The Mob

[HK.227]

Obviously I'm not trying to get the opinions of those who think their opponents are blood-drinking satanists here.

Good work Kato!

 

[skeptic llc]

This story might interest you and lend some support to the post I made about how race replaced focus on the elite. It is applicable to events in the US wrt the Trump situation. Some food for thought regarding engaging with Trumps base.

Some years ago , I was a member of a different forum and at the time there was a surge in xenophobia in the country( the UK ) due to a rise in immigration from eastern Europe. A political party called the British National Party ( BNP ) started to both stoke the fires and seek the support from doing so with groing numbers of new members. The lefties on that forum used to hate me engaging in debates with BNP members and thought a no platform/no engagement policy was they way to deal with them. I disagreed and thought the strategy was sure to backfire so I ignored the moans and constant PMs for me to desist.

My argument was that because I lived in an area, predominantly white working class, I actually understood that some of the grievances BNP members expressed were valid, even if they had been duped into blaming it on the wrong people, the immigrant community. The danger in not acknowledging this and dismissing everything as being borne of racism is a mistake imo and a mistake that leads to further extremism that then becomes entrenched. This explains the situation with the Trump base imho. and that's why it is crucial to maintain the dialogue even in the most difficult of circumstances. The horse may have already bolted on both sides of the Atlantic with the embracing of Trump and the insanity of Brexit but we can only keep trying to halt the ugly lurch towards racist/fascist type movements as they appear in a hope to undermine them.

I used to tell the BNP members that their political party was, in fact ,an illegal outfit, which it was. They replied that if this was the case, instead of the media often condemning them the state would just enforce a closing down operation to put an end to them. I told them that this will happen only when they have enough numbers to actually effect the general elections but for the time being they are serving as a useful vent for the effects of immigration. Some years later they gained significant support in the elections and the government moved to close them down and that was that.

The noral of the story to me is that it is better to engage with those whose views you dislike, or may even hate, in order to ward off a worse situation further down the road. We got Brexit, you got Trump., let's hope it doesn't get any worse before it gets better and dialogue is the only way forward imho

Thanks, and I appreciate the perspective. Ordinarily I agree. In this case, though, I think it may be like trying to engage in a serious discussion with a person who earnestly believes in evil prancing unicorns causing all the nations problems, and that if anyone disagrees they must be in on the conspiracy. There is a level of delusion that makes constructive conversation impossible. That does not mean none of their grievances are real, just that they are outside the reach of reality. Blood drinking satanists molesting kids, with only Trump the messiah to stop them?

 

[skeptic llc]

Beats thinking for yourself...

Ahh, in Trumpland seeking actual information is a sign you can't think for yourself? Got it.

 

[skeptic llc]

There's a problem. Trusting Google

It would actually be evaluating the people who did the studies, Google is a search tool that enables you to find them.

 

[skeptic llc]

Who, exactly, do you consider as being in (a member of?) “the Trump mob”?

Not sure I thought so far as to pin it down precisely, but I'll go with anyone who still supports him. Close enough for government work.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not sure I thought so far as to pin it down precisely, but I'll go with anyone who still supports him. Close enough for government work.

On any issue position or only ones with which you happen to disagree? I guess that it is “close enough for government work” to consider anyone who still supports Biden to be called in (a member of?) the Biden mob.

 

[phoenix2020]

75% people deluded by misinformation
25% moderate to severe racists triggered by Obama in 2008 and never subsequently chilled out

That's my best guess anyhow.

 

[oneworld2]

Thanks, and I appreciate the perspective. Ordinarily I agree. In this case, though, I think it may be like trying to engage in a serious discussion with a person who earnestly believes in evil prancing unicorns causing all the nations problems, and that if anyone disagrees they must be in on the conspiracy. There is a level of delusion that makes constructive conversation impossible. That does not mean none of their grievances are real, just that they are outside the reach of reality. Blood drinking satanists molesting kids, with only Trump the messiah to stop them?

No worries, I just thought I would drop it in anyway even if the landscape has changed , dramatically, in the decade since the events I was talking about took place.

I think we should also consider that in the age of information/social media the preferred perspectives of the elites that dominate our lives haven't enjoyed the virtual monopoly they held for so long and it is naive to believe they are not engaged in disinformation of their own. Their way is to divide and conquer, discredit and mislead, etc etc and white working class people fighting with black working class people will be the preferrd situation to poor people, regardless of colour, taking on the 1% to bring in a meaningful democtratic system.

How you break through the barriers of the people you are talking about is a valid point and the same dogmatical approach was seen in the BNP members I spoke about, though not to the same degree and, being in the UK, not armed to the teeth, which presents it's own unique danger.

It looks likely that the USA will endure a time of widespread civil unrest with many acts of violence and political polarization to spur it all on.

 

[Oborosen]

Obviously I'm not trying to get the opinions of those who think their opponents are blood-drinking satanists here. (Or the opinions of flat earthers, snake worshipers, etc.)

But for the rest of us, what is the primary source of this widespread madness? We are overrun with anti-freedom crazies, where did they come from?

No real widespread madness. Though the real problem on both sides comes from those that just don't have any true knowledge of what is going on. Though you also get agitators who like to latch on to whatever political/social movement they can dig into. Which can account for some of the more prevalent issues.

 

[VySky]

It would actually be evaluating the people who did the studies, Google is a search tool that enables you to find them.

Enables? Maybe, maybe not. If they don't like what you're searching for

 

[SMTA]

Don't confuse your inability to apply logic to real life makes you right about anything.

And there is a merciful God, you might want to ask forgiveness for judging your fellow man.

What a stupid and hypocritical post.

 

[skeptic llc]

On any issue position or only ones with which you happen to disagree? I guess that it is “close enough for government work” to consider anyone who still supports Biden to be called in (a member of?) the Biden mob.

No need to make up straw men. The issue is whether someone still supports Trump overall, despite the blatant corruption, indifference to anyone but himself, and, most of all, willingness to destroy democracy to stay in power. If so, then yes, they are part of the Trump mob -- whether they are the variant that tortures obvious facts to try to deny his nature and record, or the variant that acknowledges and celebrates these things about him.

 

[skeptic llc]

Enables? Maybe, maybe not. If they don't like what you're searching for

Did google take some nazis and russian bots seeking to destroy democracy off its search results? First I've heard about that.

 

[Bodi]

Obviously I'm not trying to get the opinions of those who think their opponents are blood-drinking satanists here. (Or the opinions of flat earthers, snake worshipers, etc.)

But for the rest of us, what is the primary source of this widespread madness? We are overrun with anti-freedom crazies, where did they come from?

There isn't "wide spread madness". There are 430 million people in the country and maybe hundreds of thousands are freaking Trump racist gun toting freaks that are consumed with madness. Say less than 0.0025 of the nation.

 

[skeptic llc]

There isn't "wide spread madness". There are 430 million people in the country and maybe hundreds of thousands are freaking Trump racist gun toting freaks that are consumed with madness. Say less than 0.0025 of the nation.

"One of the most striking poll findings has to do with QAnon, the baseless conspiracy theory that gained widespread attention this year as two of its backers were elected to Congress.

The poll asked respondents whether they believe that "a group of Satan-worshipping elites who run a child sex ring are trying to control our politics and media" — the false allegation at the heart of QAnon. While only 17% said it was true, another 37% said they didn't know.

"It's total bonkers," said Jackson, "and yet ... essentially half of Americans believe it's true or think that maybe it's true. They don't really know. And I think that's terrifying that half of Americans believe that could be the case." https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/9510...y-believe-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories