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The "New Math" More liberal "touchy-feely" (expletive deleted)

Missouri Mule

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With the liberal education establishment terrified of hurting a child's "esteem" it has come to this. Sad but true. I can remember the time when I bought a dinner from KFC and the cashier refused to take my money because the machine said I didn't owe it. She got downright annoyed with me. I finally walked out with my essentially free meal. This story was passed along to me but it rings all too true.
===================================
Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter girl took my $2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents from my pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3 pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed her discomfort and tried to tell her to just give me two quarters, but she hailed the manager for help.

While he tried to explain the transaction to her, she stood there and cried. Why do I tell you this?

Because of the evolution in teaching math since the 1950s:

Teaching Math In 1950

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?

Teaching Math In 1960

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

Teaching Math In 1970

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?


Teaching Math In 1980

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20 Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math In 1990

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20.

What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class
participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers.)

Teaching Math In 2005

Un hachero vende una carretada de madera para $100. El costo de la producción es $80 .
 

vergiss

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Uh, so what's your point? What's the new maths? It's taught in Spanish? *lost*

Also, there are those out there (such as myself) who suffer from dyscalculia. It's a learning disorder related to dyslexia and dyspraxia in which numbers are the problem, rather than letters. Those who have it can be extraordinarily good with languages, but their ability to do mathematics and logic puzzles leaves a lot to be desired. In my case, I've been grades above my level in English since starting school, but my maths was always way below par. I'd see 6 as 9, 102 as 201, even maps were reversed in my mind. I'm 17, but if you asked me what 6 times 8 was, it'd take me quite a while to figure it out. Luckily, I was able to drop the subject in 11th Grade, and rather than take regular maths in the last few semesters, I switched to Maths Applications. This is a more practical sort of maths with a focus on day-to-day usage.

Obviously, you still have to teach Maths adequately. However, be sensitive to the needs of children such as myself. I spent years convinced that I was stupid and was terrified of of stuffing up the simplest of sums.

Aah. The perils of being left-handed! :D
 

Simon W. Moon

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vergiss said:
Uh, so what's your point? What's the new maths? It's taught in Spanish? *lost*
I suspect he just wanted to bitch about the stupidity of the cashier at KFC but has some issue about posting his personal gripes in The Basement. So, instead, he decided to treat us to email glurge in case we don't get enough forwarded to us already.
 
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Mikkel

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So you're placing the blame of someone's stupidity on the liberal movement? That's absurd right there.
 

ncallaway

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That's definately not how my math class looks. I live in a blue state (Oregon), in a liberal town (Eugene), go to a liberal high school, and live in a more liberal part of town. That's still not how my math class looks. Even if they wanted to teach new stuff they can't. My math book was published in '72, I believe. I had to duct tape the thing back together.

I don't really understand where you're going with this. Like Simon said (heh, reminds me of "Simon Says". Great game, that) this looks like email garbage.
 

IValueFreedom

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Okay, for your visit to KFC, I bet the girl looked annoyed because she didn't want to deal with an unbalanced til, not because she thought you didn't owe her any money. She's has a choice to make, let you have a free meal, spend time balancing the register, or pocket the money thus stealing.
She chose the lazy way, it wasn't stupidity.

As for the 50 cent girl, I'm sure she just started crying because she was embarrased. People don't like their inabilities to be pointed out. She was also probably new. And with the way you wrote this email, I'm sure you didn't have the nicest look on your face at the time.

"because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands."

I don't know a single teacher that would lead a child like this for a supposedly open ended question where there are no wrong answers. Plus, I believe it's good for a child to be asked like that, they will learn the math just as effectively if not more as well as work on their imagination, problem solving skills, and empathy (something you forgot to learn). These are all good traits.

You're just frustrated.
 
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IValueFreedom

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ncallaway said:
I live in a blue state (Oregon), in a liberal town (Eugene), go to a liberal high school, and live in a more liberal part of town.
That's funny. I live in Corvallis and attended school at OSU. I'm down in Eugene all the time during the school year to party.

It's true, UO has better parties, but OSU has better girls ;)
 

Missouri Mule

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Mikkel said:
So you're placing the blame of someone's stupidity on the liberal movement? That's absurd right there.
You got it. Gold star for you! Absurd only if you believe our educational establishment is doing a good job. Only a liberal could possibly believe that.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Missouri Mule said:
You got it. Gold star for you! Absurd only if you believe our educational establishment is doing a good job. Only a liberal could possibly believe that.
I take it that in your mind, your unsupported assertions and these empty declarations constitute evidence for your case. Perhaps we should blame your educational system instead of you.
 

shuamort

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Missouri Mule said:
I can remember the time when I bought a dinner from KFC and the cashier refused to take my money because the machine said I didn't owe it.
===================================
Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58.
Must be a liberal education that's taught you to eat at these places. Or drawn an inference between liberal mathematics education (if there were such a thing) and minimum wage workers at fast food joints.
 

Missouri Mule

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vergiss said:
Uh, so what's your point? What's the new maths? It's taught in Spanish? *lost*

Also, there are those out there (such as myself) who suffer from dyscalculia. It's a learning disorder related to dyslexia and dyspraxia in which numbers are the problem, rather than letters. Those who have it can be extraordinarily good with languages, but their ability to do mathematics and logic puzzles leaves a lot to be desired. In my case, I've been grades above my level in English since starting school, but my maths was always way below par. I'd see 6 as 9, 102 as 201, even maps were reversed in my mind. I'm 17, but if you asked me what 6 times 8 was, it'd take me quite a while to figure it out. Luckily, I was able to drop the subject in 11th Grade, and rather than take regular maths in the last few semesters, I switched to Maths Applications. This is a more practical sort of maths with a focus on day-to-day usage.

Obviously, you still have to teach Maths adequately. However, be sensitive to the needs of children such as myself. I spent years convinced that I was stupid and was terrified of of stuffing up the simplest of sums.

Aah. The perils of being left-handed! :D
I'm not talking about dylexics. I'm talking about the "stupid pills" handed out by the educational establishment. Learning disabilities are an entirely different subject. A lot of very capable people have had this problem and it has nothing to do with their intelligence.

It is shameful for the education establishment to pass along students who are incompetent.
 

Kelzie

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Missouri Mule said:
I'm not talking about dylexics. I'm talking about the "stupid pills" handed out by the educational establishment. Learning disabilities are an entirely different subject. A lot of very capable people have had this problem and it has nothing to do with their intelligence.

It is shameful for the education establishment to pass along students who are incompetent.
Do you have anything other than anecdotal stories or your own opinion that graduates are more incompetent now? Or is it just one of those "kids these days" feelings?
 

vergiss

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...so, in conclusion, I'm better educated than my American peers? Hah, owned. :2razz:
 

Missouri Mule

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Kelzie said:
Do you have anything other than anecdotal stories or your own opinion that graduates are more incompetent now? Or is it just one of those "kids these days" feelings?
I couldn't say for sure, but when I graduated from high school in 1961 we all could do basic math and all were literate. Can you claim the same today?

I don't think that kids today are any less gifted with brain cells today but that they haven't been provided with the necessary tools to make it in the modern world. I've read too many reports of executives of large corporations having to put their new employees in remedial education to believe it is just anecdotal.

And certainly we weren't taken up with the liberal propaganda programming that exists so much today. The statistics are overwhelming that kids today are programmed to be liberal and non-critical in their thinking. That's not an accidental happening.
 

Kelzie

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Missouri Mule said:
I couldn't say for sure, but when I graduated from high school in 1961 we all could do basic math and all were literate. Can you claim the same today?

I don't think that kids today are any less gifted with brain cells today but that they haven't been provided with the necessary tools to make it in the modern world. I've read too many reports of executives of large corporations having to put their new employees in remedial education to believe it is just anecdotal.

And certainly we weren't taken up with the liberal propaganda programming that exists so much today. The statistics are overwhelming that kids today are programmed to be liberal and non-critical in their thinking. That's not an accidental happening.
Yes I can. I had a graduating class of 400+, and 95% went on to higher education. I live in CO, which has the dubious distinction of 49th in school funding. If 380 of my classmates went on to college, I can say pretty confidently that they could all read and do basic math. Especially since 4 years of english and 3 of math was required for graduating.

What statistics? Show them. And my thought on "programming" people is that some people think for themselves, and some don't. You can't force someone to think for themselves. If they want to listen to the opinion of their teachers and take them for their own, so be it. Those people will always be followers, and whether it is a conservative one or a liberal one makes no difference to me. You don't hear my crying when they get out into the business world and are "brain washed" by the "evil conservatives" who are trying to warp young minds. That's life.
 

Missouri Mule

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Kelzie said:
Yes I can. I had a graduating class of 400+, and 95% went on to higher education. I live in CO, which has the dubious distinction of 49th in school funding. If 380 of my classmates went on to college, I can say pretty confidently that they could all read and do basic math. Especially since 4 years of english and 3 of math was required for graduating.

What statistics? Show them. And my thought on "programming" people is that some people think for themselves, and some don't. You can't force someone to think for themselves. If they want to listen to the opinion of their teachers and take them for their own, so be it. Those people will always be followers, and whether it is a conservative one or a liberal one makes no difference to me. You don't hear my crying when they get out into the business world and are "brain washed" by the "evil conservatives" who are trying to warp young minds. That's life.
Well whoop de do! Aren't you something? I guess all of these clowns I see on television must be representative of a different class of people. I suppose we ought to discard the observations of Bill Gates and other top executive officers who complain about the miserable state of our student's academic achievements. What would he know anyway? He's just an evil capitalist pig, isn't he?

If the educational system is so wonderful, why are there so many efforts to effect change? Evidently all of these groups must be misinformed. They didn't know of your school's outstanding results. It must be all conservative politics driving this and all of the homeschooling must be another conservative conspiracy too. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the NEA and the keeping incompetent teachers on the payroll, would it? Nah. No way.
 

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Missouri Mule said:
Well whoop de do! Aren't you something? I guess all of these clowns I see on television must be representative of a different class of people. I suppose we ought to discard the observations of Bill Gates and other top executive officers who complain about the miserable state of our student's academic achievements. What would he know anyway? He's just an evil capitalist pig, isn't he?.
What in the world are you ranting about? Clowns, Bill Gates? Does this actually make sense when you are thinking it, causing it doesn't when you type it.

Missouri Mule said:
If the educational system is so wonderful, why are there so many efforts to effect change? Evidently all of these groups must be misinformed. They didn't know of your school's outstanding results. It must be all conservative politics driving this and all of the homeschooling must be another conservative conspiracy too. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the NEA and the keeping incompetent teachers on the payroll, would it? Nah. No way.
The world changes, our society changes, therefore, our education needs to change. Unless you believe we should be teaching the same things we were teaching in the 1800's? And my school's a pretty typical Colorado school. A little better than most because we have the IB Program, but not by much.

And maybe if we paid our teachers a little more, we would attract better ones. Just a suggestion.
 

Missouri Mule

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Kelzie said:
What in the world are you ranting about? Clowns, Bill Gates? Does this actually make sense when you are thinking it, causing it doesn't when you type it.

The world changes, our society changes, therefore, our education needs to change. Unless you believe we should be teaching the same things we were teaching in the 1800's? And my school's a pretty typical Colorado school. A little better than most because we have the IB Program, but not by much.

And maybe if we paid our teachers a little more, we would attract better ones. Just a suggestion.
I'm talking about the clowns I see on television when they are interviewed and they know nothing from nothing and several of them are themselves teachers. It's pathetic.

Don't you read the newspapers? Bill Gates was recently complaining about the miserable state of U.S. education.

Your throwing the gratutious comment about teacher's pay in there doesn't surprise me at all. That's the liberal mantra always. They work too much for too little pay, blah, blah, blah. Nobody held a gun to their head to get in that profession. From what I've seen, they aren't worth 1/2 of what they get paid. The whole educational system in the U.S. ought to be junked and restarted from ground zero. Get back to the basics and stop with the sports programs; the wasted time spent on crap subjects and do what is required to prepare students for the world of tomorrow.
 

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Missouri Mule said:
I'm talking about the clowns I see on television when they are interviewed and they know nothing from nothing and several of them are themselves teachers. It's pathetic.

Don't you read the newspapers? Bill Gates was recently complaining about the miserable state of U.S. education.

Your throwing the gratutious comment about teacher's pay in there doesn't surprise me at all. That's the liberal mantra always. They work too much for too little pay, blah, blah, blah. Nobody held a gun to their head to get in that profession. From what I've seen, they aren't worth 1/2 of what they get paid. The whole educational system in the U.S. ought to be junked and restarted from ground zero. Get back to the basics and stop with the sports programs; the wasted time spent on crap subjects and do what is required to prepare students for the world of tomorrow.
Interviews on TV aren't fact. They are anecdotal STILL. Finds some facts please. Here's one for you. In the US, the illiteracy rate is less than 1%. How does this work if sooo many high school graduates can't read?

I look to Bill Gates to make my computer. Not to reform the education system.

And your solution to poor teacher is what? To pay them less so they'll work harder? Brilliant! If you pay higher wages, you attract better people who maybe wanted to teach, but decided they couldn't afford to. Competition would drive the less competent teachers out. See how that works?

Agreed with the sports though.
 

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i think the US education system is great in fostering creativity and problem solving skills, but the problem, especially in math, comes when the system starts to accomodate for those who don't have the ability to grasp the concepts quickly like other students. The elementary to late middle school math curriculum is pretty remedial in the US. Especially when you compare it to the curriculum in other countries. Almost all students who do win math competitions in the US, will tell you that their parents would teach them math at home as a child. Its not that all these kids are geniuses. Most of the parents would realize that the curriculum in their schools are useless, and would teach kids the concepts at home. I could go into describing the specific problems with the math curriculum, but theres just too many. Instead of teaching kids how to simply multiply 28*7 in their heads, the kids are forced to use blocks, counting charts, toothpicks or any f-ed up **** to solve the problems. Its retarded. The same time spent on these things could be spent teaching much more valuable topics. Its no wonder that US kids come behind other countries in math and science skills.
 

Mikkel

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Missouri Mule said:
You got it. Gold star for you! Absurd only if you believe our educational establishment is doing a good job. Only a liberal could possibly believe that.

Actually, I'd say, as a liberal, our schools aren't doing well at all. It isn't because we're teaching math poorly but because we have a horrible student to teacher ratio, especially in inner city schools and the schools that most need funding don't get it.

So how about blaming the stupidity of Americans on underfunded public schools, while 'compassionate' conservatives only care about standardize testing their brains out.
 

Missouri Mule

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Kelzie said:
Interviews on TV aren't fact. They are anecdotal STILL. Finds some facts please. Here's one for you. In the US, the illiteracy rate is less than 1%. How does this work if sooo many high school graduates can't read?

I look to Bill Gates to make my computer. Not to reform the education system.

And your solution to poor teacher is what? To pay them less so they'll work harder?
Brilliant! If you pay higher wages, you attract better people who maybe wanted to teach, but decided they couldn't afford to. Competition would drive the less competent teachers out. See how that works?

Agreed with the sports though.
Actually, I'm only in favor of junking the present public school system. Let it be market based and the teachers can make as much money as the market will bear. I just think that the quality of too many teachers today is abysmal. And your 1% functional illiteracy rate is not accurate -- no way.

I pay a whole lot of attention to what Bill Gates has to say. You should as well.
 

shuamort

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Missouri Mule said:
Actually, I'm only in favor of junking the present public school system. Let it be market based and the teachers can make as much money as the market will bear. I just think that the quality of too many teachers today is abysmal. And your 1% functional illiteracy rate is not accurate -- no way.

I pay a whole lot of attention to what Bill Gates has to say. You should as well.
The market will be in tax dollars. How does that even make sense?
 

Mikkel

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Yes, Privatizing education would REALLY ensure that the quality of education would increase in our country.:roll:

All that happens then is you get a bunch of poor kids not going to school at all, leaving at least the bottom 10% of our country education-less. So much for the land of opportunity...
 
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