The height of hypocrisy......

[Navy Pride]

LMAO nice :spin: Number 1, You said the mother has nothing to do with it, to which it was pointed out that the mother, as his legal guardian, has everything to do with the case. Number 2, show me where I said the prosecutor HAS to do it, because you cant.

Navy, I already agreed that it's hyprocritical. However, you cannot accept the reason's why there was a plea. Is it up to you to decide, or the prosecutor on the case? The prosecutor has spoken.

The point I am trying to get accross to you is that if the prosecutor did not agree to a plea bargain there would not be one........I don't care what the mother says........

 

[aps]

When you have a crime it is not up to the victums family as to whether it should be prosecuted or not..............It is up to the prosecutor in the locale.......

So your saying if someone murders someone else if the family of the victum wants to plea bargain to avoid a trial because she did not want her family to have to go through it that the prosecutor has to do that?

Give me a break................

Navy Pride, each situation is different. 95% of cases are decided via a plea bargain. Did you know that? The MOTHER has every right to ask the prosecutor for a plea bargain. She is the legal guardian of the kid. The defense had asked for a plea bargain and the prosecutor rejected it. When your client comes to you and asks for a plea bargain, it would be very rare that, in a case like this that did not involve murder, a prosecutor would deny that request. No one other than his legal guardians would have been able to ask for a plea bargain. So your bringing up other family members is irrelevant.

aps, I am surprised at you....That is a very sexist remark.......In this country the laws should be applied evenly whether the victum is male or female.........

I agree with you.

I had a friend in high school who got angry with her boyfriend, with whom she was having sex (and she was younger than 17), and it was CONSENSUAL. She went to her parents and told them, and they went to the authorities. The friend subsequently made up with the boyfriend, and the mother saw how devastated the man's family was, and they went to prosecutor and asked for the charges to be dropped. Case dismissed.

You have no idea what happened. Remember, the KID did not go the authorities--it was his friend. And, why would you ignore the fact that it would be pretty difficult to force a man to perform if he thought he was being raped. Look at how many rape cases involve a man being raped (excluding jail). I stand by this assertion.

 

[aps]

The point I am trying to get accross to you is that if the prosecutor did not agree to a plea bargain there would not be one........I don't care what the mother says........

*Sigh* Navy Pride, I have a friend who is a prosecutor in Brooklyn, New York. Trust me, if the client wants a plea bargain, the chances are excellent that a plea bargain will be reached.

 

[mixedmedia]

First of all the boy was 14......That said you can say anything you want but in the eyes of the law its still rape and if it was a role reversal a guy would be locked up forever.....

This is not true. Only if a child is under the age of twelve does a convicted child molester face life in prison. Not even then in every case. At least that is how the law is written here in Florida.

 

[mixedmedia]

Plus, this case is getting a lot of attention, but plea bargains in cases of child molestation that result in light sentences for the offenders are actually quite common. You have no basis for attacking this one case other than because you saw it hyped up on FOX, NavyPride.

 

[aps]

Plus, this case is getting a lot of attention, but plea bargains in cases of child molestation that result in light sentences for the offenders are actually quite common. You have no basis for attacking this one case other than because you saw it hyped up on FOX, NavyPride.

I don't mind him getting so upset about the outcome, mixedmedia, but he blames the plea bargain on the judge being a liberal. He also believes that the kid must have been raped. Yes, in the eyes of the law, that is rape, but it sounds to me like the sex was consensual.

Regardless, that woman is a $1 whore.

 

[mixedmedia]

I don't mind him getting so upset about the outcome, mixedmedia, but he blames the plea bargain on the judge being a liberal. He also believes that the kid must have been raped. Yes, in the eyes of the law, that is rape, but it sounds to me like the sex was consensual.

Regardless, that woman is a $1 whore.

By far most child molestation cases are consensual. Only the state does not recognize consent for children, thus it is called rape. Of course, it is ridiculous to try and bring liberal or conservative politics into this, but we are talking about NavyPride here. :roll:

Personally, I believe the woman should have done some jail time. But like the law, I do draw a line between molestation of children in their teens and those under twelve. Specifically because those who molest children under the age of twelve are most likely to be true pedophiles, thus the ones most dangerous to our children.

 

[Navy Pride]

Navy Pride, each situation is different. 95% of cases are decided via a plea bargain. Did you know that? The MOTHER has every right to ask the prosecutor for a plea bargain. She is the legal guardian of the kid. The defense had asked for a plea bargain and the prosecutor rejected it. When your client comes to you and asks for a plea bargain, it would be very rare that, in a case like this that did not involve murder, a prosecutor would deny that request. No one other than his legal guardians would have been able to ask for a plea bargain. So your bringing up other family members is irrelevant.



I agree with you.

I had a friend in high school who got angry with her boyfriend, with whom she was having sex (and she was younger than 17), and it was CONSENSUAL. She went to her parents and told them, and they went to the authorities. The friend subsequently made up with the boyfriend, and the mother saw how devastated the man's family was, and they went to prosecutor and asked for the charges to be dropped. Case dismissed.

You have no idea what happened. Remember, the KID did not go the authorities--it was his friend. And, why would you ignore the fact that it would be pretty difficult to force a man to perform if he thought he was being raped. Look at how many rape cases involve a man being raped (excluding jail). I stand by this assertion.

The point again that I am trying to make with you is that rape is a crime and no matter what happened and what the mother of the victum wanted it is up to the prosecutor to take the case to trial...Not any relative...........

The woman's attorney said if she went to jail that she was so pretty she would be eaten alive........Give me a frigging break.......Put her ass in jail and make her pay for her crime like you would a man......

 

[Navy Pride]

*Sigh* Navy Pride, I have a friend who is a prosecutor in Brooklyn, New York. Trust me, if the client wants a plea bargain, the chances are excellent that a plea bargain will be reached.

So what your saying for example that if in the Scott Peterson case if the family of Staci wanted a plea bargain that the prosecutor would have to do it because they are the victims family..........I don't think so.........

 

[Navy Pride]

This is not true. Only if a child is under the age of twelve does a convicted child molester face life in prison.

Who said anything about life in prison?

 

[Navy Pride]

By far most child molestation cases are consensual. Only the state does not recognize consent for children, thus it is called rape. Of course, it is ridiculous to try and bring liberal or conservative politics into this, but we are talking about NavyPride here. :roll:

Personally, I believe the woman should have done some jail time. But like the law, I do draw a line between molestation of children in their teens and those under twelve. Specifically because those who molest children under the age of twelve are most likely to be true pedophiles, thus the ones most dangerous to our children.

What a crock that is...........A child can not consent to sex with and adult......Its against the law.....its rape..........

You are talking about 2 different crimes........moslestation and rape......
Although both are horrific, there is a big difference...........

 

[mixedmedia]

Who said anything about life in prison?

First of all the boy was 14......That said you can say anything you want but in the eyes of the law its still rape and if it was a role reversal a guy would be locked up forever.....

Ummmm, you did, ya big lug.

 

[mixedmedia]

What a crock that is...........A child can not consent to sex with and adult......Its against the law.....its rape..........

You are talking about 2 different crimes........moslestation and rape......
Although both are horrific, there is a big difference...........

No, NavyPride, you are the one who has no clue what you are talking about. Big surprise there.

As for your first statement, you are simply repeating what I said, but with a significantly larger amount of periods.

Child molestation as long as it involves some sort of penetration, including oral sex, is considered rape, or more accurately, sexual battery, whether it is consensual or not. There are statutes apart from those we are talking about on this thread for those who violently rape children by force. Maybe you're under the impression that child molestation is fondling or something? Well, you would be wrong. The term child molestation covers any sexual exploitation of a child.

The fact is most children who are molested are seduced not forced. That was my point. And that is obviously so in the LeFave case. But the state quite rightly views it as rape because we have accepted that children are not emotionally or mentally capable of carrying on sexual relationships with adults.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Who said anything about life in prison?

You did! Amnesia? Dimensia? What?

Originally Posted by Navy Pride
First of all the boy was 14......That said you can say anything you want but in the eyes of the law its still rape and if it was a role reversal a guy would be locked up forever.

 

[aps]

So what your saying for example that if in the Scott Peterson case if the family of Staci wanted a plea bargain that the prosecutor would have to do it because they are the victims family..........I don't think so.........

Sex is comparable to murdering a wife and her unborn child? Okaaaaaaaaaaay. No one has said that the sex was NOT consensual. Yes, the statute labels it as rape, but that doesn't mean that the kid was forced.

I asked my prosecutor friend about this. He said that the "state" is the plaintiff, but that if the state's witness (the kid) does not want to testify, they normally do not make the witness take the stand (although they have subpeona power to make him take the stand, although they cannot make him talk). This case isn't that important, although it is to you.

I agree. The reason that she would be eaten alive in jail is a frigging joke. That's a reason to ask for a plea bargain? She deserves to eaten alive in jail. We reap what we sew.

But don't tell me that a person's legal guardian does not have rights. It is clear that she was abiding by her son's wishes.

 

[mixedmedia]

I asked my prosecutor friend about this. He said that the "state" is the plaintiff, but that if the state's witness (the kid) does not want to testify, they normally do not make the witness take the stand (although they have subpeona power to make him take the stand, although they cannot make him talk). This case isn't that important, although it is to you.

This is absolutely true. People don't realize the number of these cases coming through our courtrooms ever year. Bargains are made in most of them. Our justice system is overrun with crimes even more heinous than child sexual abuse. Best not to ponder why, because it makes the conservatives upset. But when a high profile case hits the spotlight, watch out, it becomes everyone's favorite outrage of the week. I guess all the other kids molester's just don't have the same appeal as a pretty platinum blonde.

 

[Navy Pride]

Sex is comparable to murdering a wife and her unborn child? Okaaaaaaaaaaay. No one has said that the sex was NOT consensual. Yes, the statute labels it as rape, but that doesn't mean that the kid was forced.

I asked my prosecutor friend about this. He said that the "state" is the plaintiff, but that if the state's witness (the kid) does not want to testify, they normally do not make the witness take the stand (although they have subpeona power to make him take the stand, although they cannot make him talk). This case isn't that important, although it is to you.

I agree. The reason that she would be eaten alive in jail is a frigging joke. That's a reason to ask for a plea bargain? She deserves to eaten alive in jail. We reap what we sew.

But don't tell me that a person's legal guardian does not have rights. It is clear that she was abiding by her son's wishes.

[QUOTESex is comparable to murdering a wife and her unborn child?][/QUOTE]

Rape is a very serious crime........I am surprised that any woman would dismiss it as trivial.........

But don't tell me that a person's legal guardian does not have rights. It is clear that she was abiding by her son's wishes.[/

Again aps we disagree on this...when a felony or capital crime is committed the family of the victums wishes should be taken into consideration but it up to the prosecuting office and no one else whether a plea bargain should be submitted and ultimately the judge to make the final decision not any relative...........

 

[aps]

Rape is a very serious crime........I am surprised that any woman would dismiss it as trivial.........

I agree with you that it is a very serious crime. I have a hard time thinking that if he was being raped, his friend who was driving the car wouldn't have pulled over or would have called the police. That's all I am saying. Yes, by statute it is considered rape. BTW, I had consensual sex when I was 16 with my boyfriend of 2 years. While that would technically be considered statutory rape, that man never ever raped me.

Again aps we disagree on this...when a felony or capital crime is committed the family of the victums wishes should be taken into consideration but it up to the prosecuting office and no one else whether a plea bargain should be submitted and ultimately the judge to make the final decision not any relative...........

I agree. The state is the prosecutor's client.

The plea agreement process is where the prosecutor, the defense, and the judiciary agree to bypass trial and exchange a guilty plea for the same or in some cases a lesser sentence. The plea agreement process is a vital one to our judicial system; 95% of the cases in the nation are adjudicated by plea negotiations. Plea bargaining is important because it allows the prosecutor to process more cases in less time, and to save judicial resources.

The court should accept a plea negotiated by the parties when the interest of the public in the effective administration of justice would be served.

http://www.attorneygeneral.org/plea.html

I think if the facts in this case were truly heinous and the legal guardian of the kid did not ask for a plea bargain, the prosecutor would not have agreed to the plea bargain.
_____

Okay, Navy Pride, in further investigating this case, please see the following website which shows the document that they used as probable cause to arrest the bimbo.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628042teach3.html

On page 3, they note that the defendant had "consensual" sex with the victim. On page 4, it states that the mother overheard her son bragging about having sex with a hot teacher. Further, it shows how the kid willingly went to the defendant's house. It doesn't indicate that he went there by force.

NOT rape in the true sense of the word.

 

[Navy Pride]

I agree with you that it is a very serious crime. I have a hard time thinking that if he was being raped, his friend who was driving the car wouldn't have pulled over or would have called the police. That's all I am saying. Yes, by statute it is considered rape. BTW, I had consensual sex when I was 16 with my boyfriend of 2 years. While that would technically be considered statutory rape, that man never ever raped me.



I agree. The state is the prosecutor's client.

The plea agreement process is where the prosecutor, the defense, and the judiciary agree to bypass trial and exchange a guilty plea for the same or in some cases a lesser sentence. The plea agreement process is a vital one to our judicial system; 95% of the cases in the nation are adjudicated by plea negotiations. Plea bargaining is important because it allows the prosecutor to process more cases in less time, and to save judicial resources.

The court should accept a plea negotiated by the parties when the interest of the public in the effective administration of justice would be served.

http://www.attorneygeneral.org/plea.html

I think if the facts in this case were truly heinous and the legal guardian of the kid did not ask for a plea bargain, the prosecutor would not have agreed to the plea bargain.

It doesn't matter if his friend is driving the car.......Its still against the law.....What if it was a 25 year old guy and a 14 year old girl and the girl's friend was driving the car....Its the same...........its still breaking the law......You want it both ways.................The law should treat both sexes equally..do you think if it was a guy and a 14 year old girl there would have been a plea bargain.................

 

[aps]

It doesn't matter if his friend is driving the car.......Its still against the law.....What if it was a 25 year old guy and a 14 year old girl and the girl's friend was driving the car....Its the same...........its still breaking the law......You want it both ways.................The law should treat both sexes equally..do you think if it was a guy and a 14 year old girl there would have been a plea bargain.................

If the facts were the exact same as the ones in this case except the sexes were changed, yes, I would think that there would be a plea bargain.

 

[mixedmedia]

It doesn't matter if his friend is driving the car.......Its still against the law.....What if it was a 25 year old guy and a 14 year old girl and the girl's friend was driving the car....Its the same...........its still breaking the law......You want it both ways.................The law should treat both sexes equally..do you think if it was a guy and a 14 year old girl there would have been a plea bargain.................

Yes, most likely there would be a plea bargain.

 

[26 X World Champs]

do you think if it was a guy and a 14 year old girl there would have been a plea bargain.

Yes, there would be a very high percentage chance there would be a plea bargain if statutory rape had been committed.

I read your posts and you write them as if this was FORCED RAPE, and that is as you like to say, "patently untrue."

Plus, you seem to have avoided answering the specific rebuttals to your outrageous claim, written by you in the 2nd post you made in this thread (that you started), post #5 in the thread:

And a very bleeding heart liberal judge.

You twisted the truth, again, to serve your hate liberal agenda and when challenged by most of the responders in this thread you "cut and run".

So Navy, please prove to us that this judge was:

1. Liberal
2. Has a history of accepting plea bargains that support a liberal bias
3. That he accepted this specific plea bargain presented to him by the prosecutor on behalf of the victim's family because he's a "lefty."

Or will you "cut and run" some more?

 

[sissy-boy]

This is the height of hypocrisy........If a 25 year old man did this to a 14 year old girl they would lock him up and throw the key away.......This female pedophile gets probation..........

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/22/teachersex.plea.ap/index.html


Lafave gets three years of house arrest

Tuesday, November 22, 2005; Posted: 12:29 p.m. EST (17:29 GMT)


TAMPA, Florida (AP) -- A female teacher pleaded guilty Tuesday to having sex with a 14-year-old middle school student, avoiding prison as part of a plea agreement.

Debra Lafave, 25, whose sensational case made tabloid headlines, will serve three years of house arrest and seven years' probation. She pleaded guilty to two counts of lewd and lascivious battery.

The former Greco Middle School reading teacher apologized during the hearing, saying that "I accept full responsibility for my actions."

The boy told investigators the two had sex in a classroom at the Greco school, located in Temple Terrace near Tampa, in her Riverview town house and once in a vehicle while his 15-year-old cousin drove them around Marion County.

If convicted at trial, she could have faced up to 15 years in prison on each count. The plea agreement also was designed to resolve similar charges pending in Marion County.

Her attorney, John Fitzgibbons, said in July that plea negotiations had broken off because prosecutors had insisted on prison time.

He said she planned to plead insanity at trial, claiming that emotional stress kept her from knowing right from wrong.

Copyright

Oh come one!! The kid is in LOVE with her! I think she should get off with probation. This is every hetero teenaged boy's DREAM.

 

[Navy Pride]

If the facts were the exact same as the ones in this case except the sexes were changed, yes, I would think that there would be a plea bargain.

So you would let a 25 year old man skate for raping a 14 year old girl?????

 

[26 X World Champs]

So you would let a 25 year old man skate for raping a 14 year old girl?????

Why must you constantly distort the truth? Are your points so weak that they cannot stand on their own merits?

This case was about STATUTORY RAPE. That is not the same thing as RAPE. Why must you twist the truth to make it sound like a RAPE was committed or why must you compare a real life case of Statutory Rape to your made up RAPE case?

Try the truth and facts for once or are you afraid that your argument will collapse, as usual under the scrutiny of the truth?

You seem to "cut and run" quite a bit Navy Pride?