " as a White man" to venture into areas predominantly accesed by those youth.

Trayvon died because he turned what could have been just a verbal conflict into a physical conflict.

He was young and stupid, and thought that an ass whippin was a reasonable reaction to being followed or " profiled" by a " creepy ass cracker".

He leaened the hard way that it wasn't.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Since you associate the behavior with their race (despite evidence that white teenagers might have reacted the same way to your behavior), you are criticizing them about their race. I wouldn't be surprised if your own sense of racial superiority came across to them from the start, thus triggering their negative reaction to your overt attempts to exert that perceived superiority on them.

This is the only problem I have with his criticism. The actions of those teenagers are not foreign to other races. I love to fish out here in Texas and I go to relax and get my mind off work. However there are times when young white kids would come to the area where I am fishing drinking beer and playing loud rock music (many times they would play hip hop as well). I would politely tell them could they take that somewhere else. They look at me like they want to say something but I think they think twice because I am physically intimidating at 6'4" 330 pounds. Anyway by the end of my fishing trip, the beach area is loaded with their garbage. A lot of times I would bring a trash bag with me because I want to keep the area clean.

My point is that at the end of the day, I didn't see them as being white, I saw them as being immature teenagers who is just showing out. I see this behavior in black kids, hispanic kids, asian kids etc. So his has nothing to do with race but it is more with their maturity level.

There are a couple of things you and others are missing. The first is the simple rule of thumb that just because many are doing something doesn't mean it's right. In this case, while you say it's "normal", we both know it's wrong. Hence, it should be corrected rather than tolerated.

The other point comes from applied statistics. If you look at the numbers then you clearly see blacks coming out worst in terms of percent in jail, GPA and graduation rate, unemployment, kids born out of wedlock, etc. While the other races don't have a spot clean record, there's no denying the noticeable gaps. This holds for the teens as well. Statistics show that school suspensions have a distribution similar to those for crime. In particular, black kids are about three times more likely to be suspended from school.
Schools seek remedies to racial suspension gap | Twin Cities Daily Planet
This clearly suggests that they are more likely to act inappropriately.

Lastly, I'm not trying to straighten these kids out for ****s and giggles or winning a dick size contest, as you have repeatedly suggested. Many black kids are stuck in the cycle of poverty because they're either raised poorly or neglectfully. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why blacks often make derogatory remarks continuously towards others, including even their friends and family. This negativity is totally unnecessary and is what's holding them back.
 
Last edited:
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

There are a couple of things you and others are missing. The first is the simple rule of thumb that just because many are doing something doesn't mean it' right. In this case, while you say it's "normal", we both know it's wrong. Hence, it should be corrected rather than tolerated.

The other point comes from applied statistics. If you look at the numbers then you clearly see blacks coming out worst in terms of percent in jail, GPA and graduation rate, unemployment, kids born out of wedlock, etc. While the other races don't have a spot clean record, there's no denying the noticeable gaps. This holds for the teens as well. Statistics show that school suspensions have a distribution similar to those for crime. In particular, black kids are about three times more likely to be suspended from school.
Schools seek remedies to racial suspension gap | Twin Cities Daily Planet
This clearly suggests that they are more likely to act inappropriately.

Lastly, I'm not trying to straighten these kids out for ****s and giggles or winning a dick size contest, as you have repeatedly suggested. Many black kids are stuck in the cycle of poverty because they're either raised poorly or neglectfully. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why blacks often make derogatory remarks continuously towards others, including even their friends and family. This negativity is totally unnecessary and is what's holding them back.

And you based your assessment of THESE kids as being destined for prison or the ghetto on behavior that really gave you no sound reason to assume that was their fate. You said, they are littering and mouthing off.....so all these other things about them must be true. What would you have thought was destined for white boys who behaved that way. Would you assume that they were going to end up in the ghetto? That's what makes it appear as if that choice was racially motivated because your story does not present any other information than their skin color that you could have based that kind of assessment regarding these boys fate on.

As for your intentions, I don't challenge those. But the best intended people in the world can still have racially charged views that they simply aren't recognizing.
 
Last edited:
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

So I'm downtown at the basketball court just shooting around when a couple of black teens (16 or 17) I've seen a few times there arrive. Interestingly, their drink of choice was a cup of water from Starbucks loaded with packets of sugar they took. I mention the drink, because the first thing one does before wanting to shoot with me is pour four more packets of sugar into his drink and drop the empty packets right in the middle of the court. Before shooting again, I said to him with a stern tone "Excuse me, are you going to pick up your trash? There is a trash can right by where you entered." He picked up a few pieces, not quite all, crumpled them up and then I saw him drop it on the edge of the court. While this was incomplete, he at least got the message that I was annoyed by his sense of entitlement to litter.

Two minutes later he suggests playing a game called 50, which I accepted since I wanted to burn a few calories. Throughout two games, the same guy who was littering was spewing disrespectful remarks continuously, including insults every time I scored and perverted remarks at just about every female who was walking by and under the age of 40. After I won the first game, he takes out his cell phone with some pocket speakers, turns on some (c)rap thug music and says he's going to win the next game.

Getting increasingly annoyed at his disrespectful behavior, I picked up my game and smacked the ball pretty hard on a couple of blocks in the second game. With an attitude, he cries foul and says "nigga, cool yo azz." That's when I went off and told the kid that if he wants respect then he needs to show it. Avoiding profanity, I told him that everything about his behavior is going to make him destined to live in the ghetto if he keeps it up, recapping what he had done wrong. He says "I don't have to listen to this ****" and proceeds to leave. I told him to take his Starbucks cup with him, for which he replies "if you so worried about it then you do something about it."

Thinking it's over, I resume shooting around, only to have him dropkick my basketball as soon as I miss. Luckily, it stayed within the fence, so I walked over to get it. I noticed the other guy then wandering towards where my bag was, despite the fact that they were already by the exit, thus I walk over towards my bag as well. Low and behold, he immediately starts accusing me of only going towards my bag because he's black. I asked why in the heck he expected my to trust them near my things when his buddy had just attempted to punt my ball as far as he could. I resumed telling them their behavior was going to get them into trouble when the main punk then approaches wanting to fight.

While trying to get in my face and start a fight, he hilariously accuses me of trying to initiate contact for having my arm extended as I'm backing away. I warned him that if he threw any punches that I'd make sure he was arrested, especially since I didn't want any legal issues for an altercation with a minor. Then some teen girl he knew who was in the area tells him to cut it out. He tells me "you lucky she here" to which I reply "wow, such a gentleman."

Right after all this crap was over, I was thanking God I didn't become the next Zimmerman. Fortunately, had the situation escalated, I would have had an even more solid defense than Zimmerman. It turns out, in the adjacent playground, a father had been recording the event on his phone, which easily would have shown that I made attempts to avoid physical confrontation. Wanting to play basketball in a respectful atmosphere, I saw this as an opportunity to teach some teens the same points Bill O'Reilly has been trying to get across this past week about this culture. The kid clearly sees nothing wrong with disrespectful behavior. What more can I do to straighten out black youth besides adopting?

And you based your assessment of THESE kids as being destined for prison or the ghetto on behavior that really gave you no sound reason to assume that was their fate. You said, they are littering and mouthing off.....so all these other things about them must be true. What would you have thought was destined for white boys who behaved that way. Would you assume that they were going to end up in the ghetto? That's what makes it appear as if that choice was racially motivated because your story does not present any other information than their skin color that you could have based that kind of assessment regarding these boys fate on.

As for your intentions, I don't challenge those. But the best intended people in the world can still have racially charged views that they simply aren't recognizing.

Read the bolded words from my OP. :ws

Given a loser caucasian and loser black, give me your prediction on whether each is more likely to choose the trailer park or the ghetto to live.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Many black kids are stuck in the cycle of poverty because they're either raised poorly or neglectfully.

:lol: and you think that bitching at them for leaving some sugar packets on the ground will miraculously fix these problems?

Is that in the "It's so damned crazy it just might work" school of thought?
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Read the bolded words from my OP. :ws

Given a loser caucasian and loser black, give me your prediction on whether each is more likely to choose the trailer park or the ghetto to live.


Your response really doesn't directly address or even really acknowledge my points.
 
Back
Top Bottom