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The ignorance of the left on economics is astounding

Logical1

Logical1

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Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Logical1 said:
Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...
Your understanding of economics is hilarious. Please, tell us more. 😂
 
pocket aces said:
I love when people post stuff thinking they are smart, but when you are done reading it you feel dumber than before you saw it.
Click to expand...
Smart??? Just logical, and have common sense. Something sadly missing from the left. Their unicorns sucking on lollypops just wont work.
 
Logical1 said:
The ignorance of the left on economics is astounding
Click to expand...

Funny, the right's been pretty much in control of all aspects of the economy for well over forty years, cutting taxes and regulations willy nilly, implementing Ayn Rand here, Koch Brothers and ALEC there, adjudicating the notion that a corporation is a person, installing as much libertarianism as they can carry.

We are not here at this point because of some mysterious Democratic Party controlled economy.
You guys own this, all of it.
 
Logical1 said:
Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...
lcwmu.jpg
 
Deuce said:
I really would like to know when "people who work full time should be able to feed themselves" became a radical socialist idea.
Click to expand...

I was able to not only feed myself but also afford a tiny efficiency apartment on just PART TIME work back in 1978 as a student in college.
True, the food was pretty much subsistence level in both quality and quantity but it was food, and the apartment was smaller than a lot of kids bedrooms, maybe 120 or 135 square feet. But it was all mine.
 
Logical1 said:
Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

Absolutely false.

Because history proves you are wrong. You are the perfect example of simplistic thinking, so common to many on the right
Reality just doesn't work that way. All you have done is trot out an old conservative trope that just doesn't reflect real economics, you are embarrassing yourself.

1. Four years of Seattle's raising the minimum wage, overall, has been a resounding success. The operative word is 'overall', have their
been issues, yes, but it's nothing like you are characterizing it, that's just boogeyman fantasy. There are a lot of elderly folks working
in minimum wage jobs. As for jobs, there are more jobs in the restaurant and fast food business than there were before the hike, studies show.
Many restaurant owners threatened to move if the wage hike were to go into effect, but after it does, that just didn't happen, overall.


Price of a Big Mac TODAY
bigmac.jpg

I think you will find prices about the same in 2015 before the minimum wage hike or only slightly less owing to normal inflation.
In any event, as you can, this store did not go out of business, and the menu prices are very reasonable, what you'd expect for a McDonalds
in a big city.

2.
In 1950, the upper tax was 90% on the superrich, the cost of buying a car was 46% of a family's annual income, and the cost of a house was 2.2 times their income.
standard-50s.jpg

In 2014, upper tax bracket was 39.6%
the the cost of buying a car was 58% of a family's annual income, and the cost of a house was 5.6 times their income.

standard-2014.jpg


In short, logical1, you are just not logical. See, if you knew something about economics, you would realize that, on the subject of the minimum wage,
this idea that if you pay less, it will equal more jobs, is insane. The reason is if someone doesn't make a enough to live, he or she will apply for
government assistance to make up the difference, and that results in a net increase in terms of the overall cost to society. Jobs are driven by middle and lower class disposable income. If they have more, they will buy more stuff, and if they buy more stuff, the economy will be better.

Now, there is a threshold over which if you cross it, it will be too much of a burden, but no one is suggesting that. Repubs who say 'why not raise it to $50 an hour? " That's a strawman, no one is suggesting that. There is a sweet spot, and
dems now believe it is $15 per hour. The wage hike was calculated that a big mac's price would only increase about 5%, which it was deemed
that your average person would be willing to pay an extra 5% in order for those on minimum wage to be able to live, yet even that hasn't
really happened the prices are about the same as they were, or the increase is marginal. See, a 20% increase in the minimum wage, DOES NOT
equal a 20% increase in pricing, because wages are what 17% - 30% of expenses ?, (depending on the type of business, of course ) so the wage increase doesn't really effect the total cost bottom line for a business. I know, I've owned businesses.
 
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Deuce said:
I really would like to know when "people who work full time should be able to feed themselves" became a radical socialist idea.
Click to expand...
School drop outs that basically know very little should not expect high wages.
 
OscarLevant said:
Absolutely false.

Because history proves you are wrong. You are the perfect example of simplistic thinking, so common to many on the right
Reality just doesn't work that way. All you have done is trot out an old conservative trope that just doesn't reflect real economics, you are embarrassing yourself.

1. Four years of Seattle's raising the minimum wage, overall, has been a resounding success. The operative word is 'overall', have their
been issues, yes, but it's nothing like you are characterizing it, that's just boogeyman fantasy. There are a lot of elderly folks working
in minimum wage jobs. As for jobs, there are more jobs in the restaurant and fast food business than there were before the hike, studies show.
Many restaurant owners threatened to move if the wage hike were to go into effect, but after it does, that just didn't happen, overall.


Price of a Big Mac TODAY
View attachment 67301123

I think you will find prices about the same in 2015 before the minimum wage hike or only slightly less owing to normal inflation.
In any event, as you can, this store did not go out of business, and the menu prices are very reasonable, what you'd expect for a McDonalds
in a big city.

2.
In 1950, the upper tax was 90% on the superrich, the cost of buying a car was 46% of a family's annual income, and the cost of a house was 2.2 times their income.
View attachment 67301124

In 2014, upper tax bracket was 39.6%
the the cost of buying a car was 58% of a family's annual income, and the cost of a house was 5.6 times their income.

View attachment 67301125


In short, logical1, you are just not logical. See, if you knew something about economics, you would realize that, on the subject of the minimum wage,
this idea that if you pay less, it will equal more jobs, is insane. The reason is if someone doesn't make a enough to live, he or she will apply for
government assistance to make up the difference, and that results in a net increase in terms of the overall cost to society. Jobs are driven by middle and lower class disposable income. If they have more, they will buy more stuff, and if they buy more stuff, the economy will be better.

Now, there is a threshold over which if you cross it, it will be too much of a burden, but no one is suggesting that. Repubs who say 'why not raise it to $50 an hour? " That's a strawman, no one is suggesting that. There is a sweet spot, and
dems now believe it is $15 per hour. The wage hike was calculated that a big mac's price would only increase about 5%, which it was deemed
that your average person would be willing to pay an extra 5% in order for those on minimum wage to be able to live, yet even that hasn't
really happened the prices are about the same as they were, or the increase is marginal. See, a 20% increase in the minimum wage, DOES NOT
equal a 20% increase in pricing, because wages are what 17% - 30% of expenses ?, (depending on the type of business, of course ) so the wage increase doesn't really effect the total cost bottom line for a business. I know, I've owned businesses.
Click to expand...
Strange but you didnt mention that now most McDonald's have kiosks, and fewer employees.
 
Logical1 said:
Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...
You are absolutely correct. We need to continue to give the rich people more money. They have earned it. Forget about a "living wage" for everyone else. Forget about making things right for the other 99%. We need to continue to key on the 1% and work our tails off for them. Where would we be, if it wasn't for them, right?
 
OscarLevant said:
Absolutely false.

Because history proves you are wrong. You are the perfect example of simplistic thinking, so common to many on the right
Reality just doesn't work that way. All you have done is trot out an old conservative trope that just doesn't reflect real economics, you are embarrassing yourself.

1. Four years of Seattle's raising the minimum wage, overall, has been a resounding success. The operative word is 'overall', have their
been issues, yes, but it's nothing like you are characterizing it, that's just boogeyman fantasy. There are a lot of elderly folks working
in minimum wage jobs. As for jobs, there are more jobs in the restaurant and fast food business than there were before the hike, studies show.
Many restaurant owners threatened to move if the wage hike were to go into effect, but after it does, that just didn't happen, overall.


Price of a Big Mac TODAY
View attachment 67301123

I think you will find prices about the same in 2015 before the minimum wage hike or only slightly less owing to normal inflation.
In any event, as you can, this store did not go out of business, and the menu prices are very reasonable, what you'd expect for a McDonalds
in a big city.

2.
In 1950, the upper tax was 90% on the superrich, the cost of buying a car was 46% of a family's annual income, and the cost of a house was 2.2 times their income.
View attachment 67301124

In 2014, upper tax bracket was 39.6%
the the cost of buying a car was 58% of a family's annual income, and the cost of a house was 5.6 times their income.

View attachment 67301125


In short, logical1, you are just not logical. See, if you knew something about economics, you would realize that, on the subject of the minimum wage,
this idea that if you pay less, it will equal more jobs, is insane. The reason is if someone doesn't make a enough to live, he or she will apply for
government assistance to make up the difference, and that results in a net increase in terms of the overall cost to society. Jobs are driven by middle and lower class disposable income. If they have more, they will buy more stuff, and if they buy more stuff, the economy will be better.

Now, there is a threshold over which if you cross it, it will be too much of a burden, but no one is suggesting that. Repubs who say 'why not raise it to $50 an hour? " That's a strawman, no one is suggesting that. There is a sweet spot, and
dems now believe it is $15 per hour. The wage hike was calculated that a big mac's price would only increase about 5%, which it was deemed
that your average person would be willing to pay an extra 5% in order for those on minimum wage to be able to live, yet even that hasn't
really happened the prices are about the same as they were, or the increase is marginal. See, a 20% increase in the minimum wage, DOES NOT
equal a 20% increase in pricing, because wages are what 17% - 30% of expenses ?, (depending on the type of business, of course ) so the wage increase doesn't really effect the total cost bottom line for a business. I know, I've owned businesses.
Click to expand...

Using the typical burger price analogy (% of labor to make/serve a burger) ignores some very important things. One of them is that each ingredient of that burger also includes the labor costs to produce and deliver it. Thus, not only the labor costs to make/serve that burger go up (17% to 30%), but so do the costs of each ingredient being used to make it.

Another is that a laborer must add more value to the employer than it costs them or that position (job) will disappear. Arbitrarily more than doubling the cost of every entry level worker does not double their output (value to their employer).
 
Logical1 said:
Smart??? Just logical, and have common sense. Something sadly missing from the left. Their unicorns sucking on lollypops just wont work.
Click to expand...

Yes, we need to learn economics from the right. Tell us a little bit more about how great trickle down economics works! :ROFLMAO: :LOL:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Using the typical burger price analogy (% of labor to make/serve a burger) ignores some very important things. One of them is that each ingredient of that burger also includes the labor costs to produce and deliver it. Thus, not only the labor costs to make/serve that burger go up (17% to 30%), but so do the costs of each ingredient being used to make it.

Another is that a laborer must add more value to the employer than it costs them or that position (job) will disappear. Arbitrarily more than doubling the cost of every entry level worker does not double their output (value to their employer).
Click to expand...
So what you are saying is that people need to accept not having a "living wage" so that we can eat cheap burgers, right? .................and the rich continue to have their Filet Mignon and Lobster every evening!
 
Logical1 said:
Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

There are not many certainties in life, but here is one certainty -- You definitely ain't working on a Phd in Economics.

If CEOs weren't so greedy, there would be absolutely no problem paying fast-food employees $15 per hour.

And even if CEOs are greedy as hell, there still is no problem paying fast-food employees $15 per hour.
 
Logical1 said:
School drop outs that basically know very little should not expect high wages.
Click to expand...

No, but they should not be expected to live in poverty, either.

Anyone willing to work 40 hours per week in this country should be able to live comfortably. We are the wealthiest country in the world, it's pure insanity that millions of people are still making $7.25 per hour.
 
Luckyone said:
So what you are saying is that people need to accept not having a "living wage" so that we can eat cheap burgers, right? .................and the rich continue to have their Filet Mignon and Lobster every evening!
Click to expand...

Nope, what I am saying is that entry level jobs should not be expected to support a family of 4 (assuming that is what you meant by having a “living wage”).

Why do you suppose that no state now has a $15/hour MW when all have the power to do so?
 
Logical1 said:
Lets take the top and bottom of economics here in the US. The left and Biden want to tax the hell out of businesses making more than $400,000. If he would, they will raise the price of their product, and even the most poor will have to pay the higher price.

Then the low end. Biden and the left wingers want a $15 minimum wage for burger flippers so they can have a "living wage". What they dont understand is working in a burger joint IS NOT a life's work. It is for teenagers, and maybe old people to add to their income. If you force $15 wages on a burger joint, one of three things will happen. They will go out of business, they will fire people and go to kiosks, or burgers will cost $7.50.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...
You really need to change your nick, there is no logic in you!

Here is the tax table under Obama (which will be slightly different under Biden as he has promised only to raise taxes on those making more than $400,000, meaning those under that amount will be paying the same taxes they are paying now under Trump.

Table 1. 2015 Taxable Income Brackets and Rates
�
RateSingle FilersMarried Joint FilersHead of Household Filers
Source: Author’s calculations.
10%$0 to $9,225$0 to $18,450$0 to $13,150
15%$9,225 to $37,450$18,450 to $74,900$13,150 to $50,200
25%$37,450 to $90,750$74,900 to $151,200$50,200 to $129,600
28%$90,750 to $189,300$151,200 to $230,450$129,600 to $209,850
33%$189,300 to $411,500$230,450 to $411,500$209,850 to $411,500
35%$411,500 to $413,200$411,500 to $464,850$411,500 to $439,000
39.6%$413,200+$464,850+$439,000+


Here are the tax tables under TrumpL

Table 1. 2020 Tax Brackets and Rates
�
RateFor Single Individuals, Taxable Income OverFor Married Individuals Filing Joint Returns, Taxable Income OverFor Heads of Households, Taxable Income Over
10%$0$0$0
12%$9,875$19,750$14,100
22%$40,125$80,250$53,700
24%$85,525$171,050$85,500
32%$163,300$326,600$163,300
35%$207,350$414,700$207,350
37%$518,400$622,050$518,400
Source: Internal Revenue Service


As far as your fear of higher burger costs, let me ask you: how much were you paying for burgers in 2015 and how much less are you paying for burgers now?

Why don't you read this article:

Rising Burger Prices Could Change Consumer Perceptions

Average cost from Top 500 restaurant chains has increased $1.33 since 2015, says Technomic

Simply stated, the cost of a burger has gone up under Trump over 13% than under Obama. You think that with Biden only raising taxes on the over $400,000 earners your burger is going to go up over $300%?\

By the way, the average wage now being paid to employees of a burger joint is $9.34. If it goes up to $15, that means an increase of 30% in wages. The price of a bacon cheeseburger at Burger king is $1.49. If wages go up 30%, the price of that burger will rise from $1.49 to $1.94 (not up to $7.50). That is not something you are willing to pay for having people earn living wages?

I ask you the same question you asked of us all. Why is it so hard for YOU to understand?

I have a suggestion for you that will FIX the problem. Use your brain.
 
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Since burger flipping wont pay for a REAL LIFE, what kinds of jobs can you jump to, that do pay for a real life?

THERE ARE NONE. There are only side jumps. Even those with new degrees, often have to get flunky jobs. There are no more apprenticeships. You cant go to school and live, on part time.
 
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