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The Myth of Social Mobility in the US

Whatever you say.

Is that how you would like America to be?

Never said that

I will say the system that China has, is working well for a significant % of the population. Taking hundreds of millions out of poverty (starting after Mao died) and for at least those living on the east coast a living standard similar to Malaysia, when 40 years ago they would have been poorer than India
 
Humpty%2BDumpty.jpg

I suppose you can't read either?

Stop using your regressive tactics. They don't work.
 
Never said that

I will say the system that China has, is working well for a significant % of the population. Taking hundreds of millions out of poverty (starting after Mao died) and for at least those living on the east coast a living standard similar to Malaysia, when 40 years ago they would have been poorer than India

Good for them. Those people still live under a Communist regime with total power over them.

That same regime is seeking to expand that power over larger areas including space, as we speak. My guess is that those on the Left don't have a problem with any of that.
 
That would probably be better than trying to slap deodorant on Socialism/Communism to make it not smell.

sooooooshulism! everybody drink!

:roll:

please. the rest of the free world aren't a bunch of commies.
 
There are array of Leftist ideological POV. China espouses many of them. Since they like to think of themselves as COMMUNISTS, we'll go with those described in the article I posted.
I'm gong to pretend you're not attacking my religion in your off-topic conclusion.

So you can't give us definitions, this is why some consider your position to be one of "ignorance". You have no basis in reason or fact, and it's discarded like most of what you type.

Also, every post you make includes a discussion about Scalia, Christ, etc. If you don't want to that as part of your posts, remove it like a big boy. Post it, and it's fair game. You include that in every post by choice.
 
sooooooshulism! everybody drink!

:roll:

please. the rest of the free world aren't a bunch of commies.

But far too many lean that direction in this country. How soon we forget the enemies of freedom.
 
So you can't give us definitions, this is why some consider your position to be one of "ignorance". You have no basis in reason or fact, and it's discarded like most of what you type.

Also, every post you make includes a discussion about Scalia, Christ, etc. If you don't want to that as part of your posts, remove it like a big boy. Post it, and it's fair game. You include that in every post by choice.

You are exactly the people Scalia wrote that for.

As I'm sure you know from living in Texas, we say. I got your "big boy" hangin.
 
We Americans pride ourselves on the supposed social mobility that exists in the US. Anyone who is willing to work hard can "lift themselves up the bootstraps" and make something of themselves, if they are smart enough and apply themselves. Right?

Well, I was surprised to learn that the US is actually at the bottom of the pack in terms of measures of social mobility among all OECD nations. We may be ahead of Slovenia, but that's about it. If you are born poor in the US, you are far less likely to get a decent education or any opportunities to advance. Forget that, they are not even going to give you lunch in your elementary school.

Who's #1? Denmark, that supposedly socialist hellhole.


Right.

Not going through all these pages to see if this was addressed yet, but through experience being poor while young:

entitled to free breakfast and lunch in elementary and middle-high school
eligible for financial aid for college, two years paid in full including books. Could have gone for four, but got a full time job by then. Finished the four part time at night. So those comments are just bull****.

Called hard work.
 
But far too many lean that direction in this country. How soon we forget the enemies of freedom.

Indeed. They're usually politicians shouting about freedom.
 
Even their economic system is riddles with evil practices. Stealing technology, using inferior and/or dangerous components and materials, reverse engineering, padding their books, manipulating their currency and cruel labor laws, to name a few.

They haven't and won't drift too far away from their old school totalitarianism.

Maybe so. Maybe not. But I am glad you agree that communism does not just mean "yucky stuff I don't like". Broccoli is not communist. Communism is just an economic system, and China doesn't really have it today.

Now can they be capitalist and evil? Sure. That can happen too, you know. I would even daresay you can have capitalists right here in America who are evil and who do bad things! I know that may come as a shock to you, because some Americans seem to conflate wealth with moral virtue and godliness.

But remember the Wall Street version of the golden rule: Do unto others BEFORE they do unto you!
 
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I suppose you can't read either?

Stop using your regressive tactics. They don't work.

The word you were looking for is satire.

You have a Procrustean fixation, it doesn't need rebuttal.

Let's see if you can learn.

A fully Communist government has no private property. Typically, the currency was non-convertible, so any foreign trade was by barter. I'd still like to know what the DeBeers sent to Russia as part of Russia joining their diamond cartel.

These days, Russian and China have private property, and the currency is convertible.

There is a continuum between capitalism, and communism. There are no pure capitalist countries, and no pure communist countries. What you see, in the real world, is governments somewhere in the middle. It has to be that way.

There are, however, wide variations, in where they sit on the spectrum. Some European countries have a lot of government involvement. Social programs, generous education funding, etc.

Right wing types used to say Europe was on the edge of failure. But if you look at the most successful countries, like Denmark, they are doing better than we are, in a lot of ways.

Who knew life could get complicated?
 
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Maybe so. Maybe not. But I am glad you agree that communism does not just mean "yucky stuff I don't like". Broccoli is not communist. Communism is just an economic system, and China doesn't really have it today.

Now can they be capitalist and evil? Sure. That can happen too, you know. I would even daresay you can have capitalists right here in America who are evil and who do bad things! I know that may come as a shock to you, because some Americans seem to conflate wealth with moral virtue and godliness.

But remember the Wall Street version of the golden rule: Do unto others BEFORE they do unto you!

I like the Market-Leninism better. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Would Wall Street be bad if it weren't closely tied in with the global economy? For as long as any of us can remember it has been.
 
The word you were looking for is satire.

You have a Procrustean fixation, it doesn't need rebuttal.

Let's see if you can learn.

A fully Communist government has no private property. Typically, the currency was non-convertible, so any foreign trade was by barter. I'd still like to know what the DeBeers sent to Russia as part of Russia joining their diamond cartel.

These days, Russian and China have private property, and the currency is convertible.

There is a continuum between capitalism, and communism. There are no pure capitalist countries, and no pure communist countries. What you see, in the real world, is governments somewhere in the middle. It has to be that way.

There are, however, wide variations, in where they sit on the spectrum. Some European countries have a lot of government involvement. Social programs, generous education funding, etc.

Right wing types used to say Europe was on the edge of failure. But if you look at the most successful countries, like Denmark, they are doing better than we are, in a lot of ways.

Who knew life could get complicated?

It is complicated. When the Soviet Union failed Communism took a nose dive. China and a few other countries practiced a watered down version.

There are many types of Communism practices in the world with much disagreement on which one is best.

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_communism.html

What I see happening here in the US are pieces of Communism making it's way to the mainstream.

The Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx
 
We could look into the successful social programs that the rest of the first world has embraced for decades, but that might seriously interfere with our "let's let five old white guys control all of the money and hope that they give some back" system.

If you were to do that, you would find most of the ideas originated in the U.S.

One problem I have noticed with U.S. politics is that when a new party gets elected they like to spend their time undoing whatever the last elected party put in place.

Most other countries do not do that. Instead they take a look at where things are and come up with policies to improve on programs that are not working well. Or they devise new improved programs or strategies to address an issue.

It seems to me that in the U.S., no debate is ever over. Every policy put in place by one party is either a temporary victory, or a temporary setback that can be undone in the future, depending on whether your party is in power or not.
 
I like the Market-Leninism better. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Would Wall Street be bad if it weren't closely tied in with the global economy? For as long as any of us can remember it has been.

Why is being tied to the global economy evil? Free trade is part of a free market. Without global markets, the US economy today would be about 25% its current size. So now you don't like free markets?
 
It is complicated. When the Soviet Union failed Communism took a nose dive. China and a few other countries practiced a watered down version.

There are many types of Communism practices in the world with much disagreement on which one is best.


What I see happening here in the US are pieces of Communism making it's way to the mainstream.

You can have your own ideas, but you don't get to change the language.

There has never been a Communist government. Stalin was a dictator, that's not Communist at all.

The typical lie from the Right is to call governments Socialist. The lie there is that there are two definitions, one old and one new. They talk about the new style, but pretend it's actually the old. It's a really stupid lie, but some people are easily distracted.

You take that a step further, deeper into lala land.
 
In my experience all "survival of the fittest" advocates are the first to call somebody for help when the **** hits the fan.
Yeah and you can prove that I'm sure. I've stated it before and will again, I've never been on public assistance. Be responsible for yourself, why should another have to pay for you.

Any 'couple' both working 18 hours per day, 7 days per week, won't remain a *couple* for long!

When do they have time to *be* a couple? What kind of life is that for anyone, let alone a citizen of a (so-called) first world nation?

And people question why there are so many single parents... :roll:
18 hours? I thought 8+8 was 16 and I stated 5 days a week, if they wanted to pick up another shift that would add to their combined income. Comprehension, is key.
 
Re: lots of people losing suddenly losing jobs over a short period of time in the last recession:



So you are saying people lost jobs in the last recession because they were overpaid? So you don't think that free markets create cyclical slow-downs sometimes?

We left the medical care system to voluntary charity. Before the ACA, about 40,000 Americans a year were dying every single year due to lack of access to healthcare. Where were the charities then?

The problem is, that we ended up paying for those sick uninsured anyway: many many times what we would have. Think about $10/month blood pressure medicines vs. the cost of some untreated guy ending up in the ER at 3 am because of untreated blood pressure and needing a heart transplant.

And when we left it up to charity, the US ranked almost dead last among developed nations by just about every public health metric. Forget a sense of humanity, because it's clear you are a social Darwinist and such concepts mean nothing to you. So let's talk economics. A sicker society is an economically less productive one.

A free market like the fake free market we have always has peaks and valleys, and the ones that produce the least while earning the most get cut, at least that's how it should work.

40K people died because they had no access to healthcare? I've never seen anyone get turned away, it's called charity care, if your on welfare you get free healthcare. If you earn under a certain amount you get a subsidy.
 
In my experience all "survival of the fittest" advocates are the first to call somebody for help when the **** hits the fan.

Any 'couple' both working 18 hours per day, 7 days per week, won't remain a *couple* for long!

When do they have time to *be* a couple? What kind of life is that for anyone, let alone a citizen of a (so-called) first world nation?

And people question why there are so many single parents... :roll:

You couldn't possibly be more wrong. This country isnt a "survival of the fittest". That is insanely dumb talk. We have social safety nets all over the place. We have the Americans with Disabilities Act. We have all sorts of in place social infrastructure that makes us nothing like what you describe. We aren't lions on the Serengeti. We are in a society.

Yes, we have welfare programs for those that can't make it on their own, you are right, but if want to be a chooser you can't be a beggar.
 
Yes, we have welfare programs for those that can't make it on their own, you are right, but if want to be a chooser you can't be a beggar.

This is your actual answer for the disabled in America?
 
This is your actual answer for the disabled in America?

Pretty much.

You see, true charity comes from the heart. We adopted a little girl, we fostered another, we clear the old ladies sidewalk across the street when it snows, if a box is left on her doorstep we bring it to her side entrance where she can more easily access it. We take her grocery shopping now and then or if going to the store call and ask if she needs a few items. If I know my neighbors work late I pull their garbage cans out for them etc. These are things you do from the heart, that is charity. Putting a gun to ones head and say, "Donate or we will put you in prison" is not charity, it is forced labor.
 
Pretty much.

You see, true charity comes from the heart. We adopted a little girl, we fostered another, we clear the old ladies sidewalk across the street when it snows, if a box is left on her doorstep we bring it to her side entrance where she can more easily access it. We take her grocery shopping now and then or if going to the store call and ask if she needs a few items. If I know my neighbors work late I pull their garbage cans out for them etc. These are things you do from the heart, that is charity. Putting a gun to ones head and say, "Donate or we will put you in prison" is not charity, it is forced labor.

The good news is that you are not a policy maker.
 
If you were to do that, you would find most of the ideas originated in the U.S.

One problem I have noticed with U.S. politics is that when a new party gets elected they like to spend their time undoing whatever the last elected party put in place.

Most other countries do not do that. Instead they take a look at where things are and come up with policies to improve on programs that are not working well. Or they devise new improved programs or strategies to address an issue.

It seems to me that in the U.S., no debate is ever over. Every policy put in place by one party is either a temporary victory, or a temporary setback that can be undone in the future, depending on whether your party is in power or not.

we're being divided politically on purpose, IMO. this is because the real division is more economic than political. the strategy of keeping the regular folks fighting each other and the poor has been quite a boon to the upper class. think about it. whatever they do or undo, American nobility makes out like bandits, even from war. that's a dangerous system.
 
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