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The Mueller Investigation

Good4Nothin

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I don't know all the details about this, first of all, because it is so boring, but I have general ideas about it. Democrats are desperate to find something criminal somehow related to the Trump campaign.

It doesn't look as if they will find anything. They arrested Roger Stone because somehow he supposedly had something to do with the wikileaks Clinton emails. And he made some kind of wrong statement, maybe because he didn't have a photographic memory for every detail.

Was the Trump campaign hoping to dig up negative information about Clinton? Probably, that is what political campaigns do.

Alan Dershowitz thinks Mueller won't find anything. He also thinks civil liberties are being threatened, regarding the Infowars ban, for example. He thinks this is all political. And the ACLU is not exactly a right-wing Christian organization.

Dershowitz thinks crimes committed by Trump will be found, but only because anyone who owns big businesses has inadvertently committed crimes.

Obama is proud of the fact that he was never investigated -- well, for one thing, the Democrats obviously weren't out to get him. And he never owned a business. So big deal.

I am not a Trump supporter. But I am seeing the president being mobbed and persecuted.
 

MovingPictures

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I don't know all the details about this, first of all, because it is so boring, but I have general ideas about it. Democrats are desperate to find something criminal somehow related to the Trump campaign.

It doesn't look as if they will find anything. They arrested Roger Stone because somehow he supposedly had something to do with the wikileaks Clinton emails. And he made some kind of wrong statement, maybe because he didn't have a photographic memory for every detail.

Was the Trump campaign hoping to dig up negative information about Clinton? Probably, that is what political campaigns do.

Alan Dershowitz thinks Mueller won't find anything. He also thinks civil liberties are being threatened, regarding the Infowars ban, for example. He thinks this is all political. And the ACLU is not exactly a right-wing Christian organization.

Dershowitz thinks crimes committed by Trump will be found, but only because anyone who owns big businesses has inadvertently committed crimes.

Obama is proud of the fact that he was never investigated -- well, for one thing, the Democrats obviously weren't out to get him. And he never owned a business. So big deal.

I am not a Trump supporter. But I am seeing the president being mobbed and persecuted.
Suuuuuuure, you're not. :lol:
 

Skeptic Bob

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I definitely think Trump has intentionally broken laws and some of those will likely come to light through this investigation. I'm just not convinced it is going to be the bombshell some are expecting.
 

Good4Nothin

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I definitely think Trump has intentionally broken laws and some of those will likely come to light through this investigation. I'm just not convinced it is going to be the bombshell some are expecting.

What makes you think he has intentionally broken laws? Do you have evidence, or is it just a feeling you get because you hate Trump?
 

Skeptic Bob

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What makes you think he has intentionally broken laws? Do you have evidence, or is it just a feeling you get because you hate Trump?

Because I think most billionaire real-estate moguls intentionally break laws.
 

Born Free

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I definitely think Trump has intentionally broken laws and some of those will likely come to light through this investigation. I'm just not convinced it is going to be the bombshell some are expecting.

You THINK, you Think, I bet you thought those woman that tried to destroy Kav made you think he was guilty. However there was not a shred of evidence or corroboration to support a word they said. Now Kav is a SCJ

And now you think Trump intentionally broken laws. Do you have an ounce of fact to support your thinking?????

Just asking
 

Captain Adverse

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Because I think most billionaire real-estate moguls intentionally break laws.

That's what I think the people who pushed for this investigation were banking on.

That's what they got on Manafort.

That's what they got on Cohen.

All of the investigation's so-called related "crimes" so far are "process crimes," i.e. lying to investigators...typically about something innocent (Flynn, Papadopoulos) or something forgotten (Stone).

Oh, wait! There is that issue of "campaign finance" problems with paying off people seeking to profit on their story...but that is still not Russian "collusion."
 
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Mach

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I don't know all the details about this, first of all, because it is so boring, but I have general ideas about it. Democrats are desperate to find something criminal somehow related to the Trump campaign.
...
I am not a Trump supporter. But I am seeing the president being mobbed and persecuted.

Reads 100% phony to me.
 

Xelor

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I don't know all the details about this, first of all, because it is so boring, but I have general ideas about it. Democrats are desperate to find something criminal somehow related to the Trump campaign.

It doesn't look as if they will find anything. They arrested Roger Stone because somehow he supposedly had something to do with the wikileaks Clinton emails. And he made some kind of wrong statement, maybe because he didn't have a photographic memory for every detail.

Was the Trump campaign hoping to dig up negative information about Clinton? Probably, that is what political campaigns do.

Alan Dershowitz thinks Mueller won't find anything. He also thinks civil liberties are being threatened, regarding the Infowars ban, for example. He thinks this is all political. And the ACLU is not exactly a right-wing Christian organization.

Dershowitz thinks crimes committed by Trump will be found, but only because anyone who owns big businesses has inadvertently committed crimes.

Obama is proud of the fact that he was never investigated -- well, for one thing, the Democrats obviously weren't out to get him. And he never owned a business. So big deal.

I am not a Trump supporter. But I am seeing the president being mobbed and persecuted.

Red:
You and Mr. Dershowitz have a bizarre notion of what the word "anything" means. Mueller and his team have already found many things and obtained grand jury indictments of some 150+ acts, not one of which has been summarily dismissed or, by the DoJ, withdrawn, and his team has obtained convictions/guilty pleas of half a dozen or more people.

And what are most of the convictions for? Lying about things that had the defendants not lied about them, they'd have not be charged. Why the hell would anyone lie to the FBI, which is illegal, about something s/he did or said not illegal?
  • Some folks have remarked to the effect of "if s/he did 'such and such,' doing that isn't illegal." Well, fine, believing that so, why has s/he denied doing "such and such?"
    • I mean, really. Who with any sense at all evaluates a question/matter whereby telling the truth may be embarrassing and telling a lie will land them in prison, and, in turn, opts to go to prison?

      For my own part, I think going to prison and being a felon is embarrassing in its own right, for any reason, really, but especially for lying to investigators working to discover the truth of matters pertaining to the behavior of individuals who've been entrusted to conduct affairs of state on behalf of the people of United States.
 

<alt>doxygen

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I don't know all the details about this, first of all, because it is so boring, but I have general ideas about it. Democrats are desperate to find something criminal somehow related to the Trump campaign.

It doesn't look as if they will find anything. They arrested Roger Stone because somehow he supposedly had something to do with the wikileaks Clinton emails. And he made some kind of wrong statement, maybe because he didn't have a photographic memory for every detail.

Was the Trump campaign hoping to dig up negative information about Clinton? Probably, that is what political campaigns do.

Alan Dershowitz thinks Mueller won't find anything. He also thinks civil liberties are being threatened, regarding the Infowars ban, for example. He thinks this is all political. And the ACLU is not exactly a right-wing Christian organization.

Dershowitz thinks crimes committed by Trump will be found, but only because anyone who owns big businesses has inadvertently committed crimes.

Obama is proud of the fact that he was never investigated -- well, for one thing, the Democrats obviously weren't out to get him. And he never owned a business. So big deal.

I am not a Trump supporter. But I am seeing the president being mobbed and persecuted.

^^^convincingly unbiased opinion. :2razz::lamo

Trump's just a nice (fake) rich clown who went all in where his ego led him. Oopsie!
 

Skeptic Bob

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You THINK, you Think, I bet you thought those woman that tried to destroy Kav made you think he was guilty. However there was not a shred of evidence or corroboration to support a word they said. Now Kav is a SCJ

And now you think Trump intentionally broken laws. Do you have an ounce of fact to support your thinking?????

Just asking

I SAID I think. I’m just some dude on the internet. Why do people keep confusing me with a court of law?
 

Skeptic Bob

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That's what I think the people who pushed for this investigation were banking on.

That's what they got on Manafort.

That's what they got on Cohen.

All of the investigation's so-called related "crimes" so far are "process crimes," i.e. lying to investigators...typically about something innocent (Flynn, Papadopoulos) or something forgotten (Stone).

Oh, wait! There is that issue of "campaign finance" problems with paying off people seeking to profit on their story...but that is still not Russian "collusion."

Yeah, I think you are right. Just like with Clinton. In the end it wasn’t Whitewater that got him impeached, but something else learned during the investigation. I’m sure it won’t be the last time we see this tactic as it seems to work.
 

JasperL

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What makes you think he has intentionally broken laws? Do you have evidence, or is it just a feeling you get because you hate Trump?

He almost certainly broke a lot of laws running his casinos - they've been documented. Same with how his family handled estate and gift matters, and the foundation. And we know about those because they've been thoroughly examined, starting with the very heavily regulated casinos, the estate and gift tax returns leaked to the press, and the investigation of the foundation.

Just from what's been disclosed publicly, we know he ran those three things with a disregard for the laws, almost certainly breaking them in each case.

Why would anyone suspect the rest of his business is any cleaner than what's been examined, which is a pretty small slice of the big picture?
 

JasperL

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That's what I think the people who pushed for this investigation were banking on.

That's what they got on Manafort.

That's what they got on Cohen.

All of the investigation's so-called related "crimes" so far are "process crimes," i.e. lying to investigators...typically about something innocent (Flynn, Papadopoulos) or something forgotten (Stone).

Oh, wait! There is that issue of "campaign finance" problems with paying off people seeking to profit on their story...but that is still not Russian "collusion."

The job of people allegedly 'banking' on finding unrelated crimes had their job made a whole lot easier by seemingly everyone surrounding Trump having a contempt for telling the truth, lying to investigators, lying to the public, lying to Congress. You can call them "process" crimes all day long, but they are crimes for a good reason, and when an organization (the campaign and transition) decides that it's not important to tell the truth under oath, and about stuff all around the edges of the core issue - Russia "collusion" - and when there are many BIG money links between members of the campaign (including the Trump family) and Russia, then the job of establishing a plausible case for an investigation was made for them.

The Russia tower projects, plural, are a perfect example of all this. Trump said dozens, maybe hundreds of times, he had no business deals in Russia - Russia..what? Russians who? Then we find out he had TWO active deals being pursued during the campaign, one of them ongoing with very serious people with very serious money and connections right into the Kremlin (as any big project like that would have) until AT LEAST election night. That one was supposedly worth up to $300 million to the Trump Org. It's really unthinkable that kind of thing would NOT be investigated, especially when seemingly everyone around Trump was knee deep in Russians and ALL OF THEM LYING ABOUT IT.

That's the context, and a small part of the context, for these so-called "process" crimes.

You mention Flynn. We have an incoming NSA for goodness sake lying about his lobbying work for foreign governments. He knew better, and it's really unthinkable to have a person in the position of NSA with connections of money and peddling influence that he's hiding from government officials and the public, and Trump supporters are dismissing that as a "process" crime. I mean, he'd only have access to the most guarded secrets in the U.S. government. Is it too much to expect for him to disclose to the government AND THE PUBLIC his foreign connections while in the private sector?
 
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marke

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I definitely think Trump has intentionally broken laws and some of those will likely come to light through this investigation. I'm just not convinced it is going to be the bombshell some are expecting.

That's right. Even Mueller himself is trying to tamp down the misguided enthusiasm of his Trump-hating deluded supporters. Mueller's best face-saving tactic will be to have his report sealed so nobody ever finds out how little he ever found and how far removed from Trump was what he did find.
 

Skeptic Bob

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That's right. Even Mueller himself is trying to tamp down the misguided enthusiasm of his Trump-hating deluded supporters. Mueller's best face-saving tactic will be to have his report sealed so nobody ever finds out how little he ever found and how far removed from Trump was what he did find.

I don’t see why Mueller needs to save face, though. He wasn’t appointed to take Trump down, he was appointed to investigate the matter. If he fulfilled the mandate he was given then he should be proud of his work.
 

Media_Truth

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That's what I think the people who pushed for this investigation were banking on.

That's what they got on Manafort.

That's what they got on Cohen.

All of the investigation's so-called related "crimes" so far are "process crimes," i.e. lying to investigators...typically about something innocent (Flynn, Papadopoulos) or something forgotten (Stone).

Oh, wait! There is that issue of "campaign finance" problems with paying off people seeking to profit on their story...but that is still not Russian "collusion."

Are you forgetting about this meeting? I guess that was just a get together for a cup of tea?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/politics/donald-trump-jr-meeting/index.html

So far acknowledged in attendance: Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, Akhmetshin and publicist Rob Goldstone, who helped set up the meeting. A source familiar with the circumstances told CNN there were at least two other people in the room as well, a translator and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting. The source did not provide the names.
 

marke

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I don’t see why Mueller needs to save face, though. He wasn’t appointed to take Trump down, he was appointed to investigate the matter. If he fulfilled the mandate he was given then he should be proud of his work.

Herr Muller was appointed to investigate the democrat rumor that Trump had colluded with the Russians. He likely found out in the first two months that such a rumor was untrue. What has he been doing ever since? God knows what but he has a lot to hide from now that he has come to the end with no evidence of collusion.
 

Logician Man

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Herr Muller was appointed to investigate the democrat rumor that Trump had colluded with the Russians. He likely found out in the first two months that such a rumor was untrue. What has he been doing ever since? God knows what but he has a lot to hide from now that he has come to the end with no evidence of collusion.

What evidence do you have that Mueller -------> //// likely found out in the first two months that such a rumor was true ? ////// Do you have a link or a copy of Mueller's findings to support your supposition, or are you just stating your biased 'opinion' ?
 

marke

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What evidence do you have that Mueller -------> //// likely found out in the first two months that such a rumor was true ? ////// Do you have a link or a copy of Mueller's findings to support your supposition, or are you just stating your biased 'opinion' ?

I don't need to prove Mueller does not have any evidence of Trump/Russian collusion. I'll just wait until he proves it himself.
 

Logician Man

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I don't need to prove Mueller does not have any evidence of Trump/Russian collusion. I'll just wait until he proves it himself.

You can't prove Mueller does not have any evidence of Trump/Russian collusion. ( fact )
 
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