The next Zimmerman (almost)[W:65]

[SheWolf]

Prejudice. Yep. I agree. The facts are the facts.


Your statistics are all negative, but that doesn't mean positive statistics pertaining to the black population do not exist. But that is irrelevant.

What is more important is how you view black people as a result of the statistics. You can take those statistics and use them to promote positive change or you can use them to justify racial prejudice.



And people like you always judge black leaders and demand black people progress, and people like you are a huge part of the problem. You need to progress, stop being prejudice, call out your leaders for being racially inflammatory and acting like the only real victims of (reverse) racism, and then maybe you'd realize that many black people take issue with those statistics and want positive change. You're in the way until you can learn to stop blaming skin color and saying black people suck at everything.

Prejudice? Facts are facts my lady. Blacks suck at being beneficial to society more than any other race in America. End of story. I'm looking at this through a strictly analytic lens. When others can do the same, instead of concentrating on the emotion of the argument, maybe blacks will make some progress. Most black leaders concentrate on their perceived victimization, on the oppression they allegedly face now, etc, etc. They need to concentrate on the fact that an unacceptable percentage of their children are born out of wedlock, that an inordinate amount of their men age 18-30 are in prison or have been in prison, and they need to concentrate on the fact that they are killing each other off at a much higher clip than any other race.

 

[Hypersonic]

He's right you know how blacks will do ya

LOL

No but seriously since it was said that Zimmerman got his ass whooped by a skinny Trayvon Martin, Math may get the same treatment. I don't think it's smart to be aggressive when you're outnumbered.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

outnumbered and dealing with savages might need a nine eh?

 

[Hypersonic]

Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
Prejudice? Facts are facts my lady. Blacks suck at being beneficial to society more than any other race in America. End of story. I'm looking at this through a strictly analytic lens. When others can do the same, instead of concentrating on the emotion of the argument, maybe blacks will make some progress. Most black leaders concentrate on their perceived victimization, on the oppression they allegedly face now, etc, etc. They need to concentrate on the fact that an unacceptable percentage of their children are born out of wedlock, that an inordinate amount of their men age 18-30 are in prison or have been in prison, and they need to concentrate on the fact that they are killing each other off at a much higher clip than any other race.

Spoken like a true racist.

 

[Hypersonic]

outnumbered and dealing with savages might need a nine eh?

Who defines "savagery?" There are plenty of young kids that have bad behavior, but to call them savage is a misnomer to bad behavior especially in the case of the OP.

 

[SheWolf]

you keep saying how much you like facts, maybe you should look at the facts of Jewish genocide verses American slavery.

You can't figure out why all oppressed people don't turn out the same.

I have never seen seen for myself or heard of the attitude you are displaying towards black people really occurring in Germany towards the Jewish after WWII. Germany has made a lot of restitution towards Holocaust survivors, apologies, memorials, dedications, historic sites, museums, etc. and there is an obvious importance in remembering and learning. It's part of the landscape and bombed out buildings we don't want rebuilt.

In America, it's not even close to being the same. You tend to get pissed or act like it's taboo to talk about the past. The history is all blurred. People argue how much slavery had to do with the Civil War, and they act like they want to celebrate civil war.

It's really confusing.

I have no idea how that protests racism.......
Anyway, I wasn't claiming that your race could be exterminated. I was stating the fact that Jews have faced the threat of and attempt of extermination numerous times in history while blacks have not.

 

[Hypersonic]

you keep saying how much you like facts, maybe you should look at the facts of Jewish genocide verses American slavery.

You can't figure out why all oppressed people don't turn out the same.

I have never seen seen for myself or heard of the attitude you are displaying towards black people really occurring in Germany towards the Jewish after WWII. Germany has made a lot of restitution towards Holocaust survivors, apologies, memorials, dedications, historic sites, museums, etc. and there is an obvious importance in remembering and learning. It's part of the landscape and bombed out buildings we don't want rebuilt.

In America, it's not even close to being the same. You tend to get pissed or act like it's taboo to talk about the past. The history is all blurred. People argue how much slavery had to do with the Civil War, and they act like they want to celebrate civil war.

It's really confusing.

He fails to see because he doesn't want to.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

You can't figure out why all oppressed people don't turn out the same.

Yeah, the main problem with his comparison of black Americans to other groups is that it assumes the problems black Americans face are due to their inferiority. He simplifies the wildly different experiences that oppressed groups have had in the United States - treating them as if they were all the same and thus, those who did not come out of that oppression perfectly are some how inferior as a race or ethnicity. It's just an incredibly oversimplified analysis of history that inevitably leads to racism.

 

[John Liberty]

I'll respond to the non-emotionally charged, less bullcrap part of your post. Because you don't know any of those people you mentioned either.
Anyway, to your point of "white people just do it better". Yeah, we do. So do Hispanics, Chinese, Japanese, and Jewish people. All of these races were treated as bad or worse than blacks at some point in history. Some more recent than blacks. Yet they are here in America thriving. Hispanics may be lagging behind a little, but nowhere NEAR on the level blacks are. The FACT of the matter is that black people lag behind almost every race in America in education, crime rates, out of wedlock births, etc. You can look at it through an emotional lens and just call it racism all you want. Its a fact.

I agree with a lot of things you've said, but I'm sorry I HATE the generalizations you are making. I know some very successful black people. It's true that some black people have a chip on their shoulder and accuse almost everything of being racist, but not all are doing that. E.W. Jackson a guy running for lieutenant governor in my state, though I disagree with him on many things, is not like that. He gave an excellent speech about race baiters. You would make your point a lot better if you were not generalizing an entire race, because that's what is coming across as racist to these people. Granted their definition of racism is screwed up...you are being stereotypical not racist(there is a difference), however it is not good to condone stereotypes as your view of an entire race.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

you don't know any of those people you mentioned either.

When you wrote this originally, I didn't bother clicking the notification of you quoting me to read this because I knew that it would be garbage, but I just saw someone quote it and felt compelled to respond only to this part.

Actually, MTP, I do know many of the people I mentioned and I know of millions more. I'm from Chicago and I'm connected to a lot of the movements in that city to change the way education, crime and other issues are dealt with by the city when it comes to its black and Hispanic residents. Because I'm connected to movements in Chicago, I'm also loosely connected to movements in other cities throughout the country. Within those movements are thousands of black Americans who do the things I described or who contribute in other ways to their communities. Knowing all of those people, it sickens me to read your posts. Truly, it sickens me.

In any case, I truly hope that whatever is causing you to express such vitriol for black Americans will work itself out. Indeed, I wish you no ill will because the things that you are expressing in this thread harm you most of all. You see, many of the black people you're denigrating are working right this moment to contribute positively to the world in spite of the discouraging comments people like you make about them. They know that many people like you are saying that they "suck at being beneficial to society more than any other race in America." They know that many people like you are saying that they are less than white people and every other race. And, even knowing that - even knowing that no matter how much good they do, people like you are going to deny their existence and denigrate them while doing nothing to work with them - they continue with their work because of their character and their strength in the face of racism. They continue because ultimately - to them - the education, lower crime rates, jobs and business that they fight for are more important than the petty racism of outsiders.

 

[SheWolf]

Black people were more oppressed in America than Jewish people. Jewish people were more oppressed in Europe than in America.

When Angela Merkle goes to Israel and makes a speech on Holocaust Day, my experience isn't Europeans sitting around saying out of the other side of their mouth that there really is something wrong with Jewish people and using racial slurs or racially charged language directed at Jewish people.

I don't really think Jewish people changed or needed to change so Europeans would be more comfortable around them. Europeans changed.

It's obvious he thinks negatively about black people and feels he is highly justified in thinking badly of them, and I consider that wrong.

How he reacts to racial statistics is up to him.

How he sees the world is on him. I am sure he wouldn't be all for America paying restitution and having memorial days for the victims of slavery. Martin Luther King Day becoming a national holiday caused an uproar. Some people continue to complain about black history month. And yet those things have occurred in Germany for the Jewish victims of the Holocaust and genocide.

Yeah, the main problem with his comparison of black Americans to other groups is that it assumes the problems black Americans face are due to their inferiority. He simplifies the wildly different experiences that oppressed groups have had in the United States - treating them as if they were all the same and thus, those who did not come out of that oppression perfectly are some how inferior as a race or ethnicity. It's just an incredibly oversimplified analysis of history that inevitably leads to racism.

 

[SheWolf]

How is somebody's definition if racism screwed up?

I agree with a lot of things you've said, but I'm sorry I HATE the generalizations you are making. I know some very successful black people. It's true that some black people have a chip on their shoulder and accuse almost everything of being racist, but not all are doing that. E.W. Jackson a guy running for lieutenant governor in my state, though I disagree with him on many things, is not like that. He gave an excellent speech about race baiters. You would make your point a lot better if you were not generalizing an entire race, because that's what is coming across as racist to these people. Granted their definition of racism is screwed up...you are being stereotypical not racist(there is a difference), however it is not good to condone stereotypes as your view of an entire race.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Are you serious with this response?

As a heart attack

 

[MarineTpartier]

Prejudice. Yep. I agree. The facts are the facts.


Your statistics are all negative, but that doesn't mean positive statistics pertaining to the black population do not exist. But that is irrelevant.

What is more important is how you view black people as a result of the statistics. You can take those statistics and use them to promote positive change or you can use them to justify racial prejudice.



And people like you always judge black leaders and demand black people progress, and people like you are a huge part of the problem. You need to progress, stop being prejudice, call out your leaders for being racially inflammatory and acting like the only real victims of (reverse) racism, and then maybe you'd realize that many black people take issue with those statistics and want positive change. You're in the way until you can learn to stop blaming skin color and saying black people suck at everything.

Stats are stats. Other races in this world, in this country even, have been discriminated against. Others have been put in containment camps (Japanese), others are viewed as "illegal" everytime a white person sees them (Hispanics), and yet they are all contributing to society more efficiently than black people are. That's the way it is. It's not prejudice. That's what most on this thread can't get past. If you receive a bad grade on a school assignment due to your poor work, do you believe that is due to your color, sex, or just due to the fact that you failed to complete the assignment in a satisfactory manner? Most people would believe it's due to the fact that they turned in a poor assignment. However, it seems many on this thread don't want to hear that.

 

[MarineTpartier]

you keep saying how much you like facts, maybe you should look at the facts of Jewish genocide verses American slavery.

You can't figure out why all oppressed people don't turn out the same.

I have never seen seen for myself or heard of the attitude you are displaying towards black people really occurring in Germany towards the Jewish after WWII. Germany has made a lot of restitution towards Holocaust survivors, apologies, memorials, dedications, historic sites, museums, etc. and there is an obvious importance in remembering and learning. It's part of the landscape and bombed out buildings we don't want rebuilt.

In America, it's not even close to being the same. You tend to get pissed or act like it's taboo to talk about the past. The history is all blurred. People argue how much slavery had to do with the Civil War, and they act like they want to celebrate civil war.

It's really confusing.

Black people haven't been apologized to? Black people haven't had laws put in place specifically for them? Affirmative action doesn't exist? Heck, we have a National holiday for a great black leader. We have a Black History Month.
IMO, blacks shouldn't get the treatment Jews did. You know, due to that whole genocide thing Jews went through that blacks didn't.

 

[MarineTpartier]

I agree with a lot of things you've said, but I'm sorry I HATE the generalizations you are making. I know some very successful black people. It's true that some black people have a chip on their shoulder and accuse almost everything of being racist, but not all are doing that. E.W. Jackson a guy running for lieutenant governor in my state, though I disagree with him on many things, is not like that. He gave an excellent speech about race baiters. You would make your point a lot better if you were not generalizing an entire race, because that's what is coming across as racist to these people. Granted their definition of racism is screwed up...you are being stereotypical not racist(there is a difference), however it is not good to condone stereotypes as your view of an entire race.

As I've said to others man. Look at the stats. Black people do not contribute to society as efficiently as other races. That's all there is to it. Sure, I'm using generalizations. I have to. I'm speaking in broad terms. I'm speaking of races as a whole. Not individuals. I am fully aware of the fact that there are many successful black people out there. Heck, our POTUS is a good example. I disagree with almost everything the man does. However, he overcame having no father, being poor, etc, etc to become President. That is to be applauded. My point is that black people AS A WHOLE, are lagging behind the rest of the country. There is no disputing that.

 

[MarineTpartier]

When you wrote this originally, I didn't bother clicking the notification of you quoting me to read this because I knew that it would be garbage, but I just saw someone quote it and felt compelled to respond only to this part.

Actually, MTP, I do know many of the people I mentioned and I know of millions more. I'm from Chicago and I'm connected to a lot of the movements in that city to change the way education, crime and other issues are dealt with by the city when it comes to its black and Hispanic residents. Because I'm connected to movements in Chicago, I'm also loosely connected to movements in other cities throughout the country. Within those movements are thousands of black Americans who do the things I described or who contribute in other ways to their communities. Knowing all of those people, it sickens me to read your posts. Truly, it sickens me.

In any case, I truly hope that whatever is causing you to express such vitriol for black Americans will work itself out. Indeed, I wish you no ill will because the things that you are expressing in this thread harm you most of all. You see, many of the black people you're denigrating are working right this moment to contribute positively to the world in spite of the discouraging comments people like you make about them. They know that many people like you are saying that they "suck at being beneficial to society more than any other race in America." They know that many people like you are saying that they are less than white people and every other race. And, even knowing that - even knowing that no matter how much good they do, people like you are going to deny their existence and denigrate them while doing nothing to work with them - they continue with their work because of their character and their strength in the face of racism. They continue because ultimately - to them - the education, lower crime rates, jobs and business that they fight for are more important than the petty racism of outsiders.

Good for those that are working to be a contributing member of society. I work with many of the people you speak of. Nowhere in this country can you work with a more diverse group of Americans that I do in the Marine Corps. We have many great leaders of many different colors. As I said though, I'm speaking in general terms, not on the individual level. And in broad terms, black people lag behind every other race in this country. It's not anyone else's fault anymore. They have the benefit of laws that protect them. They have the benefit of awareness to prejudice. Despite all of this, they continue to lag. Black people actually suffered a downturn after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Out of wedlock births increased. Divorce increased. Crime increased. Black people, AS A WHOLE, are on a destructive path. It would be nice if a black leader would go against the grain when another Trayvon Martin case comes about and use the attention to try and change his race. That would be wonderful.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Good for those that are working to be a contributing member of society. I work with many of the people you speak of. Nowhere in this country can you work with a more diverse group of Americans that I do in the Marine Corps. We have many great leaders of many different colors. As I said though, I'm speaking in general terms, not on the individual level. And in broad terms, black people lag behind every other race in this country. It's not anyone else's fault anymore. They have the benefit of laws that protect them. They have the benefit of awareness to prejudice. Despite all of this, they continue to lag. Black people actually suffered a downturn after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Out of wedlock births increased. Divorce increased. Crime increased. Black people, AS A WHOLE, are on a destructive path. It would be nice if a black leader would go against the grain when another Trayvon Martin case comes about and use the attention to try and change his race. That would be wonderful.

That you're speaking "in general terms" is the problem. You've chosen to simplify the context of certain statistics to a matter of black people being inferior to all other races revealing your own ignorance on the subject and, in turn, spreading an ultimately racist message. Congratulations. I'm done with you in all aspects of this forum.

(Edited to add: You say you work with black Americans in the Corps. I would love for you to tell those black Marines word-for-word what you've written here. At least tell them, that "blacks suck at being beneficial to society more than any other race in America" to their face. And then report back here. Please.)

 

[SheWolf]

You have nearly no self awareness to the statements your making.


You almost seem to be delusional and unaware of the people your talking to. At nowhere has anybody denied there are pressing issues facing black people America. Lagging behind as you put it. Nobody is denying that.

The difference is you actions and attitude as a result of those statistics. You're not simply saying, look at these concerning statistics relating to black people, you're arguing that they haven't been oppressed much relative to other groups and for some reason, they can't thrive? Why? Because they suck. Because of their race or culture. Anybody else can and has faced worse oppression and genocide and you can't find statistics that they are lagging behind.

You are going far beyond saying, hey look at these statistics and the social concerns they raise. You are perpetuating negative attitudes towards a race for not being more like the Jewish and Japanese people, or even Hispanics.

As I've said to others man. Look at the stats. Black people do not contribute to society as efficiently as other races. That's all there is to it. Sure, I'm using generalizations. I have to. I'm speaking in broad terms. I'm speaking of races as a whole. Not individuals. I am fully aware of the fact that there are many successful black people out there. Heck, our POTUS is a good example. I disagree with almost everything the man does. However, he overcame having no father, being poor, etc, etc to become President. That is to be applauded. My point is that black people AS A WHOLE, are lagging behind the rest of the country. There is no disputing that.

 

[MarineTpartier]

That you're speaking "in general terms" is the problem. You've chosen to simplify the context of certain statistics to a matter of black people being inferior to all other races revealing your own ignorance on the subject and, in turn, spreading an ultimately racist message. Congratulations. I'm done with you in all aspects of this forum.

(Edited to add: You say you work with black Americans in the Corps. I would love for you to tell those black Marines word-for-word what you've written here. At least tell them, that "blacks suck at being beneficial to society more than any other race in America" to their face. And then report back here. Please.)

Generalizations are what we have to deal in sometimes Playdrive. How in the world would our gov't be able to function if it catered everything it does to every individual instead of groups? How would politicians steer their campaigns? How would our capitalist system work if they didn't generalize what groups of people want in certain areas? I understand their are individuals in this world. Im fully aware. Any human being that is remotely cognizant of his surroundings realizes that he exists in a world of individuals. However, being an individual only goes so far. If that were not the case, you wouldn't see the GENERAL statistics that show black people commit more crime than other races.
You would be surprised what many black Marines say about their fellow black Americans. Many of them become a Marine in order to get away from the very people that make the rest of them look bad. As I told you earlier, I must be doing something right because I was elected the Equal Opportunity Adviser for my unit of over 150 Marines. During numerous ANONYMOUS surveys that have been administered to them, they have indicated that I am doing a great job promoting equal opportunity within our unit and that no racial bias exists in our unit. I can recognized an individual. I can also recognize when a group of people have a problem. For instance, most suicides occur in college aged men. Should we waste our effort and attempt to slow down suicide in 70 year old women in order to make everyone feel good about it?

 

[MarineTpartier]

You have nearly no self awareness to the statements your making.


You almost seem to be delusional and unaware of the people your talking to. At nowhere has anybody denied there are pressing issues facing black people America. Lagging behind as you put it. Nobody is denying that.

The difference is you actions and attitude as a result of those statistics. You're not simply saying, look at these concerning statistics relating to black people, you're arguing that they haven't been oppressed much relative to other groups and for some reason, they can't thrive? Why? Because they suck. Because of their race or culture. Anybody else can and has faced worse oppression and genocide and you can't find statistics that they are lagging behind.

You are going far beyond saying, hey look at these statistics and the social concerns they raise. You are perpetuating negative attitudes towards a race for not being more like the Jewish and Japanese people, or even Hispanics.

The culture I currently live in doesn't promote being politically correct and nice about failing. When anyone fails at something, it's time to recognize there is a problem, correct it, and move on. Just because you or anyone else do not like the terminology ("they suck") that I use is of no concern to me. Basically, by saying "look at these statistics and social concerns they raise" you are saying the same thing I am. It simply has a softer tone to it. If that insults you, I do apologize. It's the way I speak. I guess I suck at relating to people that are not of the same ilk as me.