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The Myth of Social Mobility in the US

WCH said:
You make it sound so glamorous. Did you know that most day you can't see the sky?
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In certain areas that has happened. China is however pushing hard to improve the environment. It does show the need for the EPA does it not
 
ataraxia said:
It's OK to sometimes look around and see what others are doing right to see if you can learn from them.

If someone somewhere is doing things which are useful and leading to good outcomes, only an ideological zealot and fanatic would turn a blind eye to them and say they don't care.
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Exactly. Any fool of average intelligence learns from their own mistakes and gains. A person of superior intellect also learns from others' mistakes and gains.
 
WCH said:
We spilled blood for those people in two WWs and spilled blood to get away from "how they run things"
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You are making no sense. You actually think these Western European countries run much similar after the World Wars like they did before the World Wars?

I guess you never heard of The Marshall Plan.
 
WCH said:
So you don't think Communism is leftist?
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Oh it most certainly is, but both China and Russia haven't been true classical communist for a very long time.
China's economy isn't communist at all. Good Lord, do you actually think a working stiff is "alotted" a car, or a place to live?
They pay rent, or buy the home, from a realtor, and the realtor pockets the profits! Cars are sold at dealerships, for money, and the dealer profits from it.

China's communism controls the media, public expression, foreign policy, industrial goals and targets, city planning and the military.
But day to day life, where one goes to work, collects pay, buys and sells goods and services, is most definitely capitalist.
In a true communist society, excess wealth and property ownership isn't allowed.

Communism is an extreme Left form of governance which dictates not only equal opportunity but decrees equal outcomes as well.
I do not see a lot of "equal outcomes" in this Chinese urban street scene.

Jinan-China-Ken-Marshall-Flickr-EMBARQ-1140x518_0.jpg


Sorry but it's a gross mistake the conflate the China of today with the China of Mao's time.
China is not "leftist" in the sense that you think it is.

Berkeley California is a hundred times more "leftist" than China.
And even Berkeley isn't achieving any actual leftist goals of equality either, go price rents or real estate up there!
 
PeteEU said:
China ain't commuist.

Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
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Y'all keep saying that.

China, officially the People's Republic of China (PRC), is a one-party socialist state in East Asia and, with a population of around 1.404 billion, the world's most populous country. Covering 9,600,000 square kilometers (3,700,000 sq mi), China has the most borders of any country in the world. The Communist Party of China exercises jurisdiction over 22 provinces, five autonomous regions, four direct-controlled municipalities (Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, and Chongqing), and the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Same as London in the 1870's, what's your point?
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My Wife's cousin lived there [Shanghai] for 2.5 years and his wife became pregnant while there. The child was born with severe mental and physical issues.

Let's just say I'm not impressed with China or anything they represent.
 
WCH said:
Y'all keep saying that.

China, officially the People's Republic of China (PRC), is a one-party socialist state in East Asia and, with a population of around 1.404 billion, the world's most populous country. Covering 9,600,000 square kilometers (3,700,000 sq mi), China has the most borders of any country in the world. The Communist Party of China exercises jurisdiction over 22 provinces, five autonomous regions, four direct-controlled municipalities (Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, and Chongqing), and the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau.
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Define communism?

China, is communist in name only

Example, just one of thousands

Longer Pump - about us-Longer Precision Pump Co., Ltd.


Longer Precision Pump Co., Ltd, was founded in 1997, LongerPump is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Halma Group, and is affiliated to Medical Sector which specializes in R&D, production and the sale of precise fluid transfer and handling devices.
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The founder is Chinese, built the company up, sold it to Halma about 5 years ago. Took the money and immigrated to Australia. Under an actual communist country, he could never have owned the company, never have sold it and in the process make 10 of millions of dollars
 
WCH said:
You make it sound so glamorous. Did you know that most day you can't see the sky?
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I realize that you're convinced that anyone who isn't a hardcore authoritarian conservative like yourself must have copies of Mao's Little Red Book and posters of Marx and Lenin in their homes, and that we secretly dream of marching in Red Square, and that our goal is to infiltrate and implant Soviet style confiscatory communism in America before we die.

Sigh, will you ever listen when people tell you that you're subscribing to theories expounded by pundits who are suffering from hallucinations?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Define communism?

China, is communist in name only

Example, just one of thousands

Longer Pump - about us-Longer Precision Pump Co., Ltd.




The founder is Chinese, built the company up, sold it to Halma about 5 years ago. Took the money and immigrated to Australia. Under an actual communist country, he could never have owned the company, never have sold it and in the process make 10 of millions of dollars
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You keep being an apologist for China. I've got many stories about how they play the game.

I hope they do give up Communism and become a godly country. It would make the world a better place.

BTW, I didn't see China on the upward mobility list.
 
lefty louie said:
Many of these people were overpaid for the work they did. Just look at government workers as a perfect example of overpriced labor, they produce nothing and expect everything. I can't help it if people are so dumb that they could not see the bubble coming and get out while they could. As far as health care goes, there is always a way around the expense, there are doctors that will take cash payments, there are other countries that you can get treatment cheaper and still be safe. I'm not going to give up all me tricks but there are ways around the BS the govt. throws at you.

This country is survival of the fittest, you want everyone to be taken care of, well it doesn't always work that way, you don't always get a trophy, coming in lasts means you came in last.

If your dumb you get the pickings on the bottom of the barrel, not the cream that rises to the top. Sorry but it sucks to be last. I'm the product of a Janitor father and a mom that stocked shelves at a supermarket. The one thing they taught me was, work hard until you get smart, then work smart. I listened and learned, working smart is much better and I don't plan on sharing my share at the point of a gun. I much prefer true charity, that is giving to those less fortunate at my desire.
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You couldn't possibly be more wrong. This country isnt a "survival of the fittest". That is insanely dumb talk. We have social safety nets all over the place. We have the Americans with Disabilities Act. We have all sorts of in place social infrastructure that makes us nothing like what you describe. We aren't lions on the Serengeti. We are in a society.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I realize that you're convinced that anyone who isn't a hardcore authoritarian conservative like yourself must have copies of Mao's Little Red Book and posters of Marx and Lenin in their homes, and that we secretly dream of marching in Red Square, and that our goal is to infiltrate and implant Soviet style confiscatory communism in America before we die.

Sigh, will you ever listen when people tell you that you're subscribing to theories expounded by pundits who are suffering from hallucinations?
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You're old enough to have lived through some of this. This is my fear for America.

http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=FinalWarning
 
WCH said:
You keep being an apologist for China. I've got many stories about how they play the game.

I hope they do give up Communism and become a godly country.
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Economic systems have nothing to do with religion.

China is not really a communist country anymore, even if they still want to call themselves that. It's like N. Korea still calling itself "The Democratic People's Republic of Korea" or Iran calling itself "The Islamic Republic of Iran". Does anyone really think these countries have anything to do with democracy or being a republic?

Interesting story of how China slowly gave up on communism:

Economic reforms introducing market principles began in 1978 and were carried out in two stages. The first stage, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, involved the decollectivization of agriculture, the opening up of the country to foreign investment, and permission for entrepreneurs to start businesses. However, most industry remained state-owned. The second stage of reform, in the late 1980s and 1990s, involved the privatization and contracting out of much state-owned industry and the lifting of price controls, protectionist policies, and regulations, although state monopolies in sectors such as banking and petroleum remained. The private sector grew remarkably, accounting for as much as 70 percent of China's gross domestic product by 2005.[5] From 1978 until 2013, unprecedented growth occurred, with the economy increasing by 9.5% a year. The conservative Hu-Wen Administration more heavily regulated and controlled the economy after 2005, reversing some reforms.[6]

The success of China's economic policies and the manner of their implementation has resulted in immense changes in Chinese society. Large-scale government planning programs alongside market characteristics have greatly decreased poverty, while incomes and income inequality have increased, leading to a backlash led by the New Left. In the academic scene, scholars have debated the reason for the success of the Chinese "dual-track" economy, and have compared them to attempts to reform socialism in the Eastern Bloc and the Soviet Union; as well as the growth of other developing economies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform
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WCH said:
My Wife's cousin lived there [Shanghai] for 2.5 years and his wife became pregnant while there. The child was born with severe mental and physical issues.

Let's just say I'm not impressed with China or anything they represent.
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Right, and you're convinced that liberals dream of a future where America resembles present day China.
I know, you've got a serious perceptual problem...it's called McCarthyist paranoia and it dwindled out decades ago, or so we thought.
I know you won't believe this, but as a liberal, I find modern day China a bit frightening and quite dismal and dystopian.

Although they've managed to do some remarkable things, most of it has been at the expense of the little people, the environment and free expression. That doesn't matter much to them, they are a five thousand year old civilization and the West isn't going to change their outlook one iota. China used communism to achieve its ends, now it's using capitalism to do so.
It will use whatever it wishes to use, but for the benefit of the ruling elite, always for the benefit of the ruling elite.
Not much has changed in that respect in five thousand years.

Although I find China's social and political constructs horrifying, I am equally horrified by the current march in this country toward authoritarian theocracy. In the postwar era we had some glaring social ills, but our economy was the envy of the world.
Then we attempted to correct some of the social ills, but meanwhile we began to cede control of the economy to vulture elites.

As a liberal, I do not expect the government to cure all social ills, I only wish for it to be there to provide available resources so that PEOPLE can correct those ills by their own efforts.
People are plenty motivated all by themselves, if they believe that such goals are attainable.
I also do not expect government to make everyone equally wealthy either.
I only wish for it to be there to provide safe haven for those who are in trouble and who demonstrate the willingness to work hard to get OUT of trouble. We can't save all the chronic dharma bums, or even regular chronic bums, nor should we.
But a working family that has fallen on hard times should be able to rescue themselves with a bit of help if it's available.
That's called having a heart, and communities are supposed to have heart and soul.

For everything else, capitalism serves just fine, provided it is centered around working families and not a despotic elite.
And I believe that conservatives are very valuable in helping to establish the foundation for principles, values, and respect for historical tradition.
Sound ethics are a conservative hallmark, or at least they used to be.

The one thing that ambitious liberal dreamers cannot seem to do for themselves is pull themselves up short at the foot of ethics once they get on a roll. That's why no matter how much William F. Buckley annoyed liberals of his era, they still had to respect him.
Buckley was never in the habit of praising liberals but he was more than willing to respect certain liberal aspirations if he believed them to be ethically sound...even if he didn't agree with them.
 
WCH said:
But it's not OK for us to have one run our country. ;)

The government of China, the so'called People's Party is most certainly Communist.
How many of those billionaires are in the Party?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/business/china-parliament-billionaires.html
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Actually the vast majority of them are not in the communist party. They are self-made.
www.cnbc.com/2018/02/20/self-made-billionaires-chinas-10-richest-billionaires.html

You know, you seem really out of the loop of current events. Start subscribing to a magazine like the Economist or something so you can get up to speed on what is happening around the world. . You sound like you are stepping out of a time warp from the 1950s or something.
 
WCH said:
You keep being an apologist for China. I've got many stories about how they play the game.

I hope they do give up Communism and become a godly country. It would make the world a better place.

BTW, I didn't see China on the upward mobility list.
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I see how you avoided defining communism.


Normally developing countries would not be included in such a list
 
WCH said:
You're old enough to have lived through some of this. This is my fear for America.

http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=FinalWarning
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OMG you actually subscribe to that crap?
What else?

Do you believe that The Rothschild Family controls the world, too?
If you knew who you were talking to, you'd faint dead away.
I, and my entire family today, (well, the PATERNAL side anyway) are living proof that The Rothschild Family's fortunes were scattered to the four winds by the end of WW2, and that they had already begun to lose their grip on financial power of that magnitude by the end of the 19th century.

hugohaas1925a.webp

HugoHaasErnaHaas1949.webp

HINT: There is no Illuminati anymore. The large multinational corporations play that role now.
You really need to burn your Birch Society library.
And your belief in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion mark you as a tool.

Here's a book written by a dear friend. She grew up in one of the founding families of the JBS.
If you've ever heard of Stilwell Conner, this is his daughter:

https://www.amazon.com/Wrapped-Flag-Learned-Growing-Americas/dp/0807033316

You need help.
 
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